I am fortunate enough to have a few friends I know IRL that have competed in powerlifting and pushed 700+ squats in competition, so I essentially learned most of my technique training from one of them.
He told me if I wanted to particularly go ATG, that I should just push my knees out as hard as I can on the descent while sitting back and be explosive going down/up to get the hamstring bounce reflex as he called it.
However, the other day I was working in the squat rack, and a guy with massive legs/calves who I later found out was an “Olympic Lifter” and previous “Powerlifter” before getting injured (He was using 495 ATG FRONT SQUATS FOR REPS ATG in front of me) and he told me something I’ve never learned before?
He was watching my form I guess, and on my 3rd set he told me I need to keep my back totally straight when going up and down on squats, otherwise I will get a spinal injury like he did, which ruined his career.
Is this true!??!
TL;DR : Do you need to have a straight back when going below parallel/ATG and not using the powerlifter sitting back stance?
Is there actually risk of spinal injury?
I’m so confused because my other friends never said anything about this, and I also watch Pat Mendes ATG squatting 800 pounds, and I can’t really tell if he’s exactly “keeping his back straight”, hes just going up and down pretty damn fast + has a buttwink.
It seems that a slight flexion or ‘wink’ of the pelvis/sacral spine can increase the tension and stability of the spine when going below parallel. It seems that there is a problem when one starts having rounding of the lumbar spine and up. Of course, if the tuck under is huge, the pelvis will pull on the back and make rounding just the same. Hope this makes sense.
Broz was asked about the butt wink on one of his videos, and his response was “It’s not a problem”.
I know that people often mistake the back going from large extension to smaller extension as flexion, which may be what this guy is seeing (not to say he doesn’t have experience).
Posting a video of you squatting would be good, cos the more experienced lifters on here will easily be able to see if you’ve got a problem or not.
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.[/quote]
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.[/quote]
why not do both?[/quote]
Actually, there is a good reason to do both. Some people experience more form break-down on multiple reps of a less-than-max weight, so it’s important to take a look at that. A near-max effort also tends to look different from a lighter weight as well. So yea, you’ll be well-served to post both.
Going balls to the wall on a Deadlift PR today (1x5) and I have my squats be Dynamic Effort on this day. Don’t really feel like going heavy on squats too…-.- haha
IMO: If your sacrum tilts under while going ATG, it’s not a problem. If your lumbar spine does it while going ATG, you should work on your mobility and not go ATG.
But people like Pat Mendes and others have been doing this for years and are strong as shit and have pro coaches, so they can get away with more than others. I really wouldn’t worry about it too much. Just work on moblity and be careful of how you feel and how low you squat.
He was watching my form I guess, and on my 3rd set he told me I need to keep my back totally straight when going up and down on squats, otherwise I will get a spinal injury like he did, which ruined his career.
Is this true!??!
[/quote]
Guys who have gotten fucked up like to “warn” people of their past. That doesn’t mean that YOU will get a broken back from squatting. I know a guy who was squatting heavy and he got into a good morning on the way up, he rounded his back and blew out a disk. What he should have done was ditch the lift and try again. Due to being a fucktard, he now can’t squat and tells everyone he see’s squatting that they will die a grizzy death by squatting…
Just make sure your form is gtg and carry on. Tell captain vertical squat thanks and do your thing.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.[/quote]
Here’s some real piece of advice: Either listen to your 700 squat buddy or your 500 front squat for reps buddy, fuck online randoms asking for video so they can give you their jackoff 8th grade level opinion.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.[/quote]
Here’s some real piece of advice: Either listen to your 700 squat buddy or your 500 front squat for reps buddy, fuck online randoms asking for video so they can give you their jackoff 8th grade level opinion.
lol idk, I only talked to that guy once in my life, however I keep seeing him around the gym. I think I’m gonna just keep doing what I was initially taught and what I see people on youtube doing all the time including Mendes Lawl. yeah man I couldnt believe my eyes,I felt like such a wimp.brb 405 front squat atg for 5 fast reps 495 for triples. mind=blown
Some people can squat with a bit of a butt-wink for years and be fine, others will injure themselves, others are somewhere in between. Same as deadlifting with a rounded back, some can do it safely, some can’t. I strongly believe that if you keep your spine neutral at all times during squatting you won’t hurt your spine, but you MAY be able to lift more with a little butt-wink…it’s more a question of risk levels to me.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Alright, I will take a video today of squatting. Do I have to use my heaviest loads for the video, or is something with just like 2 plates or so sufficient.[/quote]
Here’s some real piece of advice: Either listen to your 700 squat buddy or your 500 front squat for reps buddy, fuck online randoms asking for video so they can give you their jackoff 8th grade level opinion.[/quote]
You know he started this thread asking for advice in the first place, right? Should we have just ignored him? Was there any need to insult someone responding to a forum post asking for advice?
First off, we are talking strictly about front squats, right? I have decided to take the plunge and now state flatly that back and front squats are different, though related lifts. The heavier I go, the more upright I find I have to be. Problem with a FS is resisting spinal flexion, which is really hard.
A little forward lean unloads the hips and maximally toques the back, The big dude has it right. I stay extremely upright and only think about sitting back, not down. (This is mostly to counter my tendency to rock forward on my toes and you might not have to think this way.)
For back squats, with a bar, there is a similar issue, but as long as the spine stays neutral from this hips up, you can get quite a bit of forward lean safely. E.g. if you have the bar really low on the back. Let me reiterate, in both FS and BS the lift is isometric from the hips up. The limit of the lift is the ability to maintain isometric lockdown of the back and rarely are the legs a limiting factor at all (if they are, do steps ups, lunges, etc.).
The aim of the lift is transmission of power from the legs through the torso. It just so happens that your legs and back get a lot stronger faster with these lifts, but that is a side effect.
(Edit: Actually you will have to have at least some forward lean on a BS. It is an ugly lie that yo should stay completely vertical on a BS and doing so will cause you to badly munge the rest of the mechanics in the lift, mostly in the form of bad knee position.)
A lot of people do the butt wink from a BS (less often from FS) to get more momentum for the drive up – a lot like pulling your arm back before making a big shove. For moderate weights, this is an ok cheat. For heavier weights, they can’t recover neutral spine for the rest of the lift and are then predisposed to back injuries, either chronic (creeps up over weeks) or acute (blows out all at once), since the back is now effectively being wrenched from below by the hips and above by the load.
Thanks and yes it does, I was talking about back squats specifically. I wish I could do front squats but my damn torn bicep tendon refuses to cooperate. Insert tears here lawl. Anyways this was helpful and I will continue not worrying so much.
[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Thanks and yes it does, I was talking about back squats specifically. I wish I could do front squats but my damn torn bicep tendon refuses to cooperate. Insert tears here lawl. Anyways this was helpful and I will continue not worrying so much.[/quote]
shouldnt you be trolling bb.com? oh yeah you cant because you got banned.
. Don’t mean to sound like an idiot, just being honest because I’m trying to learn here. = )