Sprint Mechanics Problem!

Hey Thibs,

See your vacation went great :slight_smile:

I have a question which has been bothering me lately while running during football/soccer.

If I start running from very low tempo or standing still I am fine.

But when I am running at 40-50% of my speed, and I need to suddenly increase that to 100%, it feels like my technique is all wrong and my legs are running from underneath me if that makes sense.

Also there is tremendous strain that moment on my hamstrings, and I purposely do not attempt to accelerate maximal because I fear a pull.

Could this be a mobility flexibility issue? Or muscle imbalance? It feels like my upper body “leans backwards” so maybe weak abs? I hope you can help me (or anyone else) although I know this sounds really strange.

Thanks in advance!

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Hey Thibs,

See your vacation went great :slight_smile:

I have a question which has been bothering me lately while running during football/soccer.

If I start running from very low tempo or standing still I am fine.

But when I am running at 40-50% of my speed, and I need to suddenly increase that to 100%, it feels like my technique is all wrong and my legs are running from underneath me if that makes sense.

Also there is tremendous strain that moment on my hamstrings, and I purposely do not attempt to accelerate maximal because I fear a pull.

Could this be a mobility flexibility issue? Or muscle imbalance? It feels like my upper body “leans backwards” so maybe weak abs? I hope you can help me (or anyone else) although I know this sounds really strange.

Thanks in advance!
[/quote]

Without actually seeing you run it’s very hard for me to comment. It is either a technical issue (running mechanics are different when jogging vs. sprinting) or an imbalance in your posterior chain muscles (likely a lower back that is proportionally stronger than the hamstrings and glutes).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
Hey Thibs,

See your vacation went great :slight_smile:

I have a question which has been bothering me lately while running during football/soccer.

If I start running from very low tempo or standing still I am fine.

But when I am running at 40-50% of my speed, and I need to suddenly increase that to 100%, it feels like my technique is all wrong and my legs are running from underneath me if that makes sense.

Also there is tremendous strain that moment on my hamstrings, and I purposely do not attempt to accelerate maximal because I fear a pull.

Could this be a mobility flexibility issue? Or muscle imbalance? It feels like my upper body “leans backwards” so maybe weak abs? I hope you can help me (or anyone else) although I know this sounds really strange.

Thanks in advance!
[/quote]

Without actually seeing you run it’s very hard for me to comment. It is either a technical issue (running mechanics are different when jogging vs. sprinting) or an imbalance in your posterior chain muscles (likely a lower back that is proportionally stronger than the hamstrings and glutes).[/quote]

Thanks for the reply! I think a video for you to analyze would be a little to much to ask right? However, is it possible to detect such imbalance on my own, by comparing strength differences on different exercises?

And last what stranges and mobility drills do you recommend for soccer type of speed?

I hope I am not asking too much here! Thansk!

I’m not a coach, but to give me some credibility, I run a sub 11sec in the 100m sprint, I’m pretty sure it has nothing with muscle imbalance.

You should check your running form/technique, and I suggest you to read the articles/watch the videos and post on the www.posetech.forum (Pose Running method). I’m not a pose runner student or whatever, I’m a “pose” natural and after some research I’ve found that it’s the best method for runners with bad form, and I’m advising my friend to check this website if they want to start running.

Sprinting mechanics is the same as jogging mechanics, increase in leaning and stride frequency is what makes the difference, it will better explained on the website.

If your technique is already bad while jogging, then every error/bad form is magnified while going faster. You should start to check from the root.

I hope it will help!

[quote]koleg wrote:
I’m not a coach, but to give me some credibility, I run a sub 11sec in the 100m sprint, I’m pretty sure it has nothing with muscle imbalance.

You should check your running form/technique, and I suggest you to read the articles/watch the videos and post on the www.posetech.forum (Pose Running method). I’m not a pose runner student or whatever, I’m a “pose” natural and after some research I’ve found that it’s the best method for runners with bad form, and I’m advising my friend to check this website if they want to start running.

Sprinting mechanics is the same as jogging mechanics, increase in leaning and stride frequency is what makes the difference, it will better explained on the website.

If your technique is already bad while jogging, then every error/bad form is magnified while going faster. You should start to check from the root.

I hope it will help![/quote]

  1. Jogging and sprinting ARE different mechanically. The forward lean is a big mechanical difference as it changes muscle recruitment.

