[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.[/quote]
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
[quote]bluefingas wrote:
I heard that Dajuan Wagner scored 100 points in a high school game. Beastly.[/quote]
Yes he did. But it wasn’t against a strong school. He also came from a system where each year they anointed someone and gave them the green light. Health problems notwithstanding, he should have stayed another year or two in school. He had some things to work on. But he was absolutely positively the truth. What kind of pro he would have been depended entirely on his ability to correct holes in his game that he didn’t address with a year or more in college. We’ve been rooting for him to come back, but as far as I can tell, his nba career is over.
BodyGuard, you make 100% sense. The thing is that I’m not in a competitive high school situation anymore, being in college and just training athletically for fun. I’ll play a few pick up games every now and then, but haven’t played “real” basketball since high school. Fundamentals of the game trump athleticism when it comes to game time. Btw, I got a bad back injury from getting hurt trying to dunk on a 6’6" friend of mine back sophomore year of high school. He realized mid-air that he wasn’t going to be able to block my dunk and proceeded to push me, leading me to land sideways on my hip.
One of these days I’m gonna mob one off a rebound or a quick spin move at the post. Just for fun, of course.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
[/quote]
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.[/quote]
A while ago I heard he was playing overseas, but I don’t think he playing ball right now professionally.
Same thing will Jay Williams; he would have had a great career, but had that motorcycle accident.
Anyways, back on topic, nice dunk video. I’ve been watching your vids for a while now. You’ve gone from clamantfever dunks to hard ass dunks, nice.
[quote]bluefingas wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.
A while ago I heard he was playing overseas, but I don’t think he playing ball right now professionally.
Same thing will Jay Williams; he would have had a great career, but had that motorcycle accident.
Anyways, back on topic, nice dunk video. I’ve been watching your vids for a while now. You’ve gone from clamantfever dunks to hard ass dunks, nice.[/quote]
If that was directed at me I think you’ve got me confused with someone else. I’ve only got a few dunk vids and they’re all from the past month or two. I’ll get back to 360’s and other shit though soon enough. Think you’re right about Wagner. Just youtubed him and saw a vid of him in a Polish league, which on some levels is really, really sad.
[quote]TurboLykes wrote:
BodyGuard, you make 100% sense. The thing is that I’m not in a competitive high school situation anymore, being in college and just training athletically for fun. I’ll play a few pick up games every now and then, but haven’t played “real” basketball since high school. Fundamentals of the game trump athleticism when it comes to game time. Btw, I got a bad back injury from getting hurt trying to dunk on a 6’6" friend of mine back sophomore year of high school. He realized mid-air that he wasn’t going to be able to block my dunk and proceeded to push me, leading me to land sideways on my hip.
One of these days I’m gonna mob one off a rebound or a quick spin move at the post. Just for fun, of course.[/quote]
Your friend deserves his ass kicked 
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.[/quote]
He was actually signed with the Warriors. They released him early in the season. Basically bought him out. I wouldn’t count him entirely out though. He’s still young. If anyone can get him another shot, his “uncle”, Wes aka “worldwide wes” (I grew up with him) can. But my money says he’s done in the nba. Too bad. I was rooting for him. But if he continues to make six figures overseas for those short seasons, that’s not the end of the world.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.
A while ago I heard he was playing overseas, but I don’t think he playing ball right now professionally.
Same thing will Jay Williams; he would have had a great career, but had that motorcycle accident.
Anyways, back on topic, nice dunk video. I’ve been watching your vids for a while now. You’ve gone from clamantfever dunks to hard ass dunks, nice.
If that was directed at me I think you’ve got me confused with someone else. I’ve only got a few dunk vids and they’re all from the past month or two. I’ll get back to 360’s and other shit though soon enough. Think you’re right about Wagner. Just youtubed him and saw a vid of him in a Polish league, which on some levels is really, really sad.[/quote]
He played in Poland right after the Warriors stint. I’m not sure where he is right now. I haven’t seen him in a while but then again, I’m not in Camden every day like I was 6 months ago.
Some of those guys can make damn good money overseas. I don’t know the details outside of his stomache problems, but there is no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. He put up damn near 15 a game as a 19 year old rookie without really understanding the game. The kid has major game, and with the sudden premium on small[er] combo guards there has to be a spot for him with his offensive instincts and athleticism.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Also, I know who Milt Wagner is man. You gotta give me a little credit. Sad what happened to his kid. I thought he was gonna be an animal in the league.
Yup. I see Juanny around the way all the time. It’s a fucking shame. There’s a lot to the story.
