hack squats are great done the platz way.
after trying everything, i noticed that my legs respond best to 20 rep sets. ( or higher )
my favorite exercise is sumo squats standing on two high objects to increase the ROM. i still try to use as much weight as possible.
after 5 sets of 20, my whole lower body is shaking. i am determined to try sets of 30, even 50 reps.
for deadlifts, i respond best to 8-10 reps. for calves, its always 20+ reps just like quads.
so this is the summary of how i train my legs.
[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
after trying everything, i noticed that my legs respond best to 20 rep sets. ( or higher )
my favorite exercise is sumo squats standing on two high objects to increase the ROM. i still try to use as much weight as possible.
after 5 sets of 20, my whole lower body is shaking. i am determined to try sets of 30, even 50 reps.
for deadlifts, i respond best to 8-10 reps. for calves, its always 20+ reps just like quads.
so this is the summary of how i train my legs.
[/quote]
This is how I train legs as well. My legs were decent until I did 5 sets of 30 for back squats and 6 sets of 20 for front squats. My legs in the past 5 months have increased more in size and shape than in all my years of lifting prior. It is all about finding what works for you.
What kind of weight are you guys using for these multiple sets of 20+ reps?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
What kind of weight are you guys using for these multiple sets of 20+ reps?[/quote]
Back when I trained this way, I got up to two sets of 20+ with 315.
I can remember an Iron Radio episode where Lowrey and Rob talked about from a purely hypertrophy standpoint, they didn’t think there was any actual need to go above 405–or at least that the hypertrophy gains above that level were marginal for naturals. Purely anecdotal, but seemed responsive.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
What kind of weight are you guys using for these multiple sets of 20+ reps?[/quote]
The most weight I’ve used for multiple sets of 20+ is 235 I believe. I’ve done 1 set of 20 with 315 and it destroyed me.
But more importantly, LOL @ this thread revival! I had totally forgotten about the great EthanX, and the half-dozen other names he went by in his time on this site. He may have been the most annoying poster we’ve ever had.
[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
after trying everything, i noticed that my legs respond best to 20 rep sets. ( or higher )
my favorite exercise is sumo squats standing on two high objects to increase the ROM. i still try to use as much weight as possible.
after 5 sets of 20, my whole lower body is shaking. i am determined to try sets of 30, even 50 reps.
for deadlifts, i respond best to 8-10 reps. for calves, its always 20+ reps just like quads.
so this is the summary of how i train my legs.
[/quote]
What kind of weight you use for 5-6 sets of 20
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
What kind of weight are you guys using for these multiple sets of 20+ reps?[/quote]
Back when I trained this way, I got up to two sets of 20+ with 315.
I can remember an Iron Radio episode where Lowrey and Rob talked about from a purely hypertrophy standpoint, they didn’t think there was any actual need to go above 405–or at least that the hypertrophy gains above that level were marginal for naturals. Purely anecdotal, but seemed responsive.[/quote]
If you could link to said episode it’d be much appreciated
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
What kind of weight are you guys using for these multiple sets of 20+ reps?[/quote]
I don’t go too heavy, mostly because going over 185 wears out my back far faster than my legs.
Like Envision, this is how I like to train legs too. Quads are a hybrid of type 1 and type 2 muscle. Weight bearing muscle tends to be type 1 for endurance over hypertophy & power like type 2. Every body is different.
It’s old news to me with so many screaming that you have to squat heavy or you will never ever grow forever until the flat earth ends!!!
I go heavy regularly but briefly and include squats for all the wonderful core stuff - especially the psoas group. But I like the Serge Nubret pump training I found here so much that I always go back to it. I have never been injured doing volume but got injured the fist couple years doing progressive heavy compounds.
