Back in town. That was a great week. It was our global sales meeting. Allow me to boast: I received the company’s award for largest global impact in the last year. I was absolutely accepting on behalf of my team, whom I sincerely adore, and the support I got from every person there was incredible. It absolutely made (far more than just) my night. My boss good-naturedly “shamed” me into staying out late (normally I don’t), so yesterday was a rough flight home!
Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming: the gym. I am back in the “commit to a program” mindset, because it’s such an absolute difference-maker for me. I haven’t recently given one of the high-frequency builds a fair/ complete go, and I wanted shorter, less heavy, workouts, so I’m going to kick off with John’s “Taskmaster” program (plus the cover art is cool). This one has been sitting on the shelf forever; I’ve just never actually decided to knock it out.
Today kicked off the back block
MB Slams
3 x 3
Meadows Row
-/8
25/6
50/4
60/8 x 3
Still using the handle on these and the next exercise; I like it
Pull downs
Emphasized the stretch for a couple seconds.
I used the MAG knockoff handle the gym bought. I like it, but it’s definitely not as good as the real thing. I still prefer it to a straight bar.
35/6
50/12 x 3
Hanging Leg Raise
4 sets
Toe Press
4 sets of 10 reps + 10 partials + 10s stretch
I don’t really like our standing calf machine, my feet slip off, so I did these. I like standing, so maybe I’ll go do them in the smith with toes on plates next time.
Basketball yesterday was fun, but I wore out pretty quickly. I think I was just tired; I don’t think it’s indicative of any bigger conditioning issue. The answer is the same either way: play more.
Today was a “quick” leg workout before volleyball. I’m sprinting over to watch in a minute, so I’ll write it down later, but the gist is squats are not feeling good lately. This happens now and again, so I think it’s time to just break it down to 135 and get a bunch of solid reps and work back up slowly.
This log is just turning into a brag sheet, but my daughter just had her best game yet. She got to play the position she’s been wanting (setter) because the starter is sick. I’ve been telling her for two years all you can do is be ready and when you get an opportunity, play so well the coach has no choice but to keep you there. She just did. Had the game of her life and the coach came off saying, “ok; we found our spring setter.”
She does have to keep it up the rest of the weekend, though. I always sucked mentally when I got into the “just don’t screw it up” situations. Hopefully she’s stronger than me there.
Ok, so we had a death in the family that’s creating some travel I didn’t anticipate, so my next couple weeks’ training might look weird.
I also talked a lot of trash to a couple friends I’ll see in May, so now I have to lose some weight. That’s a fun motivator, though. I enjoy that stuff, and timing is perfect.
I want to be @T3hPwnisher when I grow up, so we’ll see what training looks like. I’ve also, as always, noticed I look more jacked when missing a couple days… reminding me whatever I think is “enough” is, in fact, “too much.” Most things training have been great the last few months, though, so I’m unworried about this; it will shake out.
I do want to give this carnivore diet a go, though (@QuadQueen - earmuffs). If you’re telling me I just eat more of the stuff I want and things get better, let’s roll. My main two concerns have always been:
Cardiovascular concerns. I have some issues anyway, so I don’t want to see bad blood markers. I am starting to think there was some more acute injury, though, because my BP, RHR, and time to exhaustion have all significantly improved recently. On top of that, @T3hPwnisher’s markers are all better than mine, and I’m aware he had somewhat similar concerns a couple years ago. I think losing weight solves 90% of this stuff, so I consider this risk mitigated (and I’ll monitor anyway).
I always felt like shit and underperformed when going into ketosis. That’s still something of a concern, but I just don’t care. As noted, my training will be weird a little anyway, so I won’t notice early. I also always have a dip when I start limiting calories, so it’s likely these variables have just trended together.
This feels like an easy way to stay on plan when on the road, without looking like a weirdo and making everyone uncomfortable. I recognize it’s trendy to not care and my goals, bro, and all that… but in real life I simply don’t want coworkers and family members thinking I have some nutritional needs they aren’t accounting for and they need to accommodate me - I am always happy to order steak and skip the salad, though, and that’s well on-brand!
