[quote]rxghost wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
rxghost wrote:
wayyy too many saturated fats,
How does a vegetarian get too much saturated fat? They’re fairly rare in plant products, and with a diet you described I doubt you were getting too much coconut oil.
And saturated fat isn’t bad for you. It makes testosterone.
the veggie burgers i had contained some saturated fats; cheeses (paneer); smartones pasta products… get the drift?
[/quote]
So you were a vegetarian . . who ate no vegetables?
[quote]dylan10507 wrote:
O woops sorry brant drake already said what I said sorry I only read the first page. Also you have a terrible attitude I am glad you are getting what you deseve because you look horrible.[/quote]
excuse me? how the hell do i have a terrible attitude, and what’s up with the cruelty? I simply came in here asking for help; and don’t get me wrong… i’ve gotten tons of great advice, but most of the responses (+1 for you) have been fucking childish to be honest.
[quote]Brant_Drake wrote:
rxghost wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
rxghost wrote:
wayyy too many saturated fats,
How does a vegetarian get too much saturated fat? They’re fairly rare in plant products, and with a diet you described I doubt you were getting too much coconut oil.
And saturated fat isn’t bad for you. It makes testosterone.
the veggie burgers i had contained some saturated fats; cheeses (paneer); smartones pasta products… get the drift?
So you were a vegetarian . . who ate no vegetables?[/quote]
i obviously did, but processed diet foods were a huge part of my diet before I made the changes.
[quote]rxghost wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
rxghost wrote:
Brant_Drake wrote:
rxghost wrote:
wayyy too many saturated fats,
How does a vegetarian get too much saturated fat? They’re fairly rare in plant products, and with a diet you described I doubt you were getting too much coconut oil.
And saturated fat isn’t bad for you. It makes testosterone.
the veggie burgers i had contained some saturated fats; cheeses (paneer); smartones pasta products… get the drift?
So you were a vegetarian . . who ate no vegetables?
[/quote]
i obviously did, but processed diet foods were a huge part of my diet before I made the changes. Also, I think you’re confusing vegetarians with vegans.
[quote]rxghost wrote:
ds77 wrote:
Any reason why you cant get protein from whey also as it only involves distillation from milk and not the killing of an animal… or is it just that eggs are better protein source?
I think increasing your protein intake is important; whey maybe a cost effective way to up your intake and you could use it in combination with egg protein…
i’m already getting enough protein… in fact. i’m getting more protein than i should… about 192 grams of it. I just have to fix up my diet and get rid of the soy products.[/quote]
Actually, 1 gram for each lbs. of bodyweight is the MINIMUM, not maximum. And more protein will only help you because the paucity of animal products in your diet means that your protein aren’t as bioavailable as the plant products that you are consuming. You’ll want to cover your bases as much as possible.
[quote]BF Bullpup wrote:
rxghost wrote:
ds77 wrote:
Any reason why you cant get protein from whey also as it only involves distillation from milk and not the killing of an animal… or is it just that eggs are better protein source?
I think increasing your protein intake is important; whey maybe a cost effective way to up your intake and you could use it in combination with egg protein…
i’m already getting enough protein… in fact. i’m getting more protein than i should… about 192 grams of it. I just have to fix up my diet and get rid of the soy products.
Actually, 1 gram for each lbs. of bodyweight is the MINIMUM, not maximum. And more protein will only help you because the paucity of animal products in your diet means that your protein aren’t as bioavailable as the plant products that you are consuming. You’ll want to cover your bases as much as possible.[/quote]
i’m about 155 lbs… wouldn’t 192 grams be more than enough? how much more should i increase it by?
[quote]rxghost wrote:
i’m about 155 lbs… wouldn’t 192 grams be more than enough? how much more should i increase it by?
[/quote]
Nah, no need to increase. It’s just that the vibe I get from what you’ve written is that you think that you’re taking in way too much protein. Unless you live in a slaughterhouse, you can’t get too much.
I forgot to chime in that you should be doing free weights too.
If you love machines too much to give them up, at least look into High Intensity Training. It sucks for gaining muscles [I would know, did it for two years] but it is good for maintenance and/or fat loss.
I’m more concerned about your training routine than your nutrition. I tried what you had as your routine several years ago and couldn’t gain muscles beyond newbie gains. Unless you look like you belong in the front cover of Flex magazine, don’t try the routines in there. The routines in this site… you may have to wade through the occasional advertisement, but I’ve been able to get measurable results from them.
Nice to see another desi here. Welcome, bro.
IF youre getting veggie burgers, make sure you get the gardenburger ones which don;t have soy.