I gathered as much. He played in the summer league for the Warriors not too long ago [maybe 2 seasons ago?] and had some pretty big games if I remember correctly. He had a pretty solid rookie year with the Cavs and then??? Not sure if he’s a head case or what, but there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. But as you said I’m pretty sure he’s done in the States. He needed to tighten his handle, work on speeding up his shot/shot selection and learn the game a bit more, but that kid had one-on-one scoring instincts like no other. He easily coulda been a 20ppg career scorer if things had gone differently.
A while ago I heard he was playing overseas, but I don’t think he playing ball right now professionally.
Same thing will Jay Williams; he would have had a great career, but had that motorcycle accident.
Anyways, back on topic, nice dunk video. I’ve been watching your vids for a while now. You’ve gone from clamantfever dunks to hard ass dunks, nice.
If that was directed at me I think you’ve got me confused with someone else. I’ve only got a few dunk vids and they’re all from the past month or two. I’ll get back to 360’s and other shit though soon enough. Think you’re right about Wagner. Just youtubed him and saw a vid of him in a Polish league, which on some levels is really, really sad.[/quote]
lol no, I was referring to the OP, but I bet your dunks are good too.
This thread has taken a complete 180; nice.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Some of those guys can make damn good money overseas. I don’t know the details outside of his stomache problems, but there is no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. He put up damn near 15 a game as a 19 year old rookie without really understanding the game. The kid has major game, and with the sudden premium on small[er] combo guards there has to be a spot for him with his offensive instincts and athleticism.[/quote]
oh he understood the game. his dad was an nba player as you know and he was schooled. he just had some important nuances to work on. he could have used another year under calipari but really, when you’re a lottery pick, it’s hard to make a sound argument for not coming out. whether he addressed those issues while in the league is just a guess. what is certain though is if not for the health problems he would have had a long career just on his then level coming in the league. his upside was limited only by how well rounded he would have become, how hard he was willing to work and how serious he was about addressing his weaknesses - whether he was truly “coachable”. my guess is that he would have done it and become an all star by year 3 or 4, depending on where he was playing.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
Some of those guys can make damn good money overseas. I don’t know the details outside of his stomache problems, but there is no reason he shouldn’t be in the league. He put up damn near 15 a game as a 19 year old rookie without really understanding the game. The kid has major game, and with the sudden premium on small[er] combo guards there has to be a spot for him with his offensive instincts and athleticism.
oh he understood the game. his dad was an nba player as you know and he was schooled. he just had some important nuances to work on. he could have used another year under calipari but really, when you’re a lottery pick, it’s hard to make a sound argument for not coming out. whether he addressed those issues while in the league is just a guess. what is certain though is if not for the health problems he would have had a long career just on his then level coming in the league. his upside was limited only by how well rounded he would have become, how hard he was willing to work and how serious he was about addressing his weaknesses - whether he was truly “coachable”. my guess is that he would have done it and become an all star by year 3 or 4, depending on where he was playing. [/quote]
I meant the NBA game, pick’n’rolls, adjusting to the speed, defensive assignments, etc… Wasn’t questioning his general basketball knoweledge. Man, could you imagine a lineup that had Wagner, James and Boozer? If Boozer wasn’t a dick and Wagner hadn’t gotten sick that woulda been bananas.
He and James and a good big would have a chance to win on any night with the right complimentary players. He is also the perfect illustration for the difference between guys that can play and the NBA level. Wags even when he was working his way into shape and working on getting back could walk into any high level summer league game and drop 40 like it was a sneeze - against former D1 players and guys playing overseas, and the kid was nowhere near 100%.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
He and James and a good big would have a chance to win on any night with the right complimentary players. He is also the perfect illustration for the difference between guys that can play and the NBA level. Wags even when he was working his way into shape and working on getting back could walk into any high level summer league game and drop 40 like it was a sneeze - against former D1 players and guys playing overseas, and the kid was nowhere near 100%. [/quote]
Most people don’t understand how good these NBA guys are. I’ve played with a handful of 'em, and with the exception of a few they are/were middle of the pack guys at the NBA level. I worked out a few times with Anthony Goldwire, who went to UofH and bounced around the league and overseas. I’ve never seen anybody shoot the ball like that in my life, I mean he’s the definition of automatic and he was a fringe NBA player and generally a 3rd string point guard. When he stepped on an NBA court and he was severly average. I think Kenny Smith said it best with “All these playground cats talking shit about Steve Kerr, know this: Steve Kerr will give you 50.” It’s just a different level.