Do I need to “worry” about anything? Like 90% lean beef instead of 80% kind of things?
Do you see a need to supplement anything specifically? Like minerals or fiber?
Any tips for the first few days adapting into what I assume will be uncomfortable for me? I am coming from a higher carb background, although I’ve dropped it a bit lately.
What’s not on the menu? Like is some bacon “in the spirit”? I see conflicting opinions on some dairy like cheese.
I’m sure I’ll have tons more questions as I get going and actually live this, but that’s where I start. Please don’t feel like you need to respond with a novel; I’m sure you’ve answered all of these elsewhere.
Dude, it means SO much that you reached out to me in this way. I consider you a brother, and being able to help in any way is an honor for me.
In turn, I apologize for just sending you a youtube video of Dr. Berry before: I didn’t understand the depths of your request, and I’d absolutely love to share more. I’ll answer first based on my own experience/observations, and then give you some folks to look into for reading.
And in that regard, I’m about to send a HUGE wall of text your way, haha.
First
Totally relate. My most recent growth spurt has come from training LESS. There IS a time and a place for insanity, but all things are leading somewhere. We train too hard SO THAT when we train “too easy” we supercompensate and grow. That theme will come by later.
Regarding the two main concerns:
Point One: I can only speak to blood pressure and RHR, as I haven’t had blood lipids performed in over a year, BUT those two things are doing absolutely fantastic. From what I’ve read, LDL tends to go up on a carnivore approach BUT do does HDL, while triglycerides go down, so the ratios improve. It really depends on what you’re going for.
Regarding the second point: ketosis isn’t required for carnivore. There is an issue where those two things get conflated, and people end up chasing that ketosis dragon and falling for all the keto traps. Carnivore is just about NOT eating plants and, therefore, eating animals/animal products. And it’s primarily a way of healing. It’s an elimination diet, where you reset to ground zero and, from there, can start re-introducing stuff and seeing how you react. Some folks stay strict carnivore forever, some folks introduce it for 90 days and start including some low inflammation plants. Ultimately, that’s the big thing: reduce inflammation, as it tends to be a source of many maladies (to include those cardiovascular concerns).
Long winded way to say: you don’t HAVE to be in ketosis. Milk would be a way to get in some carbs, if that’s a goal. And even excessive protein can kick you out of ketosis, which I don’t see as a bad thing at all, especially for a lifter.
Concur, with a caveat. “Hardcore” carnivores will try to avoid all plants all the time, TO INCLUDE the seed oils that are VERY popular in restaurant cooking, and all the seasonings as well. When possible, I ask for my food to be cooked in butter vs oil, but as someone who served you’ll appreciate the notion that “we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good”. One of my favorite Bell Brother’s quote is “you’re always one meal away from being back on the diet”
Yes, with a “but”. It’s really a diet of what you DON’T eat: plants. That leaves (HAH: a pun!) you with animals, and animal products (dairy primarily, to include cheese, cream, and milk). You’ll discover that plants are in EVERYTHING. The biggest culprit is seasonings and spices. They’re a no go. Salt is fine, because it’s a mineral: not a plant. In addition, we NEED salt as a species. And you’d want to include electrolytes with those salts, because on a diet deficient in plants and carbs, you’ll find that it’s hard to hold onto water, which can results in super lower blood pressure/head spins/weakness in training and some GI issues. Electrolytes help.
I have a crusade against seasonings for other reasons: they artificially enhance the palatability of food. This is a way of eating where you DON’T count calories, weigh or measure anything. You saw some of the plates of food I was putting away on my cruise: I was literally eating until food just plain sounded like an AWFUL idea to me. I ate until I was uninterested in food. That WILL happen when you don’t season food. When you are hungry, your body is saying “I require nutrients”. Your hunger hormones and satiety signals understand what meat and eggs are/are supposed to taste like, and once it’s had enough of them it says “ok, stop eating dummy: we don’t need nutrients any more”. When you CHANGE how food tastes to make it more delicious, you override these senses and the body says “I don’t know WHAT this stuff is but it’s AMAZING and we should eat ALL of it before it goes away: who knows when we’ll ever see THIS again”. It’s why we have a “dessert stomach”. You can eat 2-3lbs of ribeye and just plain be “done”, but someone slides grandma’s old fashioned pumpkin pie in front of you and you find room for 3 slices.
