I saw a 4 pg ad about Spike in Muscle and Fitness. I understand this is a business but why would the people at T-Nation, many of who always criticize this magazine, want to give them financial support in return for add space?
I guess on one side Biotest products will become more mainstream and T-Nation will profit financially from that. On the other hand the T-Nation readers whom have constantly been taught to laugh at these sort of publications are now left to wonder why T-Nation has sold out.
Umm, sounds to me like it is called advertising.
Apparently, if you advertise, people might hear about your products and purchase them.
We dont need to teach everyone accurate info when it comes to training.
Biotest is a buisness and its owners want to be profitable. I say go ahead by any legal and ethical means available to you.
Not only does Biotest being profitable support this site, if a wider market is achieved the prices may go down which is good for everyone. As well as bringing in more money for researching and developing new supps.
So if advertising in M&F increases sales thats great! I dont think its selling out at all. Selling out is changing what you believe and do for money and I dont think thats the case here at all.
I don’t want to go out on a limb, but methinks Vroom might be on to something…
And what in the world were you doing reading Muscle and Fitness in the first place?
[quote]vroom wrote:
Umm, sounds to me like it is called advertising.
Apparently, if you advertise, people might hear about your products and purchase them.[/quote]
Yes it is advertising, but your sarcastic remarks fail to address the poster’s underlying question.
The question is why Biotest would advertise in a magazine that it is ardently opposed? Biotest has a brand image to uphold and when it advertises in M&F it becomes just another supplement company- like the company that puts those ads for Nitrotech or whatever.
I suppose the other side to the argument is that M&F has readers that could benefit from coming to T-Nation and this is a way to recruit and bring more customers, but there are other ways to go about this.
It is about reaching a good amount of quality potential customers not a huge amount of mediocre customers… Does M&F readership have quality potential customers? I don’t know, but I am sure Biotest researched this thoroughly before ponying up 10s of 1000s of dollars.
One effective advertising vehicle that I have seen is posters in gyms… You reach less people but by choosing hardcore gyms you can reach quality customers.
The answer is easy. They figure most M&F readers will buy any crap they see ads for.
If they buy Spike and it actually works for them as opposed to some others, they may try other Biotest products and be converted from a mindless sheep.
Or they could just be trying to make money like anyone else who runs a business.
[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
I saw a 4 pg ad about Spike in Muscle and Fitness. I understand this is a business but why would the people at T-Nation, many of who always criticize this magazine, want to give them financial support in return for add space?
I guess on one side Biotest products will become more mainstream and T-Nation will profit financially from that. On the other hand the T-Nation readers whom have constantly been taught to laugh at these sort of publications are now left to wonder why T-Nation has sold out.[/quote]
I’ve never understood this line of reasoning.
How does advertising in a publication where potential customers can be attracted make a company a sellout?
After all, just because they put an ad in a magazine doesn’t mean that they agree with what the magazine has to say.
By the way, Biotest has been selling products through supplement stores, even GNC (gasp!!!), for years. I believe they’ve advertised in Weider publications off and on for just as long, too.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Umm, sounds to me like it is called advertising.
Apparently, if you advertise, people might hear about your products and purchase them.[/quote]
Yes I too have heard of this. That is why I wrote that I understand T-Nation is a business. However, it would be hard to argue that placing an ad in Muscle and Fitness is not hypocritical. For me T-Nation stood for a no bullshit, testosterone driven website with morals. T-Nation is still a great website and it has a lot of valuable information but this act of hypocracy has let me down a bit. I know a lot of people will defend and maybe a few will feel as i do.
The money Biotest gave to M&F for ad space will profit the Weider corporation. This does not seem like the equivalent of putting an axe in Weider’s chest.
There are, I’m sure, many dedicated weight trainers who read M&F. Just because they haven’t discovered T-Mag doesn’t mean they are not worthy.
Besides, if you read these forum threads on a regular basis I’d say there are quite a few people on this site that should go and read Men’s Fitness instead.
Not to mention the fact that the more people that purchase the products, the better chance of leveraging that volume and dropping the price on the products we buy. Better yet, the increased profits could be spent on research for even better products.
The underlying question was sadly misguided and baseless… 
[quote]DTak wrote:
Or they could just be trying to make money like anyone else who runs a business.