Aim to get around 160-200g protein, buyt try to drink milk in the morning meal rather than later in the day.
MAke sure youre getting proper PWO nutrition, if youre strapped for cash look for cheap tubs of whey protein at Sam’s club if its nearby.
I would do ONLY free weights while building a foundation, and then add in machine work.
Losing fat at this point is not a good option for you, focus on lean mass gains for a year or two.
Try Waterbury’s stuff to begin with, particularly ABBH and Big Boy Basics and once you build up some solid free weight bench, squat and deadlift numbers you can focus on hypertrophy and/or fat loss.
Read articles by Berardi and Thibaudeau to get your bases covered on nutrition and controlling fat gains while adding mass.
Give something like TRIBEX a try (sold here I believe) since you may have estrogen-related issues and that will help you greatly. Whole eggs, whey, peanuts, mixed nuts, fat-free cheese, soy-free veggie burgers, AND fish oil capsules will greatly help your goals.
BE consistent for at least a year…before taking a planned/unplanned break.
Be nice to the people here…and they will help you a lot as you progress.
Good luck.
[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
Nice to see another desi here. Welcome, bro.
IF youre getting veggie burgers, make sure you get the gardenburger ones which don;t have soy.
Aim to get around 160-200g protein, buyt try to drink milk in the morning meal rather than later in the day.
MAke sure youre getting proper PWO nutrition, if youre strapped for cash look for cheap tubs of whey protein at Sam’s club if its nearby.
I would do ONLY free weights while building a foundation, and then add in machine work.
Losing fat at this point is not a good option for you, focus on lean mass gains for a year or two.
Try Waterbury’s stuff to begin with, particularly ABBH and Big Boy Basics and once you build up some solid free weight bench, squat and deadlift numbers you can focus on hypertrophy and/or fat loss.
Read articles by Berardi and Thibaudeau to get your bases covered on nutrition and controlling fat gains while adding mass.
Give something like TRIBEX a try (sold here I believe) since you may have estrogen-related issues and that will help you greatly. Whole eggs, whey, peanuts, mixed nuts, fat-free cheese, soy-free veggie burgers, AND fish oil capsules will greatly help your goals.
BE consistent for at least a year…before taking a planned/unplanned break.
Be nice to the people here…and they will help you a lot as you progress.
Good luck.[/quote]
thanks a lot for the info man…will check out TRIBEX…
one thing though…
i looked up the gardenburgers online which claim to be soy free… but the ingrediants still list soy in them
Ingredients
Cooked Brown Rice, Broccoli, Carrots, Onions, Corn, Rolled Oats, Water, Bell Peppers (Red, Green), Isolated Soy Protein, Oat Fiber, Ground Flax Seed, Water Chestnuts, High Oleic Canola Oil, Salt, Dried Onion, Black Olives, Vegetable Gum, Natural Flavor Enhancer (Soy Sauce [Fermented Soybeans, Salt], Salt, Yeast Extract, Yeast Extract Powder), Dried Garlic, Yeast Extract, Caramel Color, Spices, Natural Flavor, Dried Broccoli, Dried Tomato, Dried Bell Pepper, Dried Mushroom, Dried Asparagus.
Contains Soy.
I’m currently eating about 2000ish calories on my more intense lifting days (mon, wed, fri) and about 1860 calories on the rest. I really want to get down to at least 10-12% bf first before adding more mass… my main goal is to lose the belly ABOVE all things. I’ll start adding in free weights next week to my routine.
Sorry about that, it turns out that Gardenburger makes two soy-free burgers (I used them when I was a herbivore till around a year back, ha). I’ll check online and let you know which ones in a while. In the meantime, I don;t think you shd panic about having a soy burger every once in a while, just don;t let that be your main source of protein every day, thats all.
Also see if you can add bagged veggies to your daily diet (broccoli, brussels sprouts and cauliflower above all) if your finances allow it.
[quote]rxghost wrote:
rbpowerhouse wrote:
Nice to see another desi here. Welcome, bro.
IF youre getting veggie burgers, make sure you get the gardenburger ones which don;t have soy.
Aim to get around 160-200g protein, buyt try to drink milk in the morning meal rather than later in the day.
MAke sure youre getting proper PWO nutrition, if youre strapped for cash look for cheap tubs of whey protein at Sam’s club if its nearby.
I would do ONLY free weights while building a foundation, and then add in machine work.
Losing fat at this point is not a good option for you, focus on lean mass gains for a year or two.
Try Waterbury’s stuff to begin with, particularly ABBH and Big Boy Basics and once you build up some solid free weight bench, squat and deadlift numbers you can focus on hypertrophy and/or fat loss.
