Small Dunk Vid

Training
101

[quote]adarqui wrote:
djrobins wrote:
adarqui,

I looked at your vids. You definately appear to “move” better than the first vid that you put up here.

One thing I noticed was into your crouch, you looked kind of stiff. You are already getting up there though. It appears that dropping down faster and harder, with a more reflexive action is going to get you up higher. This without increasing your “current power”. I guess what I’m saying, that the legs appear stiff, strong and powerful - but the descent looks slow for the amount of height you get. Perhaps if you can “get down” quicker, while staying tight, you will have more energy to get up with.

ya, you are right about the descent and ‘stiffness’…

to go from 34 to 36, i squatted ~5x/week for 1 month… then i went into a plyo block and got 37 or so, had to take a break from lifting.

then to go from 37 to ~39, i alternated above parallel squatting with heavy walking lunges, nearly every day… before my dunk sessions i would max on squat ~3 days in a row, then take one rest day, then load up on caffeine and jump.

the reason why i say all of that is because, all of that heavy lifting (relative to me) and high frequency really changed how i jumped… i noticed that my plant definitely became a bit slower, but i was jumping higher… this definitely had to do with all of that lifting, a slower plant/ammortization was allowing me to utilize my RFD more “fully”.

the ‘stiffness’ is a good thing… man my legs/glutes/quads felt so damn solid during my plants/jumps/plyometrics… it felt like i could absorb anything…

my SVJ still sucked though :wink: not practicing it had alot to do with it.

peace
[/quote]

if i knew all this shit 18 years ago i feel like i could have gone 45

102

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
As much as Bodyguard and I have argued on this board, he’s right about the vert #'s [he’s still an asshole though]. A 40" vert from a standstill is mind blowingly impressive, and there are only a handful of people that can pull this off, and I’m not talking about that dumbass machine that measures hang time and translates it into inches. I’m talking about a true measured reach, vertec tested jump.

At my best I put up a 35" from a standstill and a 41.5" off 3 steps being tested like that and it looked like I was shot out of a cannon. All the guys you see in the league that dunk the shit outta the ball who claim 40’s were tested in the mid 30’s off of the run, with a few exceptions.

And if it’s okay with you, I’d like to keep my asshole status.

And yes, these guys in the league that are perceived as hi flyers are 6.6 and up guys with mostly low 30 verts. Combine that vert with that height and shit looks amazing. high 30’s and into 40 is the top of the bell curve.

by the way, two or three step jumps more closely approximate game conditions anyway. what does it matter if you can only test at 30 from a dead two foot standstill if you can jump 38 in a game? the measurement is a means to an end - just a means of measuring progress. as long as you measure it the same time each time, it suits its purpose. but in a real athletic endeavor, you are rarely required to explode without at least a drop or jab step.

[/quote]

Agreed. Anyone who’s getting 40+ in any capacity has a genetic predisposition towards being “explosive”. I also agree about the svj vs rvj thing. Jumping from a standstill is cool and is obviously harder, but how often does that happen in a game situation? Also, everyone here would [or at east should] agree that Andre Iguodala is an awesome dunker and seems pretty damn explosive. His running vert at the NBA combine was 34". There’s a lot to be said for being tall with long arms and agile.

103

Best vert I’ve ever seen in person was a college teammate of mine. I can throw down some pretty legit dunks, but he could pretty much embarrass me without even getting warmed up. He can dunk from the foul line and I’ve seen him casually jog from the left side of the court, then take two steps, jump from outside the key, put the ball between his legs and dunk with his right hand across his body. Difficult to describe how impressive it was to see in person.

At 6’6", I’ve seen him hit his head on the rim, but not by more than an inch or two. So that puts his running vert at 43" or so. Dude’s playing pro ball overseas now.

The Iguodala measurement seems low. He’s what, 6’6" or so? If his running vert was only 34", I don’t think he’d even be able to hit his head on the backboard.

104

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Best vert I’ve ever seen in person was a college teammate of mine. I can throw down some pretty legit dunks, but he could pretty much embarrass me without even getting warmed up. He can dunk from the foul line and I’ve seen him casually jog from the left side of the court, then take two steps, jump from outside the key, put the ball between his legs and dunk with his right hand across his body. Difficult to describe how impressive it was to see in person.

At 6’6", I’ve seen him hit his head on the rim, but not by more than an inch or two. So that puts his running vert at 43" or so. Dude’s playing pro ball overseas now.