[/quote]
I understand this is all about money. I understand we live in a capitalist society were business ethics are almost extinct. It just seems to me like T-Nation stands for something else or at least I was hoping it did. I know T-Nation does not agree with the information in M&F in fact it strongly disagrees with it. So then why would Biotest provide this publication with more money? Money which they will use to run more articles that will misguide the weightlifting public.
Glad,
Selling out is not spending money to advertise your business.
Now, if T-Nation starts sporting a big M&F logo and accepts money for displaying it and then starts writing articles about how great M&F is, then you might have something to talk about.
How about letting Biotest operate as a business so we can continue to have this little playground they provide?
This website, which is free to us, edifies us, and gives us a playground, is not free to own and operate. I see it as Biotest’s way of giving back something of value to its consumers and the weightlifting/bodybuilding community in general.
Biotest must make money like any other corporation. That includes advertising. I am not sure it would be a good idea to discriminate among advertising vendors. I would guess that there is some demographic and other research statistics involved in the decisions regarding ad placement.
Seriously too, don’t you think there is some tongue-in-cheek when poking fun at the competitors?
I’m only speaking for myself, but…
I started lifting seriously 8 years ago. I got my first serious workout program out of a M&F (its annual beginner’s program, conveniently published every January ish). Of course there were oodles of ads for supplements that I couldn’t afford as a college student at that time. I remember I didn’t particularly care for Biotest’s ads (TRIBEX, MAG-10, and I think Androsol). I thought they were too in-your-face and the writing was too technical. And, gosh, no pro bodybuilder endrosed their products!
Somewhere between 8 years ago and now, I stumbled up on T-Nation. Well, T-Mag at the time. I liked its free articles, excellent writers, and the we-make-supplements-that-WE-want philosophy of Biotest. I was hooked on T-Mag, tired of M&F and Flex, and now I have a career and can afford supplements.
After being disappointed with supplements from other companies, I turned to Biotest’s. They make the best protein powders and bars I have ever used. I’m 25 now and in the best shape of my life.
I still don’t like Biotest’s ads, not because they are “selling out”, but because they sound too unrealistic to beginners like I used to be. Biotest’s image is an acquired taste.
Soooo Biotest’s ads likely won’t appeal to M&F’s target audience anyway. They will be looking for photos of bodybuilding endrosers like ******Tech uses. Too bad for them. 'Tech’s ads may be more agreeable to beginners (who wouldn’t want to be the NPC bodybuilder with a blonde bikini-clad bimbo in each arm?), but I’ve tried their stuff (only because Biotest was out or hadn’t made a better product yet) and hated 'em.
[quote]gladiatorsteer wrote:
The money Biotest gave to M&F for ad space will profit the Weider corporation. This does not seem like the equivalent of putting an axe in Weider’s chest. [/quote]
American Media Inc. owns Muscle and Fitness. They bought it, and the other Weider titles, in 2002, I believe.
Anyhow, Biotest has been advertising in former Weider titles on and off for a few years now.
We’ve found that M & F, in particular, is the only one that works pretty well, advertising wise.
No one here thinks M & F is evil. No one thinks they’re guilty of corrupting youth. As far as we know, they are not funding anti-American activities or supporting terrorists. They do not fund pornography.
We simply think the advice they give is soft-core.
So, I’m not sure where the “selling out” comes in. We’ve continued to poke fun at them if and when they deserve it. We haven’t told anyone to buy their magazine. And lastly, at the last minute, I decided against getting that “Muscle and Fitness” logo tattooed on my ass.
By the way, we’ve gotten a lot of new readers from that ad. Welcome, former M & F’ers!
[quote]DTak wrote:
If they buy Spike and it actually works for them as opposed to some others, they may try other Biotest products and be converted from a mindless sheep.
[/quote]
Ooh, just found proof of this on another thread:
[quote]zenmunkey wrote:
Wow, sweet piece! Very well written, and well supported. Way to do it TC. I’m a newbie on this site, brought here originally by a Spike Ad in M&F Mag. I have since logged on at least once a day to see what’s new.
[/quote]
As quoted from the “Sweat Bunny and the Geek” thread. Way to go, T-Nation… you brought one to the light!
[quote]Atomic Dog wrote:
By the way, we’ve gotten a lot of new readers from that ad. Welcome, former M & F’ers!
[/quote]
Which sounds suspiciously like, “Welcome, former MF’ers!”
The proof is in the pudding.
By all means.
Nate
Why are you reading muscle and fitness?