well this thread got ugly quickly
I will personally NEVER cast judgement at another competitor as to whether they’ve had chemical assistance or not, because at the end of the day, some guys just have better genetics, and not only can you not do anything about it, but it’s just bad form.
I will however throw out a few thoughts that ran through my head while reading through this post.
-The guy has built a great physique, no doubt, and I’m very impressed.
-The Musclemania Competitions qre right up there with the Team Universe as far as being drug tested. It’s considered laughable by a good number of WNBF and IFPA Pros and you can find (I won’t help though) guys online who will admit to being ‘on’ something and walking away with a Musclemania title or two.
-Jeff Willet admits being loaded to the gills on the old school pretty powerful pro-hormones, so read into his ‘natural’ status with a grain of salt.
-Jim Cordova competes at or under 160 lbs, with small joints and round muscle bellies. Compare that to someone who is 230 lbs and claims a similar degree of natural-ness and condition.
-Most top WNBF pros (Heavyweights) compete at close to 200 lbs. Occasionally you’ll find a freak who will push 220, but they’re always on the taller side with thick joints, and are true anomalies.
-That’s quite a jump from 2006 to 2009, even with great genetics. One could ask why he apparently ‘stalled’ at his '06 condition before obviously continuing to improve. Kai ‘stalled’ as well before suddenly smashing his plateau and nabbing an IFBB Pro Card. Desmond Miller as well.
-I truly do not care if the guy is clean or not. He’s put in his work. If he’s not, even though the MM officials give him their stamp of approval (whatever clout that carries), then he’s being very disrespectful to those who actually care about natty vs assisted competition.
S
[quote]gregron wrote:
Ok, everyone knows the guys not drug free but can we move past it. Lets not clog this thread up with another drug debate.[/quote]
No, we can’t because he claims he is drug free by competing in drug free competitions, which is bullshit.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I will personally NEVER cast judgement at another competitor as to whether they’ve had chemical assistance or not, because at the end of the day, some guys just have better genetics, and not only can you not do anything about it, but it’s just bad form.
I will however throw out a few thoughts that ran through my head while reading through this post.
-The guy has built a great physique, no doubt, and I’m very impressed.
-The Musclemania Competitions qre right up there with the Team Universe as far as being drug tested. It’s considered laughable by a good number of WNBF and IFPA Pros and you can find (I won’t help though) guys online who will admit to being ‘on’ something and walking away with a Musclemania title or two.
-Jeff Willet admits being loaded to the gills on the old school pretty powerful pro-hormones, so read into his ‘natural’ status with a grain of salt.
-Jim Cordova competes at or under 160 lbs, with small joints and round muscle bellies. Compare that to someone who is 230 lbs and claims a similar degree of natural-ness and condition.
-Most top WNBF pros (Heavyweights) compete at close to 200 lbs. Occasionally you’ll find a freak who will push 220, but they’re always on the taller side with thick joints, and are true anomalies.
-That’s quite a jump from 2006 to 2009, even with great genetics. One could ask why he apparently ‘stalled’ at his '06 condition before obviously continuing to improve. Kai ‘stalled’ as well before suddenly smashing his plateau and nabbing an IFBB Pro Card. Desmond Miller as well.
-I truly do not care if the guy is clean or not. He’s put in his work. If he’s not, even though the MM officials give him their stamp of approval (whatever clout that carries), then he’s being very disrespectful to those who actually care about natty vs assisted competition.
S[/quote]
Great post agree with everything written here.
The only thing i will add is that i don’t think the weight a person competes at is an all encompassing indicator of being drug free like some people make it out to be.
For example take former WNBF pro Shaun “the giant killer” Clarida, who failed to even place in the top 15 in the bantam class last year at the NPC nationals. Now this year he shows up and dominates the bantam weight class and convincingly wins the class walks away with his pro card.
So a natural guy who was already a very seasoned bodybuilder went from not even placing to winning a pro card in 12 months even though his stage weight was basically the exact same as last year his improvements are pretty hard to ignore.
Just something to consider for people who think scale weight is the be all or end all of someone being drug free or not.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
…
-The Musclemania Competitions qre right up there with the Team Universe as far as being drug tested. …
S[/quote]
If Lou Zwick is still running that show, I’m not surprised.
That guy has an incredible physique. I do think that is attainable naturally for some genetic freaks out there. Really hard to say either way if he is natty or not.
How in the hell do you keep your waist that small if you’re a man that size?
[quote]csulli wrote:
How in the hell do you keep your waist that small if you’re a man that size?[/quote]
I think it’s because he avoids “waist-thickening exercises” like heavy squats and heavy deads.
ahhh, but pseudopro bb posters on this site told me my gut would stick out if I gained significant mass
[quote]csulli wrote:
How in the hell do you keep your waist that small if you’re a man that size?[/quote]
Luck of the genetic draw.