The Iguodala measurement seems low. He’s what, 6’6" or so? If his running vert was only 34", I don’t think he’d even be able to hit his head on the backboard.[/quote]

It seems low to me as well, but he has something like a 6’11" wingspan and huge hands, so he’s got the “Dr.J” effect going, meaning all of his layups are dunks. Also, Joe Alexander has a few vids of him smacking his forhead against the rim, but at 6’7" his combine vert was 38 or 39", and that math doesn’t add up so Iguodala might’ve been shortchanged as well.

105

i actually don’t doubt the iguadala number. my experience has been those guys are low 30’s. as whiteflash said its not just the height but the longer arms. take a guy 6.1 like me and compare to a guy 6.6 and reach differential could easily be 10 or more inches (5 inches with the height alone). that’s huge. it’s 11 feet to the top of the square. only another foot to the top of the backboard. think about it.

106

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
i actually don’t doubt the iguadala number. my experience has been those guys are low 30’s. as whiteflash said its not just the height but the longer arms. take a guy 6.1 like me and compare to a guy 6.6 and reach differential could easily be 10 or more inches (5 inches with the height alone). that’s huge. it’s 11 feet to the top of the square. only another foot to the top of the backboard. think about it. [/quote]

I think you actually might be right. When you watch this:

As sick as those dunks are, I’m not sure his head ever gets within 6" of the rim. Top of the square is 11’6" though:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1.html?nav=ArticleList

107

Being a “shorter” basketball player who can dunk with no steps is pretty good for intimidating opponents. If you get the ball anywhere around the paint they double or triple team you like flies on shit to save from getting some standing vertical nuts in their face.

Btw WhiteFlash, I’ve been practicing my running jumps as per your suggestions and I feel like I’m consistently getting up 2-3" higher than my standing vertical jump finally. Was sick all this week, but hopefully by Spring I’ll be able to have at least a 5-6" higher running vertical than standing vertical.

As a general question, in y’alls’ experience, how much higher do athletes get on average on their RVJ vs SVJ? The most I’ve ever been able to separate the two was 4" back in high school. (31/35)

108

[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
As a general question, in y’alls’ experience, how much higher do athletes get on average on their RVJ vs SVJ? The most I’ve ever been able to separate the two was 4" back in high school. (31/35)[/quote]

From my experience, the majority of athletes are 3-4" higher off the run. It seems to depend a bit on their weight though. Heavier athletes tend to do better (in a relative sense) on a standing vertical and lighter athletes tend to jump well off the run, especially those who go off one foot.

109

[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
Being a “shorter” basketball player who can dunk with no steps is pretty good for intimidating opponents. If you get the ball anywhere around the paint they double or triple team you like flies on shit to save from getting some standing vertical nuts in their face.

Btw WhiteFlash, I’ve been practicing my running jumps as per your suggestions and I feel like I’m consistently getting up 2-3" higher than my standing vertical jump finally. Was sick all this week, but hopefully by Spring I’ll be able to have at least a 5-6" higher running vertical than standing vertical.

As a general question, in y’alls’ experience, how much higher do athletes get on average on their RVJ vs SVJ? The most I’ve ever been able to separate the two was 4" back in high school. (31/35)[/quote]

Good man. Glad the advice helped. To answer your question with personal #'s, my difference was 6.5" according to the guy who measured it, from 35" svj to 41.5" rvj. Don’t know what that means though.

110

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
As sick as those dunks are, I’m not sure his head ever gets within 6" of the rim. Top of the square is 11’6" though:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1.html?nav=ArticleList [/quote]

maybe my vert was higher…i always thought it was 11…and that was how I measured my vert in my prime. i was about 4" shy of the top…but thinking about it, 11’6" makes much more sense. I know I was better than 8" above the rim…

111

[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
Being a “shorter” basketball player who can dunk with no steps is pretty good for intimidating opponents. If you get the ball anywhere around the paint they double or triple team you like flies on shit to save from getting some standing vertical nuts in their face.
[/quote]

this simply is not true. shorter players if they dunk in a game are getting it on break a ways. it simply does not happen at a high level of competition. you do not go up in the paint or exist in the paint without a good deal of contact. no one will ever allow you to just get set, recoil and dunk - not a short guy. the best bet for the shorter guys is sneaking in on something coming off the rim if someone doesn’t get a body on you. and no player is intimidated about dunks. its two points. it happens. move on to next play. i used to love to brag about how i never got dunked on…and lots of us can make that brag until high school is done :slight_smile: after that, if you’re playing with players, it happens. happens to the absolute best, biggest, tallest, whatever. it just happens. get beat by a step with no one to help? you just got dunked on. rotate to help someone else and a big is coming down the lane? you just got dunked on. looks good, feels bad to get it in your face, but its just two points :slight_smile:

112

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
TurboLykes wrote:
Being a “shorter” basketball player who can dunk with no steps is pretty good for intimidating opponents. If you get the ball anywhere around the paint they double or triple team you like flies on shit to save from getting some standing vertical nuts in their face.

this simply is not true. shorter players if they dunk in a game are getting it on break a ways. it simply does not happen at a high level of competition. you do not go up in the paint or exist in the paint without a good deal of contact. no one will ever allow you to just get set, recoil and dunk - not a short guy. the best bet for the shorter guys is sneaking in on something coming off the rim if someone doesn’t get a body on you. and no player is intimidated about dunks. its two points. it happens. move on to next play. i used to love to brag about how i never got dunked on…and lots of us can make that brag until high school is done :slight_smile: after that, if you’re playing with players, it happens. happens to the absolute best, biggest, tallest, whatever. it just happens. get beat by a step with no one to help? you just got dunked on. rotate to help someone else and a big is coming down the lane? you just got dunked on. looks good, feels bad to get it in your face, but its just two points :slight_smile:
[/quote]

BG, I agree with what you wrote but I see Turbos point. Intimidating probably isn’t the right word, but if someone sees you puting down some nice dunks before the game they’ll be respectful of what you can do and will try to swallow you up if/when you get in the paint so they don’t get banged on. I can’t tell you how many times I got wrapped up in the paint after blowing by my man. I also got the wood layed on me a few times when airborne 'cause no one wants to get dunked on, especially by a short white guy, haha.

113

[quote]adarqui wrote:
djrobins wrote:
adarqui,

I looked at your vids. You definately appear to “move” better than the first vid that you put up here.

One thing I noticed was into your crouch, you looked kind of stiff. You are already getting up there though. It appears that dropping down faster and harder, with a more reflexive action is going to get you up higher. This without increasing your “current power”. I guess what I’m saying, that the legs appear stiff, strong and powerful - but the descent looks slow for the amount of height you get. Perhaps if you can “get down” quicker, while staying tight, you will have more energy to get up with.

ya, you are right about the descent and ‘stiffness’…

to go from 34 to 36, i squatted ~5x/week for 1 month… then i went into a plyo block and got 37 or so, had to take a break from lifting.

then to go from 37 to ~39, i alternated above parallel squatting with heavy walking lunges, nearly every day… before my dunk sessions i would max on squat ~3 days in a row, then take one rest day, then load up on caffeine and jump.

the reason why i say all of that is because, all of that heavy lifting (relative to me) and high frequency really changed how i jumped… i noticed that my plant definitely became a bit slower, but i was jumping higher… this definitely had to do with all of that lifting, a slower plant/ammortization was allowing me to utilize my RFD more “fully”.

You had a 39" svj?!

All of that leg training would have carried a lot of fatigue right?!

Koing
the ‘stiffness’ is a good thing… man my legs/glutes/quads felt so damn solid during my plants/jumps/plyometrics… it felt like i could absorb anything…

my SVJ still sucked though :wink: not practicing it had alot to do with it.

peace
[/quote]

114

It’s been good reading this thread :slight_smile:

Koing

115

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
BG, I agree with what you wrote but I see Turbos point. Intimidating probably isn’t the right word, but if someone sees you puting down some nice dunks before the game they’ll be respectful of what you can do and will try to swallow you up if/when you get in the paint so they don’t get banged on. I can’t tell you how many times I got wrapped up in the paint after blowing by my man. I also got the wood layed on me a few times when airborne 'cause no one wants to get dunked on, especially by a short white guy, haha.[/quote]

Respectfully, I disagree. No “player” - when I say player, I means someone that plays at a high level let’s say D1 and up, cares one little bit whether you can dunk or not. Maybe in high school, but nowhere else. I’ve never ever looked over at the other lay up line and paid any attention to who was doing what in warm ups. And true, maybe you got wrapped up, but really, there are no freebies coming down the lane on a court with players actually playing defense. It’s not high school where you’re going to dance down the lane and throw one down - a big is going to put you on your ass to send a message, that’s just part of the game. You have to forgive me, because this is just a rant of mine. For too many would be players, the dunk, the cross over, etc., has been emphasized to the exclusion of a lot of more important skills. Don’t get me wrong. I was obsessed with dunking (until i could), obsessed with my vertical (as a means to improve performance) but I never sacraficed developing my game. Maybe it’s because I always played with older and some very good players. Dunking means shit. Absolute shit in the grand scheme of the game. I see kids now in high school that can dunk the shit out of the ball but can’t shoot a fundamentally sound jump shot. Feel me?