Read articles by Berardi and Thibaudeau to get your bases covered on nutrition and controlling fat gains while adding mass.
Give something like TRIBEX a try (sold here I believe) since you may have estrogen-related issues and that will help you greatly. Whole eggs, whey, peanuts, mixed nuts, fat-free cheese, soy-free veggie burgers, AND fish oil capsules will greatly help your goals.
BE consistent for at least a year…before taking a planned/unplanned break.
Be nice to the people here…and they will help you a lot as you progress.
Good luck.
thanks a lot for the info man…will check out TRIBEX…
one thing though…
i looked up the gardenburgers online which claim to be soy free… but the ingrediants still list soy in them
Ingredients
Cooked Brown Rice, Broccoli, Carrots, Onions, Corn, Rolled Oats, Water, Bell Peppers (Red, Green), Isolated Soy Protein, Oat Fiber, Ground Flax Seed, Water Chestnuts, High Oleic Canola Oil, Salt, Dried Onion, Black Olives, Vegetable Gum, Natural Flavor Enhancer (Soy Sauce [Fermented Soybeans, Salt], Salt, Yeast Extract, Yeast Extract Powder), Dried Garlic, Yeast Extract, Caramel Color, Spices, Natural Flavor, Dried Broccoli, Dried Tomato, Dried Bell Pepper, Dried Mushroom, Dried Asparagus.
Contains Soy.
I’m currently eating about 2000ish calories on my more intense lifting days (mon, wed, fri) and about 1860 calories on the rest. I really want to get down to at least 10-12% bf first before adding more mass… my main goal is to lose the belly ABOVE all things. I’ll start adding in free weights next week to my routine.[/quote]
this is a soy free protein blend right?
gnc.com/sm-optimum-nutrition-100-whey-
gold-standard-chocolate-malt–pi-3017366.html
I used to look similar to you when I was in my early teens. I also come from a family that eats largely vegetarian (they are East Indian, and I assume you are from your pic). I used to eat like you. I used to do lots of cardio like you. I also used to look like shit, just like you. I know lots of East Indian males that eat a vegetarian or a low-meat diet. Guess what? They all look like shit.
Heres the truth: no matter how much you enjoy the vegetarian “lifestyle” (whatever the hell that means) you will not make nearly as much quality gains eating that rabbit food garden shit. Vegetables are good, don’t get me wrong, but animal flesh is the building block of a good solid physique.
Seriously rethink your vegetarian choice (are you just eating that way cause your parents eat that way?). Plus, I never understood how you can be vegetarian but still eat eggs. And for god’s sake, stop convincing yourself you don’t need to lift heavy ass weights yet. If I were you I’d drop the cardio and just start lifting heavy ass weights. Thats all the stimulation your body will need (will be able to handle).
I think the reason you are getting lots of shit is that you came in here with that horror of a picture asking for advice, yet you blow off anyone that gives you any good advice. I can’t believe someone told you to lift free weights and you told them you don’t need to. If you keep trying to lose weight at your size without attempting to pack on some quality muscle you are just gonna look even worse. You are 156 friggen pounds for god’s sake. Trust me, you aren’t going to get ripped before you do a clean bulk becuase you have nothing to get ripped on. You will just look like a starving refugee.
[quote]fatcat wrote:
I used to look similar to you when I was in my early teens. I also come from a family that eats largely vegetarian (they are East Indian, and I assume you are from your pic). I used to eat like you. I used to do lots of cardio like you. I also used to look like shit, just like you. I know lots of East Indian males that eat a vegetarian or a low-meat diet. Guess what? They all look like shit.
Heres the truth: no matter how much you enjoy the vegetarian “lifestyle” (whatever the hell that means) you will not make nearly as much quality gains eating that rabbit food garden shit. Vegetables are good, don’t get me wrong, but animal flesh is the building block of a good solid physique.
Seriously rethink your vegetarian choice (are you just eating that way cause your parents eat that way?). Plus, I never understood how you can be vegetarian but still eat eggs. And for god’s sake, stop convincing yourself you don’t need to lift heavy ass weights yet. If I were you I’d drop the cardio and just start lifting heavy ass weights. Thats all the stimulation your body will need (will be able to handle).
