Squat Much Weaker Than Deadlift

I recently started training with strength in mind and have raised my numbers on SQ/DL. My best DL (sumo) is 330x5. However my squat is much weaker - I can front squat 200x5 (maybe there is 10lb extra); I don’t think my back squat is much stronger - I did 225x3 and stopped though it wasn’t ME. I go slightly below PL-parallel depth on both.

What could I do to bring up my squat? What is my weak point? I find heavy back squatting incredibly taxing/uncomfortable on lower back (much more than deadlifts). Another problem I encounter is that as soon as I go below parallel, I lose lordosis even without weights. I looked at SquatRx video 1 where this problem was considered, stretched everything I could stretch and still see no improvement. I can do 12 single leg pistols all the way to the bottom if that’s any indication of balance/imbalance.

A big part in smaller squat numbers is probably psychological as I don’t have a training parter/spotter; when I have a good spotter on squat, I push much harder and stronger. But this element I can’t change easily.

Any advice other than squat more?

Your front squat to back squat numbers are VERY strange.

I can front squat about 315x3 and back squat 405x3.

Your numbers are really close together… Do you do much back squatting?

I’m not sure if this was infered, but you seem to do primarily sumo deadlifts, which is mostly hips and glutes, not much lower back.

I would guess that since you primarily sumo pull and front squat close to what you back squat, your lower back is weak.

from what i picked up on this topic is to keep ur head up and push ur neck into the bar keeping your lats and traps pulled back and tight. abs tight, go down keeping ur chest out keeping ur body straight, knees out push through the heels and throw ur hips into the lift on the way up. hope that helps

Squatting uses a much longer range of motion which is one reason why you feel so much more taxed. Also depending on the length of your femur, you may or may not have a mechanical advantage toward squatting vs. deadlifting. People with longer legs are better deadlifters, longer levers create greater forces. This is one reason why great squatters are short in height. If you compare the sumo deadlift you mention (which is even more limiting in ROM than a regular deadlift) and compare that with the squat, the difference in the distance of weight being used is alot.

I think you just need to squat more often and make sure your technique is correct. Your weights will pick up and overall you will be stronger. I had this same problem but in reverse. I have a good squat, but lame deadlift. When my deadlift went up, my squat did too. So I suspect this will happen for you too. Just my 2 cents.

Man, you have identical problems as I do. I stopped back squatting altogether because I’d always hurt my back with them. My squat/deadlift ratio is similarly screwed. Deads and front squats feel much more comfortable than back squats for me.

My solution: I just do more cleans and snatches and don’t worry about back squatting.

Hanley,

I did train FSq/OHSq exclusively for the past 3 month and threw in back squat once, so the “real” back squat is probably higher, though not by much. This might be part in my head, since FSq without a spotter feels “safer” than BSq. Even my “projected” back squat (FSq:BSq=.8-.85 I think was a “good ratio” mentioned somewhere) is considerably weaker than DL.

I also trained sumo only, though recently I pulled conventional, did 275x6 and had a bit left in the tank. I started doing pull-throughs semi-regularly, but the low pulley is limited by 160lb which lets me do 8 reps and I can’t go heavier. I’ve never done GM, though. I couldn’t do conv DL heavy before because of the lower back. It got a bit stronger overall, but might be the weak point.

Maximum, I do have relatively long legs.

try doing box squats, and using a safety rack/cage, and leaning backwards more. I jumped from squatting about 225 to 325 using proper technique.

Are you using high bar position? I have a very similar problem and the switch to low bar position did wonders for my lifts and back.

I also stopped squatting barefoot and got some oly shoes.

My $0.02

HOV,
I don’t know how to clean/snatch with a barbell (though I do it sometimes with a dumbbell) and I don’t have access to a good coach. I want to incorporate back squats in my lifting, but this was mostly a question about a “weak point”. I progressed pretty fast on sumo and much less on squats.

Chewie,
I do keep the bar low (in the natural “valley” right below my traps). High-bar squats are unbearable for my neck.

A video (or at least pics) of you squatting would be really helpful.

I know this probably isn’t the answer you’re looking for, but it sounds like you just need to squat more and keep a steady eye on your form. IMO, most people have better DL numbers than SQ numbers when they are newer to training and, assuming you have average leveages for both, they tend to even out with time.

[quote]skor wrote:
I couldn’t do conv DL heavy before because of the lower back. It got a bit stronger overall, but might be the weak point.

Maximum, I do have relatively long legs.[/quote]

This is the reason.