I played ball with Shawn Kemp maybe 5 years ago or so. He was well over 300lbs and just looked soft and out of shape. He was crossing people over and raining 25 footers like they were freethrows in an empty gym. He was also alot quicker than someone that size had any right to be. It was pretty obvious in that hour or so that I played with him why he was once called the reignman.
LOL well then you understand I missed for other reasons, not playing related. Tough pill to swallow. But Kenny Smith is 100% right. There is really nothing to add. The 12th man will bust your ass. The game is so different and played at such a different speed and really with different “rules”. The athletic level is off the chart. And that playground v. nba continuum of sorts holds across college ball D1-3. There are a lot of nice D3 and 2 players that are very highly skilled in a lot of instances but they are generally just a step slow. Or they could be great athletes but lack skill. And when put up against a higher echelon they just can’t compete. And you just never notice it until they get on the floor with someone who is a step or two faster - and it becomes a huge difference. You could watch a good D3 player and think the world of him until you put a D1 player against him. And then you see all his shortcomings. And the NBA game is much more physical than the average fan gives it credit for. I remember the first time I was on a court with an NBA ref, I was fucking mauled and he looked at me and laughed - no call. Contrast that to a summer league I played in with college players and refs and I swear to god one time the guy BEAT me and I didn’t even touch him and had a foul called on me! LOL will never ever ever forget that. As for the Goldwires of the world, sometimes its just a small nuance to his game the he can’t pick up thats not very noticeable. Could be defense. Could be an inability to do certain things. Or a guy like that can be the victim of numbers. Take the number of guys a team carries, subtract all your guaranteed contracts and veterans, subtract your first round draft picks and promising second round draft picks, add any possible trades and you don’t have many spots left for a free agent looking to bust thru. And sometimes its not talent, its just numbers and opportunity. Sometimes its being in a system where you can’t flourish or being a bubble player playing not to make a mistake instead of just playing the way that got you there. It’s really complicated when it comes to who makes it and who doesn’t and alot of times there isn’t as much separation in talent as you’d expect. LOL @ Kenny Smith. Never heard that quote but you’re fucking A right that Kerr would drop 50 or more on any of these high flying, cross over, own the playground players.
BG, there’s a dude from around your way named Horace Jenkins who played at a D-3 school in Jersey who’s an animal at pg, but like you said is the victim of the numbers game. Goldwire wasn’t the most explosive athlete you’ll ever play with/against, but the guy knows the game. Coming from UofH and leaving a year early really hurt him I think. He’s played with at least 5 NBA teams, but it’s hard to get that guaranteed when you’re the 3rd guy off the bench at your position and the two in front of you were 1st round picks. For anyone reading this [not that I’m an expert], I want to clarify that I’m not saying the NBA is all politics, but there is definitely a political element. The facts are you can’t make an NBA roster unless you have MAJOR GAME. Like BG said these 10-12th men are guys who light up your local playground heroes.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
“All these playground cats talking shit about Steve Kerr, know this: Steve Kerr will give you 50.” [/quote]
Hah, that was in his little column he used to write at the end of Slam Magazine. I had that one back in 8th or 9th grade and, weirdly, still remember that quote.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
“All these playground cats talking shit about Steve Kerr, know this: Steve Kerr will give you 50.”
Hah, that was in his little column he used to write at the end of Slam Magazine. I had that one back in 8th or 9th grade and, weirdly, still remember that quote.[/quote]
That is where that’s from! I couldn’t remember if I read it or heard it. My mom got me a SLAM subscription when I first started playing ball in the 6th grade. My first issue was #3 with John Starks on the cover. I used to love that mag!
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
“All these playground cats talking shit about Steve Kerr, know this: Steve Kerr will give you 50.”
Hah, that was in his little column he used to write at the end of Slam Magazine. I had that one back in 8th or 9th grade and, weirdly, still remember that quote.
That is where that’s from! I couldn’t remember if I read it or heard it. My mom got me a SLAM subscription when I first started playing ball in the 6th grade. My first issue was #3 with John Starks on the cover. I used to love that mag![/quote]
Haha yeah, Slam mag was the shit. They always had (maybe they still do, haven’t picked up an issue lately) that one double-sided poster that would piss me off when both sides were good. I used to hang them all up, which probably caused my parents to wonder why a young Joseph had pictures of sweaty black men all over his walls. I think they were quite relieved when an equal number of FHM/Maxim covers joined the basketball posters around 9th grade.