I do, yes, but that’s a me thing. I still co-opt Jamie Lewis’ “Apex Predator Diet” into this, which is also why I still do protein shakes during the week. But I’ve done weeks without the refeed. I can typically get away with it during “feasting” periods, but when I do it during famines, I tend to get pretty flat.
Since carbs will be minimal, you’ll become fat adapted, meaning fat will be your primary fuel source. In that regard, fattier meats tend to be more ideal to leaner meats. Or butter can be used as a fat source as well. That BBBE challenged I linked you lays out a solid foundation of choices to pick from as far as food choices, if ever in doubt. All THAT said, with cardiovascular concerns being highlighted, you can always take a page from John Meadows/Jon Andersen and eat lean meat and high quality fat sources. So like, you could buy cheap ground beef, boil it, drain it, and mix it with grassfed butter and pasture raised eggs to get in a higher quality fat source, or, of course, eat grassfed meat. Ruminant animals tend to be preferred to fowl/swine, as they tend to produce a more nutrient rich meat.
This is a zero fiber diet. It sounds nutty, but my digestion got the best when I stopped using supplemental fiber. Much like my most recent “in context” post, I think fiber is important in a standard american diet because we eat so much junk that we NEED that fiber to push it all out of us. When you eat a diet that produces minimal waste, fiber becomes unimportant. I eat organ meats to get in my minerals, but I also make use of SuperFood to make sure my bases are all covered.
Stay on top of electrolytes and hydration. Your system will be flushing water out. Think about where plants are in your life that might seem hidden (like coffee, for instance). Try to limit artificial sweeteners: it’s not about ketosis, but about getting away from plants, and those sweeteners can upset your guts.
The big thing is that this is a diet of healing, so what’s “not on the menu” is the stuff that harms you. For me, I eat cheese sparingly, not because it’s “bad”, but (again, “in context”), it’s too easy for me to overeat. It does NOT trigger my satiety signals: I can just eat and eat and eat cheese, and it’s so calorie dense that it gives me more energy than I need. Bacon can be a poor choice because it can get cured in sugar, and the “uncured” stuff uses celery powder/juice because they are a natural nitrate. But again: we can’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
I had an absolute blast answering these questions dude, and will love to keep doing that. Let me give you a VERY quick primer, which comes straight from “Chaos is the plan”.
Eat meat and eggs, when hungry, until not. You can extrapolate “meat and eggs” to be “animal foods”, but the “when hungry until not” is key. You will no longer be beholden to “eating times”. You’ll be able to fast effortlessly. It won’t be martyrdom: you’ll simply STOP being hungry. Because, again, hunger is your body saying “give me nutrients”, and our food sources are so nutrient POOR that you can eat until your stomach is full and STILL not trigger satiety, because your body says “I don’t know what that was, but it wasn’t food and I STLL want food”. When you start eating a diet of ONLY real food, the body stops being so damn hungry.
If you want some more reading, Dr Shawn Baker quite literally wrote the book on the Carnivore Diet, and he’s a fantastic source. Dr. Ken Berry is super awesome for “down to earth” approaches to Carnivore, and definitely envelops that “family man” aspect I try to employ as well. Both of those dudes are dads, which helps. If you really like science, Dr. Anthony Chaffee is a great (but somewhat dry) source. There’s a TON of other dudes out there, but those three are a great, non-confusing, jumping off point.
@T3hPwnisher Dude, this was incredible. Allow me to digest (pun intended, because I’m no coward) and craft a real response. Huge “thank you” in the meantime!
While I’m at it, and I’ll come back with more detail all around, I do want to give a shout-out to @QuadQueen. The first thing she did when she saw this was call me to understand where I was coming from and make sure I was thinking about things in a safe way.
Incredible community here - you are absolutely awesome people!