True story, you can look up the main players. I grew up playing in S. Jersey. Graduated high school 83. During my time, the powerhouse in NJ (and the nation) was Camden High. Billy Thompson, Milt Wagner (DaJuan’s father), Kevin Walls - all the foregoing went to Louiville when they were a powerhouse and won a national championship. On Milt’s team, he was 6.6 and the POINT GUARD. The team looked like a D1 college team. Every single player could dunk on the roster. Now, I was playing myself, so I didn’t get to see them play much. But I was friendly with Milt and some others, so I’d check them out when I could - hell, they were beating teams by 40. Some teams couldn’t break thier press for minutes at a time. They were a force. THEY NEVER DUNKED IN WARM UPS. But they rattled the rim all over you in the game. And they could PLAY. Defense. Dribble. Shoot. Shit, Milt had hops, but he could rain on you all day from 25 feet. Dunking is an insignificant part of the game, and every player knows it. Frankly Flash, if I were assigned to guard you when I was playing, I’d be more concerned with what kind of handle you had, whether you went to your right or left or both, what the range on your jumper was, and how quick you were - if I could play you close or if I had to back off a step. The fact that you could dunk would be irrelevant to me. Because first, if you can’t beat me with your step, you’re not dunking. Second, if you beat me with your step, there is a big waiting to put your shot in the stands and you on your ass :slight_smile: Understand where I’m coming from?

116

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BG, I agree with what you wrote but I see Turbos point. Intimidating probably isn’t the right word, but if someone sees you puting down some nice dunks before the game they’ll be respectful of what you can do and will try to swallow you up if/when you get in the paint so they don’t get banged on. I can’t tell you how many times I got wrapped up in the paint after blowing by my man. I also got the wood layed on me a few times when airborne 'cause no one wants to get dunked on, especially by a short white guy, haha.

Respectfully, I disagree. No “player” - when I say player, I means someone that plays at a high level let’s say D1 and up, cares one little bit whether you can dunk or not. Maybe in high school, but nowhere else. I’ve never ever looked over at the other lay up line and paid any attention to who was doing what in warm ups. And true, maybe you got wrapped up, but really, there are no freebies coming down the lane on a court with players actually playing defense. It’s not high school where you’re going to dance down the lane and throw one down - a big is going to put you on your ass to send a message, that’s just part of the game. You have to forgive me, because this is just a rant of mine. For too many would be players, the dunk, the cross over, etc., has been emphasized to the exclusion of a lot of more important skills. Don’t get me wrong. I was obsessed with dunking (until i could), obsessed with my vertical (as a means to improve performance) but I never sacraficed developing my game. Maybe it’s because I always played with older and some very good players. Dunking means shit. Absolute shit in the grand scheme of the game. I see kids now in high school that can dunk the shit out of the ball but can’t shoot a fundamentally sound jump shot. Feel me?

True story, you can look up the main players. I grew up playing in S. Jersey. Graduated high school 83. During my time, the powerhouse in NJ (and the nation) was Camden High. Billy Thompson, Milt Wagner (DaJuan’s father), Kevin Walls - all the foregoing went to Louiville when they were a powerhouse and won a national championship. On Milt’s team, he was 6.6 and the POINT GUARD. The team looked like a D1 college team. Every single player could dunk on the roster. Now, I was playing myself, so I didn’t get to see them play much. But I was friendly with Milt and some others, so I’d check them out when I could - hell, they were beating teams by 40. Some teams couldn’t break thier press for minutes at a time. They were a force. THEY NEVER DUNKED IN WARM UPS. But they rattled the rim all over you in the game. And they could PLAY. Defense. Dribble. Shoot. Shit, Milt had hops, but he could rain on you all day from 25 feet. Dunking is an insignificant part of the game, and every player knows it. Frankly Flash, if I were assigned to guard you when I was playing, I’d be more concerned with what kind of handle you had, whether you went to your right or left or both, what the range on your jumper was, and how quick you were - if I could play you close or if I had to back off a step. The fact that you could dunk would be irrelevant to me. Because first, if you can’t beat me with your step, you’re not dunking. Second, if you beat me with your step, there is a big waiting to put your shot in the stands and you on your ass :slight_smile: Understand where I’m coming from?