  2. Running below 70% of your max speed has a different motor pattern when it comes to muscle recruitment when compared to faster sprinting. Even though the external technique might not look drastically different, internally there is a difference.

I disagree about the difference between jogging and sprinting.

The leaning is there while jogging too. Or you couldn’t propell yourself forward. Gravity does the work.
Basically while running, you’re leaning forward, like falling, and your feet catch up to always be at the base of support, or you would end nose on the floor. It’s during the feet leaving the ground phase that a complex mechanism assist the gravity to propell your body forward, and it mainly involve the back leg and back muscle (I mean, from calf, hamstring, glute, lowerback, to back in an elastic way)

All you need to do is fall and catch up, people with bad mechanics usually try to push with there leg in the floor thinking it will propell them faster, but it’s a misconceptin of running mechanics, pushing will actually interfere with a movement who doesn’t need this (and we know that a fast sprinter is a relaxed one, who uses only the right amount of muscle and the less amount of energy to do the work, because tensing anything else than recquired will slow you down), and it will make your feet going to far backward, and bring numerous other problem that you see a lot.

Muscle recruitement is the same, but of course I agree that the SAME muscle are recruited a lot more while running faster to sustain a bigger lean /fastest feet catching up/recovery.

I’m sorry if it’s not easy to understand. My english kind of suck.
You should check the videos of Dr Romanov explaining this a lot better than me, and analysing some videos of sprinters, like jessie owens or michael johsnon. Michael Johnson is the reference in running mechanics, a lot of people made fun of him because he doesn’t run like other athlete who were teached to run the “coach know everything” way, with bullshits such as: drive your arms, or lift your knees, wich only interferes with the movement. He kept his natural unique style and it’s a perfect pose running demonstration.

Let us know if you do better WhiteCrow! ^^

My personal experience with sprint training is that the first 1-2 weeks of attempting really hard maximal sprinting suck and feel very awkward, perhaps close to what you described. After my legs become conditioned, sprinting feels much more natural.

I don’t know how much this has to do with “getting in shape” vs “natural self-correction of sprinting form”. There’s probably a bit of both involved.

That said, it’s a good idea to post a video somewhere to have your mechanics evaluated in case there’s something potentially injurious in the way you sprint. In my own case, I’ve had enough experience with the weirdness of sprinting after a layoff that I know it corrects after a few weeks and that it’s not my mechanics.

I don’t know much about good sprinting technique but I’m familiar with Romanov’s Pose running method. It was originally designed for distance running. As Koleg mentions, it does involve a forward lean. Whether or not this is the same as sprint mechanics I don’t know. I’ve used Pose for distance running. I only sprint (i.e., run fast) for conditioning and I use the same Pose technique I use for distance running - I just run faster.

Whitecrow: I thought this was interesting:

But when I am running at 40-50% of my speed, and I need to suddenly increase that to 100%, it feels like my technique is all wrong and my legs are running from underneath me if that makes sense.

This does sound a bit like you’re just trying to “jog fast.” If you feel as if you’re going to fall backwards when sprinting then perhaps looking into Pose would help as it emphasizes forward lean and contacting the ground with a midfoot or even forefoot strike. The lean comes from the ankles - don’t just run while bending at the waist. This is different than a heel strike that your average “jogger” uses. Practice Pose with just some slow running and maybe use it for distance work (I’m assuming you do some distance work for your soccer practice). If you’re already in a good position while running at a slow pace you’ll be able to maintain that good position as you accelerate. Once you get this down you can look into more advanced sprinting techniques if you feel they are necessary. But I believe Pose is a good place to start for learning proper running technique.

Also, there are some recent scientific studies that show that running with sport shoes (with cushion, air cushion and fancy stuffs like these) paradoxaly increase trauma in knee and hips.
I’ve readed it in a french science magazine (Science & vie - march 2010). And here are some other links:
From Harvard: http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/5BarefootRunning&TrainingTips.html
Another more complete article: Overcoming Gravity 2nd Edition & Progression Charts - Steven Low

Dr Romanov have talked a lot about this long time before these recent studies. Basically the human body has his natural “cushion” mechanism and act like a spring while running. It all starts from the feet, and through phsyological reflex and proprioception, and cushionned shoes just kind of “turn of” this natural mechanism, because we loose the sensitivity of the ground.

These studies show that “cushionned” shoes from the last 15 years who were made to avoid injury, actually gives more injuries to the athletes. The human body was made us this way after a long “darwin” evolution/selection, and trying to “customize” the body, thinking it will do a better job than nature, isn’t a good idea after all.