First, absolute ditto. I really, really appreciate your help. I really enjoy seeing how you go and that we’re alike, but different. Excellent partnership!
Not at all! That got me started, and I needed a jumping off point!
Hugely helpful, too; thank you!
@QuadQueen, who gave me a call to help walk me through - what an incredible person!, said something similar. We kind of aligned that this be a time-bound experiment that coincides with some bloodwork for me. I have some coming up in just about two months, so that should fit well. My lipid panel has never been a problem, so the hope is this doesn’t take it there. I will adjust based on what I see, though.
Great, great, great point! I was definitely conflating the two - my mind said “steak and eggs - it’s a keto diet without avocado,” but I see now that’s not the case.
This also makes a ton of sense. I liked the V-Diet as a reset, vs a lifestyle. I see this run as an experiment as much as anything, so I like the parameters around seeing which variables cause problems.
I didn’t think about oils and the like at all - another great point! I definitely want to be able to practice the spirit, without falling off for something silly, but don’t want to over-justify. One of @QuadQueen’s points, with a diet like this, is you’re either in or you’re out… meaning you can’t eat high-fat all day, and then also have ice cream a couple times a week and think you’re setting yourself up for good cardiovascular health. What’s “out” will come up in a big way in a moment.
I saw this fast after just a day and a half of steak and eggs! I was chugging water! This is definitely one that I’ll have to actually pay attention to.
Whoa… whoa… whoa… now I did not consider this at all. This is actually distressing (which clearly means I have an addiction I should consider). Coffee absolutely has been my go-to to get through diets, travel, and life. How far out of bounds am I on this one? I mean, of course coffee is a plant… I just really didn’t think about it.
@QuadQueen that leads to my question about in or out. Obviously I understand if I’ve been eating fats all day, then drown myself in sugar, I’m looking forward to a stroke later that night. What are your concerns with the “hidden” slips, like cooking with various oils or drinking coffee, etc.? Basically, where am I screwing up the diet, and accepting my results, vs. actually taking an acute health risk?
Again, I love this one. Makes a ton of sense. Hard cheeses seem to hit differently for me vs. just putting cheese on food, so I totally get what you’re saying. I can eat plates of bacon, and I know I feel like a greasy mess, so that’s not a wise addition.
I won’t quote everything below, but I remember you writing this and it was very helpful in its simplification. I can totally get on board with “eat meat” and not get much further stressed. I can certainly see myself getting down crazy rabbit holes and just falling off if I try to be a carnivore monk. I think I just have to be wise about where I’m making excuses to do what I want (your point about seasonings is a great example) vs. this is a way to stay on-plan (accepting restaurant cooking practices in an airport).
By note, I just ate steak and eggs yesterday, mostly because I wanted to, and immediately dropped 2.5 lbs. of water and glycogen. I was also absolutely starving in the evening, but felt fine when I woke up… that leads me to believe it was more habit than hunger.
Anyway, thanks for all that. This will be an interesting experiment over the coming weeks, is far different from how I normally eat, but may be a good jumping off to BBQ season!
Some great points of discussion in there. For the sake of not making this into the 95 Theses, I’ll not do more block quotes, haha.
@QuadQueen is spot on (to the shock of absolutely no one) discussing being “all in” on the diet. It’s similar to my “in context” thing I wrote of. This approach works when followed, but when only “sorta followed”, it’s a recipe for disaster. The standard American diet is high in saturated fats from terrible sources (processed seed oils primarily) AND combined with sugars also from terrible sources (corn syrups and the like), making it a recipe for heart disease. If you can at least remove ONE of those variables, you do yourself a favor. But if you go on a high saturated fat diet like carnivore and then also bring the sugar back in, you put yourself in a bad spot.
Regarding coffee: I bring it up because it CAN cause issues in folks that have otherwise removed all plant material from their life. The gut biome is complex. When you remove ALL plants and eat only animal, it adjusts to that. When you remove ALL plants and then keep giving it a little bit of plant from coffee, it has to adapt to that, and often that adaptation can be rough. We tend to observe that folks that continue drinking coffee on carnivore tend to get some GI upset. That said, there are still MANY carnivores that drink coffee.