The great Serge Nubret; Serge Nubret Pump Training
I’ve had a back injury for quite some time and have only recently been able to hit legs hard. Just wanted to say that I went from squatting 225x3 up to 275x10 full range of motion over the course of 3 months and gained absolutely zero size in my thighs. Up until the set of 10 with 275, I didn’t use reps over 5 or 6. I would have though that an increase in my projected max of 130lbs would have led to some size gains, but not so in my case.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]Gorillakiv83 wrote:
after trying everything, i noticed that my legs respond best to 20 rep sets. ( or higher )
my favorite exercise is sumo squats standing on two high objects to increase the ROM. i still try to use as much weight as possible.
after 5 sets of 20, my whole lower body is shaking. i am determined to try sets of 30, even 50 reps.
for deadlifts, i respond best to 8-10 reps. for calves, its always 20+ reps just like quads.
so this is the summary of how i train my legs.
[/quote]
What kind of weight you use for 5-6 sets of 20
[/quote]
this picture will make you understand what i mean when i say sumo squats.
i can do multiple sets of 20 deep reps with a 30 kg/66 pounds dumbbell.
i generally finish with a triple drop set and its even worse.
i dont have a squat rack so i had to be creative about leg exercises but it turned out to be a fascinating exercise.
i suggest you to try it at the end of your regular leg workout.
this is the exercise i am talking about.
i had seen it in pavel’s beyond bodybuilding.
Good old barbell back squats have been a bust for me unfortunately … I can do them and my form appears fine but for some reason I just get banged up after a few weeks on them - sharp pain down the side of my quads, particularly the left side and it renders me useless for any other quad training for weeks or even months if I ignore it and don’t stop …
I can front squat all day every day no problem at all but feel like I’ve just run a 400m after every set … Just recently I’ve discovered the squat machine (as per above pic) and have absolutely fallen head over heals in love with it … I can load it up heavy and grind out set after set with absolutely no problems at all - expect plenty of the right kind of soreness in my quads…
Must admit I find it so strange how seemingly just the position of the bar or pads can make such a difference to the way the movement affects me, but whatever …
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
why don’t you just try it for 6 months and see if it gives you the results you are after[/quote]
I second this.
There are two main reasons why you’d want to do squats for bodybuilding:
-
Being a heavy compound movement they produce some pretty major hormone effects (GH, Test, etc.) Obviously if you’re on assistance that’s a lot less relevant, which is why many top bodybuilders aren’t as excited about them.
-
Building the muscles used while squatting, this will be heavily influenced by your stance and style so make sure you’re doing them in a bodybuilding fashion rather than a powerlifting fashion. (stance, toe angle, bar placement and so on)
The rep range you use is going to have a big impact on the results you get. Generically, low reps (1-3) are going to build mostly strength, mid ranges (4-6) will build strength and sarcomere hypertrophy, while higher ranges 7-12 tend to build sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. It’s a continuum so you get some of each in all ranges but that’s the general idea.
For sarcomere hypertrophy you need to realize that with greater training age you need to work at higher percentages of your 1RM to get an adaptation response. (mechanism tends to be about mechanical tension) For sarcoplasmic hypertrophy this isn’t as critical and it’s more about achieving a good pump. (mechanism tends to be more about cellular swelling, also referred to as metabolic stress) In both modalities muscular damage, the third type of growth mechanism, will occur though since it tends to be highly related to the eccentric phase you’ll often see more of this with high intensity techniques which tend to be employed by bodybuilders (drop sets, rest pause, etc.)
The most likely answer is that your training isn’t properly designed to produce the results you say you’re looking for. Consider changing how you’re doing things before giving up on such a core exercise. Of course, other exercises can be valuable too and some form of regular rotation is advisable.
[quote]blue9steel wrote:
There are two main reasons why you’d want to do squats for bodybuilding:
-
Being a heavy compound movement they produce some pretty major hormone effects (GH, Test, etc.) Obviously if you’re on assistance that’s a lot less relevant, which is why many top bodybuilders aren’t as excited about them.
-
Building the muscles used while squatting, this will be heavily influenced by your stance and style so make sure you’re doing them in a bodybuilding fashion rather than a powerlifting fashion. (stance, toe angle, bar placement and so on)
[/quote]
Your point in #1 has been thoroughly debunked by hard science. This is simply not the case.