That’s why Dr.Romanov advises: you should run barefoot, or with vibram 5 fingers or at least with shoes that are as close as possible from barefoot (really thin sole, really flexible, no air cushion, no heel, no pronation correction stuffs).

Running barefoot or close to it act as a therapy for a lot of people and you may give it a try, it will definately do good to your running technique. At first you’ll think that it could hurt you, but you’ll realize that it’s a lot more easier on the body than with modern cushion sport shoes.

On the weightlifting side, maybe Christian Thibaudeau could tell you about the benefit from lifting barefoot, for squat, deadlift, and stuffs. Some people love it so much and they don’t want to lift with shoes anymore.
He may enjoy the article links I provided.

[quote]koleg wrote:
Also, there are some recent scientific studies that show that running with sport shoes (with cushion, air cushion and fancy stuffs like these) paradoxaly increase trauma in knee and hips.
I’ve readed it in a french science magazine (Science & vie - march 2010). And here are some other links:
From Harvard: http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/5BarefootRunning&TrainingTips.html
Another more complete article: Overcoming Gravity 2nd Edition & Progression Charts - Steven Low

Dr Romanov have talked a lot about this long time before these recent studies. Basically the human body has his natural “cushion” mechanism and act like a spring while running. It all starts from the feet, and through phsyological reflex and proprioception, and cushionned shoes just kind of “turn of” this natural mechanism, because we loose the sensitivity of the ground.

These studies show that “cushionned” shoes from the last 15 years who were made to avoid injury, actually gives more injuries to the athletes. The human body was made us this way after a long “darwin” evolution/selection, and trying to “customize” the body, thinking it will do a better job than nature, isn’t a good idea after all.

That’s why Dr.Romanov advises: you should run barefoot, or with vibram 5 fingers or at least with shoes that are as close as possible from barefoot (really thin sole, really flexible, no air cushion, no heel, no pronation correction stuffs).

Running barefoot or close to it act as a therapy for a lot of people and you may give it a try, it will definately do good to your running technique. At first you’ll think that it could hurt you, but you’ll realize that it’s a lot more easier on the body than with modern cushion sport shoes.

On the weightlifting side, maybe Christian Thibaudeau could tell you about the benefit from lifting barefoot, for squat, deadlift, and stuffs. Some people love it so much and they don’t want to lift with shoes anymore.
He may enjoy the article links I provided.[/quote]

I’ve read more than one article on this whole barefoot running thing. Here’s my take on it: it ain’t the shoes it’s the technique. If you run with a heel strike the energy travels up your leg and gets absorbed by your knees and back. Running barefoot or with minimalist shoes forces you to land midfoot or forefoot because a heel strike would just be too painful. A midfoot/forefoot landing allows the tough Achilles tendon to absorb the shock. The Achilles tendon evolved to do this. So, once you learn to run with a midfoot/forefoot strike, your choice of shoes, or lack of shoes, becomes irrelevant. Watch a video of someone running barefoot and you’ll see the difference in foot strike. Learn the Pose method or Chi Running (both are very similar, IMO) and you get the benefits of barefoot running but you can wear whatever shoe you like.

I am one example (n=1) of how a midfoot/forefoot strike is beneficial and helps to prevent injury. About two years ago I trained for and completed a half-marathon weighing close to 230 lbs. (on a side note, this also shows that aerobic exercise is not ideal for fat loss as I didn’t lose that much weight during this process, but that’s another thread) with zero knee or other joint issues. I will say that my calves were incredible sore after the half, but they recovered within a few days and it was a muscular soreness, not tendonitis or soreness that one would feel from an injury.

In sum, I’m skeptical about the whole barefoot minimalist shoe claims. You can wear whatever shoe you want provided you have the discipline to avoid heel striking.

Doing barbell training with standard trainers is not optimal. Anything with a solid bottom (as little cushion as possible) is better - Chuck’s, actual lifting shoes, or barefoot… etc. Remember, your feet anchor you to the ground, which is what allows you to produce force. Cushion dilutes and destabilizes the force by spreading it around in an unpredictable fashion.

As for running, I tend to agree with Mike. The damaging part is the heel strike. I always joked with my friends that I sucked at distance running - that I only had two speeds, 0% and 100%. This was because I never got the heel strike inherent in jogging reaaallly slow to feel natural. Now I know why.