However, THAT said, you may not need to give it up: you may simply stop WANTING it. That happened to me. I went from 10 cups of coffee a day and 2 energy drinks to NONE quite literally overnight. I woke up one day, went to make my coffee and pack my energy drinks for work and my body just plain said “no”. Like, my stomach actually hurt THINKING about drinking those things, and it still does if i entertain the notion. And that’s one of the wild things about eating this way: since it heals, you start finding out just how damaged you were BEFORE starting. We apparently forgot what “normal” was supposed to feel like. My guts were on fire for DECADES, and are finally settled.
Seed oils really tend to be pretty bad news. It’s honestly one of those things that, even if I wasn’t on carnivore, I’d avoid them. Going from the paleo sort of perspective: it’s a completely unnatural thing for us to consume. You’d never be able to accumulate THAT many seeds in one sitting to be able to go through the process of extracting THAT much oil out of them to be able to cook/produce the things you make compared to something like butter or animal fat. I’d at least give a nod to avocodo oil and olive oil as “ok”, but you run into the issue that those tend to be corrupted by the companies that produce them. They’ll either cut the oil with something like canola oil to reduce the cost, or the oil will already be rancid on the shelf by the time you get to it.
I REALLY dig this stuff for cooking at home, primarily because it’s a Nebraska product, and it tastes and smells delicious
You can find it on amazon, or check out “duck fat spray” and see if they sell it in your area.
Understanding REAL hunger cues is pretty big here. I like the “egg white test”, ala Mark Bell. If it’s late at night and you’re hungry, eat as many egg whites as you want. For one: pure protein isn’t going to throw you off your plan. And for two: if you don’t WANT egg whites, you’re not really hungry.
There’s a fair chance you WILL be very hungry at the start. I know I was. I just ate and ate and ate, and I kept dropping weight the whole time. All the meat was healing all the damage I had done, and my body was signaling “more nutrients more nutrients” the whole time. I listened to it, and eventually that hunger went away and normalized, and now I can go a LONG time without eating. That’s honestly a great super power when traveling.
Another solid set of points around the oils (and our food quality in general). I have gravitated toward avocado oil, but you do have to be discerning with those. I’ll use coconut oil as well, but it always made my food taste a little different so I didn’t love it as much.
Great call on the duck fat! I’d seen that before and meant to try it and forgot about it; I just added that to my cart.
I’ve always liked the Mark Bell-themed cue (for me it was always a plain chicken breast, but exact same idea).
There’s a lot going on here, but I really like bringing it back to the diagnostic benefit of the diet. What I mean is, I can see it being easy to miss the forest for the trees on exactly what to eat and which things are true carnivore (or paleo or whatever), but eliminating a ton of processed foods and then seeing how I reset feels like the key.
I will say, I’ve been hungry today, but not the same hungry. It’s already settled a little, but I’ve also been on my butt in front of a computer all day so I haven’t built an appetite. We’ll see how that holds up after I’m able to get some activity a little later!
And if I simply stop desiring coffee… well, I don’t even know how to process that one!
As always, sincerely thank you for all the insights.
I wasn’t invited into this conversation, but I enjoy reading your log and obviously saw this and thought I’d just drop my own nugget of experience into it. I was/am not trying to lose weight, nor gain. I don’t call this a diet, I call it a nutritional protocol. I got bored this winter and just wanted to try something different, and somehow landed on meat and eggs. I’m sure @T3hPwnisher has put a lot more thought and experience into his protocol. I literally just started eating meat and eggs throughout the week, then on Saturday I eat whatever I want. I also allowed myself to have protein shakes during the week, mostly because I am just too lazy to prepare more meals.