[/quote]

I totally understand where you’re coming from. My point was no one wants to be on the recieving end of a facial. NO ONE. That’s why I said I’d get wrapped up or hammered. Also, like you said a guard will very rarely have an oppertunity to dunk in a half court set. Unless you catch the big with his back turned or you get that split second to raise up you’re probably puting it off the glass. Also, my scouting report would read: Goes to the rack 99% of the time and occasionally shoots ill-advised 25 footers, haha.

117

Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.

118

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BG, I agree with what you wrote but I see Turbos point. Intimidating probably isn’t the right word, but if someone sees you puting down some nice dunks before the game they’ll be respectful of what you can do and will try to swallow you up if/when you get in the paint so they don’t get banged on. I can’t tell you how many times I got wrapped up in the paint after blowing by my man. I also got the wood layed on me a few times when airborne 'cause no one wants to get dunked on, especially by a short white guy, haha.

Respectfully, I disagree. No “player” - when I say player, I means someone that plays at a high level let’s say D1 and up, cares one little bit whether you can dunk or not. Maybe in high school, but nowhere else. I’ve never ever looked over at the other lay up line and paid any attention to who was doing what in warm ups. And true, maybe you got wrapped up, but really, there are no freebies coming down the lane on a court with players actually playing defense. It’s not high school where you’re going to dance down the lane and throw one down - a big is going to put you on your ass to send a message, that’s just part of the game. You have to forgive me, because this is just a rant of mine. For too many would be players, the dunk, the cross over, etc., has been emphasized to the exclusion of a lot of more important skills. Don’t get me wrong. I was obsessed with dunking (until i could), obsessed with my vertical (as a means to improve performance) but I never sacraficed developing my game. Maybe it’s because I always played with older and some very good players. Dunking means shit. Absolute shit in the grand scheme of the game. I see kids now in high school that can dunk the shit out of the ball but can’t shoot a fundamentally sound jump shot. Feel me?

True story, you can look up the main players. I grew up playing in S. Jersey. Graduated high school 83. During my time, the powerhouse in NJ (and the nation) was Camden High. Billy Thompson, Milt Wagner (DaJuan’s father), Kevin Walls - all the foregoing went to Louiville when they were a powerhouse and won a national championship. On Milt’s team, he was 6.6 and the POINT GUARD. The team looked like a D1 college team. Every single player could dunk on the roster. Now, I was playing myself, so I didn’t get to see them play much. But I was friendly with Milt and some others, so I’d check them out when I could - hell, they were beating teams by 40. Some teams couldn’t break thier press for minutes at a time. They were a force. THEY NEVER DUNKED IN WARM UPS. But they rattled the rim all over you in the game. And they could PLAY. Defense. Dribble. Shoot. Shit, Milt had hops, but he could rain on you all day from 25 feet. Dunking is an insignificant part of the game, and every player knows it. Frankly Flash, if I were assigned to guard you when I was playing, I’d be more concerned with what kind of handle you had, whether you went to your right or left or both, what the range on your jumper was, and how quick you were - if I could play you close or if I had to back off a step. The fact that you could dunk would be irrelevant to me. Because first, if you can’t beat me with your step, you’re not dunking. Second, if you beat me with your step, there is a big waiting to put your shot in the stands and you on your ass :slight_smile: Understand where I’m coming from?

[/quote]

I agree with all of that.
Of course, the people who care about dunking the most are people who can’t even dunk.
I believe too many emphasize the flashy parts of the game, so their skill set suffers.
Some kids can dribble like crazy, but can’t shoot. Some kids can shoot, but can’t get their shot. Some kids have hops, but can’t use them, cuz they suck.
I’ve tried to develop my game completely, so there wouldn’t be any holes in my game.
I definitely know what you’re saying about “high school kids that can dunk the shit out of the ball but can’t shoot a fundamentally sound jump shot” and it kinda annoys me when less knowledgeable people mistake this for talent.

I heard that Dajuan Wagner scored 100 points in a high school game. Beastly.

119

Bluefingas,I’m guessing you’re young. Like BG said hops are a means to an end. Also, Dajuan Wagner was the truth. The summer before his senior year he showed up at the Nike camp, dropped over 50 and left after one game 'cause it wasn’t even a challenge. Think about that. If he hadn’t had the stomache problems I’m convinced he woulda been a multiple time all-star and possible hof’er. His game was ridiculous.

120

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, my scouting report would read: Goes to the rack 99% of the time and occasionally shoots ill-advised 25 footers, haha.[/quote]

lol