I think the reason you are getting lots of shit is that you came in here with that horror of a picture asking for advice, yet you blow off anyone that gives you any good advice. I can’t believe someone told you to lift free weights and you told them you don’t need to. If you keep trying to lose weight at your size without attempting to pack on some quality muscle you are just gonna look even worse. You are 156 friggen pounds for god’s sake. Trust me, you aren’t going to get ripped before you do a clean bulk becuase you have nothing to get ripped on. You will just look like a starving refugee. [/quote]
I’m a vegetarian and will always be… deal with it. You could write an entire book trying to convince me to eat meat; I won’t give two shits … building muscle is definately possible as a vegetarian. The only reason I got the fat around my stomach like this was because of bad eating habits (fast foods, etc), crash dieting, and lack of good nutritional knowledge; not because of my vegetarianism. I probably would have been 5x fatter if I was eating meat instead of vegetarian foods a few years back.
Also, why don’t people speak badly of the V-diet, yet always love to shit on vegetarians?
I’m already lifting heavy as I can for now (doing 3 sets of 8-10 at the highest weight I can)… just on machines for this week. Also, I think I’ll stick with my cardio. You obviously don’t know how effective HIIT is for fat loss while still preserving muscle.
I didn’t blow anyone off… some of you guys are the ones giving me shit about being a vegetarian. I was simply saying that weight machines would still help me lose fat…obviously free weights are superior in every form, but the machines are still effective. Anyways, I’m going to mix the two up starting next week. (currently looking through routines on this site and others).
I think this thread has been helpful more than anything.
Also, I’m not trying to get ‘ripped’…I just want to preserve the little muscle I still have while gaining maybe a few pounds of muscle, and dropping the extra fat around my stomach. I’m not going to bulk yet; it’s not my current goal… first lose the fat, then bulk… got it?
It’s been beaten to death already, but I’ll give it a shot too: You need to be using free weights.
A couple reasons why:
1.) Free weights burn more calories than equivalent machine exercises.
2.) Machines are largely isolation exercises (i.e. they work a small amount of muscle, which leads to a small calorie burn); with free weights you can do big, compound movements like squats and deads that burn a ton of calories.
3.) Free weights result in better coordination and improved body control and posture.
4.) Working large amounts of muscle mass (i.e. compound movements like squats and deads) results in greater hormone release than machine work.
I don’t care if you’re a veggie, but for fuck’s sake, drop the machines and get under a bar.
From what I’ve been reading as this thread has continued you might want to go down the V-Diet rout. It’s going to be the fastest way for you to lose fat without losing any muscle you have.
Fatcat: you are an idiot
YOur dietary choices are your own, and people have said what they felt was necessary to be said.
Personally I see where fatcat is coming from, in any weight room 'Ive visited the desis (Indians particularly) stand out for the wrong reason (building ENTIRE routines around bicep curls, endo-ecto “feminine” torsos with skinny limbs, small frames and bellies, an addiction to steady state cardio and a general propensity to gain fat while not building muscle possibly exaggerated by their aversion to consuming animal protein)
and I also agree with the idea of meat being a vital part of creating a good physique but I do realize the issues involved with a desi background with semi-religious reasons being the root of your family’s vegetarianism, EVEN if you and your parents are not particularly religious.
Bill Pearl built his muscles on flesh and eschewed it later on btw successfully MAINTAINING his muscle mass, which is NOT the same…and Bill Goldberg uses the same principles AFAIK.
BUT it stands to reason that you can go quite far with a vegetarian diet by paying very careful attention to protein, get enough saturated fat and cholesterol, be careful with carbs and soy, and get lots of EFAs (fish oil is a MUST for you imo) and flax, nuts, etc.
The V-Diet while a very wonderful tool to cut down when you have sufficient muscle mass OR are obese is no for you at this stage, begin with a clean slate and focus on building muscle, getting 6-8 meals a day, sufficient protein intake within the confines of a lactoovovegetarian diet…etc etc etc…and do a solid mass building routine for a year or two before even thinking of cutting down.
On a side note, a lot of senior/knowledgeable members have dumped this site for a variety of reasons rather than try to stem the flow of poor advice, and that sucks! Enough with the flame war and defensiveness on this thread now, outline your goals, routine and daily diet and get started.
[quote]rxghost wrote:
fatcat wrote:
I used to look similar to you when I was in my early teens. I also come from a family that eats largely vegetarian (they are East Indian, and I assume you are from your pic). I used to eat like you. I used to do lots of cardio like you. I also used to look like shit, just like you. I know lots of East Indian males that eat a vegetarian or a low-meat diet. Guess what? They all look like shit.
Heres the truth: no matter how much you enjoy the vegetarian “lifestyle” (whatever the hell that means) you will not make nearly as much quality gains eating that rabbit food garden shit. Vegetables are good, don’t get me wrong, but animal flesh is the building block of a good solid physique.