I agree about the heel strike. But actually some people start heelstriking with cushionned shoes because there’s a soft feeling of warm shoes and security, and they don’t feel that they need to run otherwise, their biofeedback is compromised, and they get used to this.

People who run barefoot feel that running whith heelstrike is just weird and that it is hurting themselves and they naturally tend to stop it, they adjust naturally.

That’s a problem because when you tell to someone: try to run “close to” barefoot, at first he will tell you that it hurts, and that it doesn’t want to do it again. He must have faith and continue, then the body adjust and come back to a more natural running pattern.

I think that pose running isn’t a technique, it’s more like a “non technique”. Running is a natural movement pattern for every human, it shouldn’t be technical at all, and it should be natural. Every kenyan kid who run and play barefoot all day long, run close to a pose style.

Pose helps some of the people to relearn this natural instinctive movement through various step and exercises. It’s a step back in primitive body mechanism.

“In sum, I’m skeptical about the whole barefoot minimalist shoe claims. You can wear whatever shoe you want provided you have the discipline to avoid heel striking.”

Also I disagree with Dr.Romanov saying that you must run on midfoot/forefoot, even though it’s actually the case, but I understand that he says this for learning purpose:
I think that running should be totally instinctive, and that you shouldn’t care about your body position at all or your feet at all.

From a sprinting perfectionnism point of view, trying to force his foot in a certain way (midfoot) is interfering with the body mechanism, and every inteference in movement is slowing you down. Actually the feet ARE on midfoot, but it shouldn’t be a conscious thing, it shouldn’t be forced, it should come naturally.

The question is: how can I become instinctive so that my feet land in the good way and so that everything fall in place, how can I run while using as energy as less as possible, the easiest way?

Well I think that barefoot is a good start, try to run some miles close to barefoot, and you’ll stop heelstriking really fast without being conscious about it, it’s a neccessity and it’s my main argument.

Trying to consciously run on midfoot with cushioned shoes will for sure prevent injury, and do better for your body, but it’s not optimal, it’s more like a good “trick” to reduce the bad shoes effects and to simulate barefoot. There’s still an more natural way, that will save you some 1/10 of sec for your sprinting time.

Also to get a feel or everything that have been discussed here, there’s a great exercise and you should try it right now to get an instant feel.

Good running is running using as less energy as possible.
Go barefoot and try the exercise that you can see on this video from 1:10 to 1:30 on the time line(I don’t like the others). But while trying, don’t think about your feet or body position, just think about doing the movement using as less energy as possible:
1:10 to 1:30

With untrained people and even with trained one, at the beginning you can hear them heelstriking or whatever and making noise, but after 3 or 4 sets of 1min trying to do it using as less energy as possible, you can see that they start to be lighter and to act more like a spring, and it makes less noise. They are inunsciously regaining elasticity, using stretch reflex, ballistic, whatever you call it, something some lost during time (bodybuilder have the most trouble with this, because they avoid all of this “cheating” body tool while training their body).

Try to run still barefoot after some time on this drill, and you’ll instantaneously run better and you’ll be surprised at how light and springy you’ll fell. Running should pursue the same goal, trhough the same spring effect: using as less energy as possible.
I suggest you to include this exercise during your warmup, just before your sprinting session.

One a side note, during this drill in the video, I can see that this runner is tense and is clearly wasting energy, just by looking at his arms. You can see that he keep his arms down and close to the body, wich is a conscious decision, and wich interfere with the movement, and waste energy.
If you does it good, thinking about being relax and using as less energy as possible, you should see your arms jiggling and moving around in a chaotic way, because the arms act as a counterbalance to keep the body balanced.

That’s the same while sprinting, the arm act as counterbalance because it’s a contralateral movement, and you should let your arm do whatever they want; some sprinter try to “drive” with their arm thinking it will propell them faster (some even try to keep a straigh hand thinking it’ll be aerodynamics haha :D), but they are interfering with the contralateral movement. The arm swing is a consequence of body keeping balance, not something that should be conscious.

Look at some of Usain Bolt performance and pay attention to his opponents, and try to recognize sprinters who looks like power robots while running (knee lifting, arm driving), and sprinter who are relax and are more natural and springy like Usain.

Hey guys thanks for the many replies! I will look into this pose running, sounds very promising.

I hear you on that heel strike thing, I once blew my hamstring while accidentally trying to accelerate while landing on my heel during a match. I will report back if my 40 yard dash is NFL combine worthy. Ha just kidding.