Just work your back squat more. If you don’t do an exercise often you won’t be as strong. You may also be a more suited for rep work and your heavier weights are skewed. So your pryamid of lifts are much wider then say someone else who can do less reps at a given weight but produce a bigger 1RM then you.

Get some videos and it always feels heavy to me. 100kg on front squat feels as heavy as 145-150kg. The 100Kg doesn’t feel light, it just feels heavy from that point onwards. But it feels light for a few other mates.

My own DL is only 170Kg as I use a dynamic start in my OLifts but I have Snatched pulled 135kg for a triple and Cleaned pulled 160kg for triples.

Koing

[quote]Koing wrote:
skor wrote:
I couldn’t do conv DL heavy before because of the lower back. It got a bit stronger overall, but might be the weak point.

Maximum, I do have relatively long legs.

This is the reason.

Just work your back squat more. If you don’t do an exercise often you won’t be as strong. You may also be a more suited for rep work and your heavier weights are skewed. So your pryamid of lifts are much wider then say someone else who can do less reps at a given weight but produce a bigger 1RM then you.

Koing[/quote]

Absolutely,that’s worked for me.

[quote]skor wrote:
I recently started training with strength in mind and have raised my numbers on SQ/DL. My best DL (sumo) is 330x5. However my squat is much weaker - I can front squat 200x5 (maybe there is 10lb extra); I don’t think my back squat is much stronger - I did 225x3 and stopped though it wasn’t ME. I go slightly below PL-parallel depth on both.

What could I do to bring up my squat? What is my weak point? I find heavy back squatting incredibly taxing/uncomfortable on lower back (much more than deadlifts). Another problem I encounter is that as soon as I go below parallel, I lose lordosis even without weights. I looked at SquatRx video 1 where this problem was considered, stretched everything I could stretch and still see no improvement. I can do 12 single leg pistols all the way to the bottom if that’s any indication of balance/imbalance.

A big part in smaller squat numbers is probably psychological as I don’t have a training parter/spotter; when I have a good spotter on squat, I push much harder and stronger. But this element I can’t change easily.

Any advice other than squat more?[/quote]

Not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, but my experience is that most lower qualified lifters should be able to DL more than they squat, both raw of course. Most guys that I’ve worked with that were lower qualified could pull in upwards of 100+ lbs more than they could squat.

Squatting I believe is more of a neural adaptation exercise and therefor takes more time to develop than either DL or Bench. In time, if you’re training to increase your max, your squat number will go up and surpass your DL number or at least narrow the gap.

With regard to Front Squat and Back Squat numbers, most of the the highly qualified Olympic guys will be able to BSQ roughly 15%-20% over the best Clean, and most of those guys FSQ roughly 10-15% over their best Clean. So that basically puts the BSQ to be anywhere from 5%-10% greater than your best FSQ.

If it’s a Powerlifting Squat, I’d say the BSQ number will be much higher than the FSQ number, maybe by 20% or more, but that’s relative to the amount of time each lifter trains at both styles.

Not sure if that helps, but it should put some things in better perspective. The bottom line is to continue to train hard, and if your focus ultimately is to drive up your squat number, put more of a focus on that lift with your auxiliary exercises.

Man this is crazy, I have the exact same problem and our numbers on both lifts are very, very close. I also have long legs and I definitely feel this holds me back in the squat. I don’t have a problem handling the weight, it’s getting past parallel where I struggle b/c the range of motion is so great. I feel like I use up a lot of energy on my first few reps with a relatively heavy weight that I’m toast if I try for more with good form.

There’s a form of DB squat that Dan John wrote about in Men’s Health that I am seriously thinking of switching to. I’ll look up the name and post a link if I can find one, but it sounds very effective and might be a solution to the back squat woes.

Your front squat looks pretty good. I front squat 275x5, and I deadlift 425x5, so my front squat/deadlift ratio is similar to yours.

If your can’t maintain your lower back arch when you back squat, you’re almost guaranteed to herniate a disk (I did). It’s much easier to maintain the arch when you front squat, because you have to stay upright, and your hamstrings don’t stretch as much at the bottom.

If I were you, I’d stick to front squats until you get more flexible. I couldn’t back squat correctly until I could do the splits and get my head to my knee when doing hamstring stretches.

I increased my front squat by starting light and adding 10 lbs a week to my work sets. When it was getting hard to add 10 lbs, I started adding 5 lbs. When I can’t add any more weight, I decrease my work sets by ~10% and start the whole process again.

For me, the hard part of front squats is staying upright when I go into the hole, so I do a lot of core work. Heavy GMs and heavy ab work are great assistance exercises if your core is weak. Front squats got a lot easier as I increased my GM from 225x5 to 305x5.

Hope that helps.