See the second question…Yoda (Poliquin) answers it better than I can. I never think of training in terms of bulking and cutting. I see them as the same thing really, unless your a power-lifter where unnecessary bulk can be helpful in terms of momentum you don’t need to eat any sort of crap to put on weight. By the same token, clean food won’t make you fat or add fat, it will likely reduce fat even if you are eating to bulk.[/quote]
All true, however what differentiates a bulk from a cut is not “what” you eat, but “how much”, and that does make a difference.
I didnt read throu all the post, but dont jump right in to the V-Diet. I made that mistake and am still trying to loose my body fat before I can start a clean bulk.
I am about to start CW’s 10/10 and hopefull if all goes well my bf% will be low enough to start a bulk.
If you dont want to try 10/10 go with CT’s Destroying Fat and John Berardi’s 10 Habits.
The diet is easy to follow with 10/10, I would check that out before you are the V-Diet.
[quote]PHGN wrote:
If you’re new to training, you should just train hard and clean your diet, do some cardio at the end of your sessions and you’ll end up with more muscle and less fat.[/quote]
[quote]schultzie wrote:
yeah i agree, at this point, just start lifting weights and learn to eat healthy, you will loose fat and gain muscle. later on you can decide to “bulk” or “cut”.
but i hate how people see them as equal phases. Cut is something actually quite easy to do once you’ve done your research, and can be finished in a few weeks.
“bulking” or gaining muscle and strength takes years and years of effort.
these two things are NOT equal[/quote]
I’m with these guys. You haven’t been training long enough to worry about cutting or gaining. Just work any beginners program and eat six quality meals a day for a while in my opinion. In reasonably short order you’ll see how you should proceed if you learn to pay attention to what your body is telling you. New guys nowadays get themselves all contorted and twisted with over precise specialized shit that is going to do them any good maybe for years.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
irongutted wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Why can’t you gain muscle and drop body fat? Why, oh why does this myth persist? You can do both, so do both; it’s especially easy in the beginning.
By which means you can accomplish both in your experience?
Im asking of sincere curiosity.
See the second question…Yoda (Poliquin) answers it better than I can. I never think of training in terms of bulking and cutting. I see them as the same thing really, unless your a power-lifter where unnecessary bulk can be helpful in terms of momentum you don’t need to eat any sort of crap to put on weight. By the same token, clean food won’t make you fat or add fat, it will likely reduce fat even if you are eating to bulk.[/quote]
Thank you pat36.
I do eat clean 90% of the time, the hard part is that the scale weight, at least with me, doesnt go up quick… but i do see constant improvements on the mirror and on the weight room, so i guess its all ok.
[quote]irongutted wrote:
pat36 wrote:
irongutted wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Why can’t you gain muscle and drop body fat? Why, oh why does this myth persist? You can do both, so do both; it’s especially easy in the beginning.
By which means you can accomplish both in your experience?
Im asking of sincere curiosity.
See the second question…Yoda (Poliquin) answers it better than I can. I never think of training in terms of bulking and cutting. I see them as the same thing really, unless your a power-lifter where unnecessary bulk can be helpful in terms of momentum you don’t need to eat any sort of crap to put on weight. By the same token, clean food won’t make you fat or add fat, it will likely reduce fat even if you are eating to bulk.
Thank you pat36.
I do eat clean 90% of the time, the hard part is that the scale weight, at least with me, doesnt go up quick… but i do see constant improvements on the mirror and on the weight room, so i guess its all ok.
[/quote]
And Brazil has some of the best meat in the world!!! Eat the meat!!
Hey, are anabolics legal with out a prescription there? Just asking…
And Brazil has some of the best meat in the world!!! Eat the meat!!
Hey, are anabolics legal with out a prescription there? Just asking…[/quote]
That i didnt knew. the best meat?
Yup, if you can get a prescription, anabolics are legal if i remember correctly. The lack of direct contact these days with users make hard for me to say.
But… steroid law around this parts is not severe as in the states.
Prisions due to steroids happen more in the “high society” places of a given state.
More to feed the media than anything.
You have nothing to cut down to. You can lose 30lbs and you still won’t have a six pack. I see skinny/fat people do this all of the time. Spend the next year working on proper training and eating habits, and you will most likely lose some fat and gain some muscle along the way.
Bulk up or get lean? Probably depends on what you want more right now. Suppose you were getting married tomorrow, or going to your high school reunion, or insert what ever major event you would want to look good at. If you had a choice between magically getting lean (with the same muscle as you have now) or magically getting more muscle (with the same body fat % as you have now), which would you choose?
If getting lean is most important to you, you may get discouraged and quit if you choose to bulk up and your body fat actually goes up (which can happen even on a clean bulking diet to some people). On the other hand, if getting strong or muscular is most important, you may be disheartened when you loose strength or muscle (which can happen if your diet supports fat loss but not muscle maintenance).
I would like to warn you about the seduction of burning fat and gaining muscle at the same time. It is possible for some, but it is very hard, and even those who can do it often give up because of the difficulty and/or slow results.
In order to loose fat, you have to eat a diet with a large enough caloric deficit (at least when combined with exercise) to promote burning fat. To build muscle, you not only need extra protein, but a caloric surplus to support building muscle. Although it sounds impossible (how can you have an energy deficit for fat loss and energy surplus for muscle at the same time?), it is possible, but it is much harder than just loosing weight or just gaining muscle. Bear with me and I’ll explain why it is so difficult.
Your body gets energy from two sources: stored fat and blood sugar (which comes from food, mostly carbohydrates). Your body is using stored fat energy and dietary carb energy all the time, but not always in equal amounts. Exercising tends to make you burn more fat energy and eating tends to raise blood sugar so you are burning more carbs. Eating a lot of carbs (especially simple sugars) causes insulin spikes that actually makes your body store food energy as new fat deposits.
What you need to do is exercise enough to burn fat at a higher rate, and also cause enough stress in your muscles to trigger hypertrophy. At the same time, you need to eat enough protein and carbs to support building muscle, but not so much that you will store more fat than you are loosing. Sound complicated? It is. Sound hard to pull off? It is. Of course, people who are successful at loosing weight and building muscle at the same time don’t need to know all the details to get the job done. All they need to do is work hard and eat right.
Loosing fat is hard. Gaining muscle is hard. Doing them at the same time is very hard. Fair warning.
I hope you do what is right for you, and I hope you meet your goals. Success is not a matter of chance or luck - it is a matter of time and patience.
So what happened? What did you (or didn’t you) do over the last 6 months? Were you lifting at all? What was your diet like? Obviously whatever it was didn’t work. I’m not having a go at you - but you’ve got to learn from it. Don’t let the next 6 months play out the same way as the last 6 did.
Forget the V-Diet … The Cheat to Lose Diet will be so much better for an out of shape beginner. I highly recommend you buy the book.
Find a beginner’s program on the site and start it - something like CW’s Big Boy Basics should be fine.