However does anyone know about proper flexibility/mobility assesments for optimal sprinting performance?

[quote]koleg wrote:
Also to get a feel or everything that have been discussed here, there’s a great exercise and you should try it right now to get an instant feel.

Good running is running using as less energy as possible.
Go barefoot and try the exercise that you can see on this video from 1:10 to 1:30 on the time line(I don’t like the others). But while trying, don’t think about your feet or body position, just think about doing the movement using as less energy as possible:
1:10 to 1:30

With untrained people and even with trained one, at the beginning you can hear them heelstriking or whatever and making noise, but after 3 or 4 sets of 1min trying to do it using as less energy as possible, you can see that they start to be lighter and to act more like a spring, and it makes less noise. They are inunsciously regaining elasticity, using stretch reflex, ballistic, whatever you call it, something some lost during time (bodybuilder have the most trouble with this, because they avoid all of this “cheating” body tool while training their body).

Try to run still barefoot after some time on this drill, and you’ll instantaneously run better and you’ll be surprised at how light and springy you’ll fell. Running should pursue the same goal, trhough the same spring effect: using as less energy as possible.
I suggest you to include this exercise during your warmup, just before your sprinting session.

One a side note, during this drill in the video, I can see that this runner is tense and is clearly wasting energy, just by looking at his arms. You can see that he keep his arms down and close to the body, wich is a conscious decision, and wich interfere with the movement, and waste energy.
If you does it good, thinking about being relax and using as less energy as possible, you should see your arms jiggling and moving around in a chaotic way, because the arms act as a counterbalance to keep the body balanced.

That’s the same while sprinting, the arm act as counterbalance because it’s a contralateral movement, and you should let your arm do whatever they want; some sprinter try to “drive” with their arm thinking it will propell them faster (some even try to keep a straigh hand thinking it’ll be aerodynamics haha :D), but they are interfering with the contralateral movement. The arm swing is a consequence of body keeping balance, not something that should be conscious.

Look at some of Usain Bolt performance and pay attention to his opponents, and try to recognize sprinters who looks like power robots while running (knee lifting, arm driving), and sprinter who are relax and are more natural and springy like Usain.
[/quote]

Thanks for all the information! I tried the above drill and it REALLY made a difference. Thanks so much!!!

You’re welcome :smiley: Enjoy running! ^^

Hold it.

The OP mentioned that he plays football/soccer, which means his running form is going to go to total shit when he adds the ball and/or padding into the equation. Track running is not the same as these other sports.

I would not condone the idea of letting your arms do whatever they want, because you don’t want them going side to side. Side to side makes the torso rotate, which is wasted movement. The arms should be close to the body, bent at 90 degrees, with a hammer down motion. Your knees do NOT come up high, only in the accelerating phase does this happen. Speed is quiet, if your feet are pounding on the ground, something is wrong. Sprinting means to run OVER the ground, not on it.

Pay attention to stretch your TFL and IT band more than normal, when these tighten up, mechanics go to shit and you get a reduction in stride length.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Hold it.

The OP mentioned that he plays football/soccer, which means his running form is going to go to total shit when he adds the ball and/or padding into the equation. Track running is not the same as these other sports.

I would not condone the idea of letting your arms do whatever they want, because you don’t want them going side to side. Side to side makes the torso rotate, which is wasted movement. The arms should be close to the body, bent at 90 degrees, with a hammer down motion. Your knees do NOT come up high, only in the accelerating phase does this happen. Speed is quiet, if your feet are pounding on the ground, something is wrong. Sprinting means to run OVER the ground, not on it.

Pay attention to stretch your TFL and IT band more than normal, when these tighten up, mechanics go to shit and you get a reduction in stride length. [/quote]

That is a very good point you are raising here. Because of being able to receive the ball any second DURING a sprint, one cannot “bend forward” like they do in sprinting.

And about the bouncing thing, that happens to me sometimes if fatigue kicks in, so I must work on that too. Thanks for the stretching tip!

[quote]WhiteCrow wrote:
That is a very good point you are raising here. Because of being able to receive the ball any second DURING a sprint, one cannot “bend forward” like they do in sprinting.

And about the bouncing thing, that happens to me sometimes if fatigue kicks in, so I must work on that too. Thanks for the stretching tip![/quote]

I think it’s typically most natural in the soccer context to change your cadence (how fast you alternate feet) so that you can receive the ball. You don’t change the forefoot strike very much.