This is huge man. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your experience on this particular symptom - thank you!
Gents, you’re all studs
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Judge away man. I think we’re from the same era with the same baseline thoughts. I don’t yet know what my opinions are on all this. I’m figuring it out too. I certainly agree with you the US is a big progressive, if not downright aggressive, in this regard.
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Happy to do so dude. It’s been a confusing journey, as I got hit was RSV right after my first injection and have been running Super Squats as well, so I can’t always piece together what is test and what isn’t, but sleep really seems to be moving in a good way.
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Knowing you, that’s almost funny. It’s, at the very least, appropriate
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Mostly just me trying to understand a little more and if I am honest decide whether I should even consider getting some tests done for myself. I am not yet sure though how I would benefit or behave based on the results.
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That’s where I am. I’ve got the results - now what?
If you got any more awesome, though, you’d throw the planet out of orbit (being on the bottom and all). We can’t risk it.
For me, I’ve known this was low for awhile. There was no reason to think about it until the sleep got to a point I had to address it. So I guess let symptoms drive the thinking? Even with that, who knows
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Jokes aside but this is partly my reasoning to not getting tested. I feel like I do a lot more than most people my age (pretty low bar i guess). So do I really need to know. Hmmm I need to ponder this more.
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My doc put it pretty well. “You came here because of symptoms: not because of labs”. If you’re not suffering, no reason to get tested. But if things AREN’T going right, it’s worth looking in to.
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This is hard to define when you spend your whole time beat up and tired. … LOL
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I wish I could speak on it more intelligently for you. It’s not an area I know anything about. I do really like the symptoms vs labs quote - excellent level setting.
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With a hefty grain of salt? Yes.
My dad is of the generation who does not go to the doctor unless death is upon them. He’s 63 (i think) and frequently talks about having no drive and virtually every other low T symptom.
I told him he should get his hormones checked, and though he’s sure he’s in full andropause - he’s still hesitant just to get a fucking blood test. Let’s say he gets tested and his results come back “fine”. Should he still take TRT even though it isn’t medically necessary? Uhmm YEAH. It’s just a quality of life thing.
Who cares what the blood test says? You’ve made all the right lifestyle adjustments and still feel ‘meh’… so you should just keep at this ever-declining state for the rest of your life? That is outright stupid when there’s safe, tested methods to make the quality of your life better. As an added bonus: you’ll get more gains too. It isn’t risk-free, but neither is driving or having a beer after work.
Anyways, that’s my thinking.
*steps down from podium*
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It may be different in other countries but pretty sure you wont get treated down here if the test does not show a low result. I guess there are other avenues that through your doctor though.
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Correct you won’t be given anything in Australia without more than a few consistently low results.
And what you perceive as low, may not actually be low. Without a history of baseline testing for you, how can you know?
No symptoms? Then you’re MOST likely fine in truth.
But if one had many symptoms (one symptom doesn’t mean shit), you’d be silly not to check it.
Often though the root cause isn’t just age or whatever either. Stress, anxiety, self beat downs too often, lack of sleep, lack of sunlight, lack of vitamin D, shit diet all individually contribute to a shitty test level result.
If all of these things are not in order…I wouldn’t seeking a prescription for anything until they were.
My test numbers were not Great only a few months. Had bad anxiety, high stress, wasn’t sleeping great as a result, still trying to push training…it was adding up.
I set about fixing these issues second half of this year and my latest test results are right where they should be in truth. Jumping on some test would have been a silly move.
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Based on this would you suggest baseline testing
State run health care?
If yes, then you’re probably right. If there are non-government run doctors though, that’s your best bet. To be fair, OUR govt run healthcare is very much like that.
I basically interrogated @TrainForPain before suggesting anything hormone related and he’s got his ducks in a row. Still, I didn’t recommend going for TRT unless that was a route he wanted to go. What i did recommend was getting that baseline you’re talking about, and possibly seeking peptides to help with sleep.
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I just want the ones that make your guns bigger and your gut smaller 
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Aus is in its infancy as far as doctors willing to prescribe TRT, but they do exist. I know a couple guys on prescriptions at the moment in SA but the doctors are all interstate, Perth I think? Considering hitting it up, seems to be working really well for them
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All truth. Your approach has been much more mature than what I sometimes accidentally stumble into in the TRT sub. I will say there, though, I’ve noticed a couple of you have really set a more even tone in there lately; that is outstanding.
Ok, to sum up everyone’s thoughts, it sounds like we think I should drink beer and party, doctor shop until I get one blood test at low normal, double whatever dose I can get them to prescribe, and take some instagram pics?
In all seriousness, I genuinely appreciate everyone’s thoughts, advice, opinions on this and any subject I drop in here. I know you all know this, so I’m only saying the below to clarify for anyone reading: any decisions I actually make will be between me and a doctor, and completely based on what we think will keep me around and happily engaged with my children and (hopefully one day) their children for longer. All of your experience and expertise is extraordinarily enlightening (like the alliteration?), so please keep it coming, but any actual forward path (or lack thereof) would be a patient-doctor shared decision… rather than a patient finding a doctor to agree with an Internet diagnosis (or shying away from a doctor because of the Internet).
Phew. I feel even grosser after typing that. Anyway, @simo74, to come back to last night’s notes: I also grew up in the “spit on it and rub dirt on it” era. I still think most of us should probably try to lean a little more that way, and maybe we’d actually land in middle ground. I have been fortunate enough to work with healthcare for the last ~12 years, so I think that has given me a little perspective on what I’m willing to hand off and who is hand it off to. If nothing else, I at least know it’s my responsibility to do research and be part of the process. I think we both went through this internal struggle with our own sons, so it’s not surprising we’d be a little curious about our own motivations. I know, for me, my knee jerk in this case when I hear someone jumped to TRT after not hitting a bench press goal is they’re a puss… even though it’s just none of my business and is likely a legit therapy in most cases. This became a ramble, but that’s how my old brain works.
So, super long story short:
Thanks for all the thoughts
I’ll keep making decisions with the doctor
I don’t know that I’m going to do anything
My primary goal is to live forever
My secondary goal is to not be exhausted
When I come back and impress your panties off with this afternoon’s workout, I’ll probably also wax more about my son’s theater: the dude loved it.
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I had a whole response typed up and then read you last post, so I deleted it lol.
FWIW, I do agree with this as the best approach to meet your goals. I believe the term you would be looking for to ‘medically’ describe this is “anti-aging”, which includes the realm of longevity and quality of life… effectively what I am in for as well, though I may be willing to shorten lifespan a few months for a few lbs LBM. In reality, none of us will be jacked in our 70’s - but we do all want to be healthy. Low T carries it’s own long-term risks, but you and your doc will decide when that applies to you (as it should be).
Glad to have been part of this conversation with @simo74 @kleinhound @wiseman83 and @T3hPwnisher. For a bunch of meatheads, it’s apparent there’s more than ‘meat’ between our ears.
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I really didn’t intend to kill conversation! That’s the whole value of this forum. I just didn’t want to leave anyone watching the impression that we should be actually making our decisions outside the clinic and then bringing those to the doctor. We absolutely should be doing some homework outside the clinic, though, and I’ve felt that’s what this is.
I really appreciate your thoughts in this subject matter.
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