My meal prep for the week is super easy. I’m rarely hungry. I’m way more regular than usual, even without any fiber. I’m not hardcore and I allow myself dairy, but rarely actually partake (except cooking my eggs with butter). I thought I would be craving cookies, chips, cake and whatnot by Saturday, but I actually have to go find carbs and a reason to eat them; the reset aspect of this “diet” is pretty real. I immediately starting getting leaner (even though I’m pretty lean already) and it didn’t feel like a diet or “cut” at all. (Full disclosure, this also coincided with me cutting back on the whiskey intake pretty significantly…)
Now that I’m preparing for a meet, I still eat the same way, but add in a serving of Surge pre-workout and another during the workout. Strength has continued to go up. For what it’s worth, pretty positive experiences with it all around.
Side benefit: After depleting all week then “carbing up” on Saturday, I really did seem to wake up Sunday morning extra yacked.
“Way of eating” is popular in the social media sphere, and I dig that along with what you put here. I’m also hesitant to call it a diet for that very reason: it’s simply “how I eat”. And for me, much like (it sounds like) for you, it’s also what I WANT to eat. I’ve really weighed it down and realized one day that, if push came to shove, I’d ALWAYS pick beef ribs over anything else. Cheesecake? Nope: I’ll have the ribs, thanks. Ice cream? Nah: ribs please. It’s just that, so often, all those OTHER junk foods are so readily available, and we’ve demonized meat consumption so much that it always seemed so “wrong” to pick the meat. But now, I’m legit just eating what I want all the time. Like you, I have to find a REASON to eat carbs, which is why I include it in my weekly family meal. My wife and kid will make something yummy that feeds the soul. But if left to my own devices, I’m not gonna just eat carbs “because it’s Sunday”.
That Surge around workouts coincides well with Rob Goodwin “The Carnivore Bodybuilder”. He makes some strategic use of carbs. And Jamie Lewis did a similar thing with “Apex Predator Diet for Athletes”. Definitely some room there.
And same observation on the “extra jacked” thing, haha. For me, it’s about 36 hours afterwards the magic really shines through.
So, this is the “small stuff” - since you’re short-terming it, these things aren’t such huge deals. I definitely wouldn’t sweat the coffee - that’s inconsequential in terms of effect on lipid levels as long as you keep it straight-up black and don’t go overboard with it (2 cups per day). And if you find your stomach/GI system doesn’t handle it the same way as it did on your usual diet - then drop it like it’s hot (because coffee usually is - lol).
The oils can have a more profound effect. I’d just say that when you’re eating out and have the power to ask, request that your food be prepped without oil. Don’t say butter, because there’s a very small chance that they’re using real butter - it’s most likely some nasty “liquid butter” which is just a plant-based trans fat-filled nightmare. That shit will do you no favors regardless of what diet you’re following. @T3hPwnisher totally nailed the seed oils and I’d add soybean oil to that list too. These are really not great for anyone. When not doing carnivore, I recommend avocado and olive oils, on carnivore - tallow, duck fat, and real butter are my recs.
@heretolog you’re always invited (I just didn’t realize you were eating this way). I really appreciate your contributions; that was really, really helpful. I like how you worked your way into kind of the old-school “carbs around workout, protein and fat the rest of the time”!
When is your meet?
@QuadQueen thanks, as always! Makes a ton of sense. I’m excited about getting my duck fat; I’ve never tried that.
Day 2 - I was still pretty hungry, but nothing insane. I actually found throwing in some egg whites instead of just eggs made a positive difference; probably just volume in my stomach to make me feel fuller.
You’re exactly right! I’m familiar with the idea, but hadn’t even thought of that. that makes a ton of sense, though. The MD shake before a meal was always a guaranteed fat loser for me, because it would fill me up so much.
Considering the context, I’ll assume this was actually directed at me?
The meet is June 1. I had started eating this way before starting meet prep, but am continuing on with the added Surge. Weight classes don’t really matter for me right now, but I’m fortunate that my normal BW when I’m not trying to do anything is right around 220, so it makes it easy for me to make either the 220 or the 242 class. Since I have plenty of time for this meet, I’m going to continue to use this protocol to lose weight until my strength begins to suffer, then I can reverse course and “grow into the meet,” and still lift as a 220. Weighed in this morning at 211. It’s really crazy how eating this way results in fat loss with very little effort or suffering (for me, at least). I’m sure there are people for whom eating this way is a struggle.