S
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I think people under estimate what can be done naturally.
The guy is 6’1 ffs. [/quote]
i also think you over estimate what a natty is capable of. i dont want to start another genetic limit debate. but he is not natty, if you think anyone could look tht natty your dreaming.
[quote]csulli wrote:
How in the hell do you keep your waist that small if you’re a man that size?[/quote]
Your waist size is largely dictated by your pelvic structure and bodyfat level. He obviously has a very, VERY narrow pelvis coupled with a very low bodyfat level. Yet he has the propensity to support large musculature everywhere else which contributes greatly to this unique look.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I think people under estimate what can be done naturally.
The guy is 6’1 ffs. [/quote]
i also think you over estimate what a natty is capable of. i dont want to start another genetic limit debate. but he is not natty, if you think anyone could look tht natty your dreaming.[/quote]
it’s like no1 has ever met a big guy before.
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I think people under estimate what can be done naturally.
The guy is 6’1 ffs. [/quote]
i also think you over estimate what a natty is capable of. i dont want to start another genetic limit debate. but he is not natty, if you think anyone could look tht natty your dreaming.[/quote]
I am starting to wonder if the 96 in your username stands for the year you were born. I personally know a guy from the DRC who is very lean, the same height as Simeon and maybe 10lbs less; he’s natural 100%. Please do not get so vitriolic about what people “can and cannot” know. It’s absurd to say that it can be ascertained whether a lifter is natural or assisted by sight alone. You speak as if everyone was born with the same genetics. It’s simply not true.
As for my opinion on the guy, well, I really don’t care about it unless he’s lying to the federation and his competitors regarding use. I couldn’t look like him even if I had all the gear in the world. I hope to see more of him in the future if he’s still going at it.
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
[quote]Marzouk wrote:
I think people under estimate what can be done naturally.
The guy is 6’1 ffs. [/quote]
i also think you over estimate what a natty is capable of. i dont want to start another genetic limit debate. but he is not natty, if you think anyone could look tht natty your dreaming.[/quote]
it’s like no1 has ever met a big guy before. [/quote]
hahaha ive met plenty of big guys, the really big guys i talk to are very open about gear use. the improvements he made in that time frame werent done natty, even looking at the finished product he isnt natty. how many people herehave a clue about anything steroid, GH, PH or insulin related. because at the moment i feel like im arguing people that think almost anything is possible natty with a little hard work… please grow up.
If he says he’s natural, he’s natural in my book. Why should I care anyway? Why do YOU care?
It cracks me up that there are a few purple here saying “I know a guy who’s almost his size and definitely natural…”. Bullshit. First, the guy(s) you know might be big, but they’re nowhere near this dudes size or condition, and second, how do you know they’re natural? 'cause they told you they were? Do you know what they do when they’re not at the gym? People lie nonstop, especially when it’s to make themselves look “better”.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
It cracks me up that there are a few purple here saying “I know a guy who’s almost his size and definitely natural…”. Bullshit. First, the guy(s) you know might be big, but they’re nowhere near this dudes size or condition, and second, how do you know they’re natural? 'cause they told you they were? Do you know what they do when they’re not at the gym? People lie nonstop, especially when it’s to make themselves look “better”.[/quote]
thank you, someone with half a brain. just because someone says there natty doesnt mean they fucking are. do you know ronnie coleman claims to have never taken a steroid, he must be natty right because why would he lie.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
It cracks me up that there are a few purple here saying “I know a guy who’s almost his size and definitely natural…”. Bullshit. First, the guy(s) you know might be big, but they’re nowhere near this dudes size or condition, and second, how do you know they’re natural? 'cause they told you they were? Do you know what they do when they’re not at the gym? People lie nonstop, especially when it’s to make themselves look “better”.[/quote]
Maybe because it’s a close friend I’ve known for years? I’ve known him since before he got into lifting and have witnessed his potential first hand. I can’t if say Simeon is or isn’t on gear, but I’ve got a pretty good handle on people I’m close with and see regularly.
I’m not asking you to believe me, I’m saying that I have no reason to assume that Mr. Panda is on something just because he “looks like it.” There are freaks all over the world and SOMEONE’s gotta be the freakiest.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
If he says he’s natural, he’s natural in my book. Why should I care anyway? Why do YOU care?[/quote]
congrats on being very gullible, i care because he competes in natty shows when he obviously isnt natty. yet every idiot here beleieves he is natty just because he claims to be, mind you these are the same people that think that jeff willet (IFBB pro) is natty hahaha.