And I believe your point regarding the difference between pl and bb squats in #2 is highly overrated. Assuming we’re talking about raw powerlifting (these points may be more true in geared lifting), I believe that stance, toe angle, and bar placement will have little do with overall leg development. Aside from that, many powerlifters today use a moderate width stance, with toes pointed out, and a medium bar placement, much like what you’d expect to see a bodybuilder do. It’s what I do, and I’ve found it to be the most effective style of squat for me for both strength and size development.
You’re suggesting that bigger exercises don’t promote a stronger hormone response? That doesn’t match anything I’ve read, any sources for that?
My current understanding is that GH and Test increase for the first 30 minutes or so of exercise, then slowly decline till reaching their staring levels around an hour. Size of release is generally linked to the intensity of the exercise involved. Of course cortisol increases as well, faster in cardio than weight lifting, so around 30 minutes of jogging your Testosterone/Cortisol ratio starts becoming unfavorable while that limit is roughly an hour or so for weight lifting.
Well obviously there is a large variety in styles so it would depend on how much difference we’re talking about. Given that the quads have multiple attachment points and other muscles are involved it seems pretty likely that there is a difference between shoulder width and pushing your feet out to the edge of the rack. Sure, it’s not the most important thing and is behind %1RM and time under tension but it is relevant.
[quote]blue9steel wrote:
You’re suggesting that bigger exercises don’t promote a stronger hormone response? That doesn’t match anything I’ve read, any sources for that?
My current understanding is that GH and Test increase for the first 30 minutes or so of exercise, then slowly decline till reaching their staring levels around an hour. Size of release is generally linked to the intensity of the exercise involved. Of course cortisol increases as well, faster in cardio than weight lifting, so around 30 minutes of jogging your Testosterone/Cortisol ratio starts becoming unfavorable while that limit is roughly an hour or so for weight lifting.[/quote]
I admit I haven’t looked into it much for a long time, but my understanding is that while it’s true that there is an increase, and that it does actually scale with intensity, the total influence of the response is so minimal as to be completely negligible.
I’ve also heard other rumors that things were intentionally overplayed, along with “squatting will grow your arms”, as basically marketing techniques to persuade people to focus more on other lifts besides bench and curls.
[quote]blue9steel wrote:
There are two main reasons why you’d want to do squats for bodybuilding:
-
Being a heavy compound movement they produce some pretty major hormone effects (GH, Test, etc.) Obviously if you’re on assistance that’s a lot less relevant, which is why many top bodybuilders aren’t as excited about them.
-
Building the muscles used while squatting, this will be heavily influenced by your stance and style so make sure you’re doing them in a bodybuilding fashion rather than a powerlifting fashion. (stance, toe angle, bar placement and so on)
The rep range you use is going to have a big impact on the results you get. Generically, low reps (1-3) are going to build mostly strength, mid ranges (4-6) will build strength and sarcomere hypertrophy, while higher ranges 7-12 tend to build sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. It’s a continuum so you get some of each in all ranges but that’s the general idea.
For sarcomere hypertrophy you need to realize that with greater training age you need to work at higher percentages of your 1RM to get an adaptation response. (mechanism tends to be about mechanical tension) For sarcoplasmic hypertrophy this isn’t as critical and it’s more about achieving a good pump. (mechanism tends to be more about cellular swelling, also referred to as metabolic stress) In both modalities muscular damage, the third type of growth mechanism, will occur though since it tends to be highly related to the eccentric phase you’ll often see more of this with high intensity techniques which tend to be employed by bodybuilders (drop sets, rest pause, etc.)
The most likely answer is that your training isn’t properly designed to produce the results you say you’re looking for. Consider changing how you’re doing things before giving up on such a core exercise. Of course, other exercises can be valuable too and some form of regular rotation is advisable.[/quote]
Lol @ all the regurgitated bro science