Seriously rethink your vegetarian choice (are you just eating that way cause your parents eat that way?). Plus, I never understood how you can be vegetarian but still eat eggs. And for god’s sake, stop convincing yourself you don’t need to lift heavy ass weights yet. If I were you I’d drop the cardio and just start lifting heavy ass weights. Thats all the stimulation your body will need (will be able to handle).
I think the reason you are getting lots of shit is that you came in here with that horror of a picture asking for advice, yet you blow off anyone that gives you any good advice. I can’t believe someone told you to lift free weights and you told them you don’t need to. If you keep trying to lose weight at your size without attempting to pack on some quality muscle you are just gonna look even worse. You are 156 friggen pounds for god’s sake. Trust me, you aren’t going to get ripped before you do a clean bulk becuase you have nothing to get ripped on. You will just look like a starving refugee.
I’m a vegetarian and will always be… deal with it. You could write an entire book trying to convince me to eat meat; I won’t give two shits … building muscle is definately possible as a vegetarian. The only reason I got the fat around my stomach like this was because of bad eating habits (fast foods, etc), crash dieting, and lack of good nutritional knowledge; not because of my vegetarianism. I probably would have been 5x fatter if I was eating meat instead of vegetarian foods a few years back.
Also, why don’t people speak badly of the V-diet, yet always love to shit on vegetarians?
I’m already lifting heavy as I can for now (doing 3 sets of 8-10 at the highest weight I can)… just on machines for this week. Also, I think I’ll stick with my cardio. You obviously don’t know how effective HIIT is for fat loss while still preserving muscle.
I didn’t blow anyone off… some of you guys are the ones giving me shit about being a vegetarian. I was simply saying that weight machines would still help me lose fat…obviously free weights are superior in every form, but the machines are still effective. Anyways, I’m going to mix the two up starting next week. (currently looking through routines on this site and others).
I think this thread has been helpful more than anything.
Also, I’m not trying to get ‘ripped’…I just want to preserve the little muscle I still have while gaining maybe a few pounds of muscle, and dropping the extra fat around my stomach. I’m not going to bulk yet; it’s not my current goal… first lose the fat, then bulk… got it?
[/quote]
The countries with the really high obesity levels (eg USA, Australia) have high meat consumption. I’m not saying eating meat makes you fat, but people need to think of these things before they insult the cuisines of other regions.
The reason I suggest V-Diet rbpowerhouse is because the OP doesn’t really seem that interested in gaining muscle at this point. He might as well get the best program for what he really wants to do. I do think enough eggs and whey could create a top level physique by providing enough cholesterol, fat and protein. While I eat fish now (and now find getting enough protein extremely easy), I did manage to go from 78kgs to 95kgs with minimal fat gain on a diet where the protein came from whey, cassien and egg protein.
And the people who I see curling only at the gym are indians/whites/mediterraneans, and that covers quite a large cultural and diet related spectrum.
[quote]eigieinhamr wrote:
The countries with the really high obesity levels (eg USA, Australia) have high meat consumption. I’m not saying eating meat makes you fat, but people need to think of these things before they insult the cuisines of other regions.
[/quote]
It’s not meat but fast food, junk food, and gluttony. Don’t blame high meat consumption!
A huge amount of the junk is in the form of fried bad cuts of meat. The kinds of meat people eat mainly in countries with obesity problems present a huge part of the obesity.
Just like a high meat diet doesn’t cause obesity (if you have the right kind of meats, cooked in the right way), a vegetarian diet doesn’t mean a bad body. It’s down to each induvidual diet. Someone might have a diet where their meat choices are terribly bad for them, in the same way vegetarians can make bad choices and have a terrible diet (India, which has a large vegetarian community, has issues with poverty, and therefore the quality of their diet).
Starving Africans that eat nothing but meat from their herds still have a harmfull diet in the same way. Remember vegetarians have been shown to have a longer life span compared to non-vegetarians on average (though I’m not vegetarian on health reasons).
[quote]rxghost wrote:
ok i check my protein intake from the listed meals above:
i’m getting 192.3 grams of protein… which should be enough.
i think i just have to increase calorie intake a bit more.[/quote]
Sorry to bust your ballon here but those 192g of protein are not all usable. If you really want to gain muscle you will have to get AT LEAST half of your protein need from eggs and whey. And I suggest you get the whole amount of your protein requirements from eggs and whey.
Nuts, beans and others are not complete proteins and the body has a harder time assimilating them. I respect your decision to be vegetarian (and I know the difference b/w vegan and vegetarian), however you will have a hard time because your metabolism is not suited for high carb consumption. It is obvious from the pics.