Silver and Steel

Training Training Logs
2486

For the big lifts (squat and deadlift), I usually grind through workouts and occasionally have a day where I feel strong and things move fast. I haven’t felt like that since switching to this style of training. I’m doing less volume than I typically do, but I’m trying to trust the program (I always end up doing more volume than necessary out of paranoia).

I actually feel pretty good every day in the gym. Pressing feels strong. Squat feels strong. Deads definitely feel strong. The verdict is still out on cleans. I’m doing less weight and focusing on speed and catch technique and speed seems good.

The way a session goes from a lower body lift to upper body to total body keeps me from destroying any one muscle group each day. For example, I did heavy deads yesterday, but since it wasn’t a traditional pull or leg day, I didn’t have to keep wrecking my back or legs. No bent over rows or RDLs with a fatigued lower back. I moved to jumps (DE lower choice), incline, and then my hypertrophy work of OHP, pull-ups, and a single leg movement. I skipped the single leg movement to save some juice for basketball today.

I think the decreased volume and new way of spreading the work through the week is helping me stay fresh. It’s a nice change.

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2487

Sounds not too far off what I’m doing.

OHP after Bench Press? Nah.

RDLs after Squats? Nah.

OHP after Deadlifts? Bench after Squat? Lets be 'avin you!

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2488

I saw some similarities in the Modified Hatfield Splits you described. I acknowledged that I had a problem with volume about six years ago, but I still fight my demons. I’ve always done gym bro amounts of volume even if I was training for strength. I’d do the strength work and then pile on volume in other ways. It’s like I’m afraid of doing too little and not getting any results, so I air on the side of caution and do a lot.

Besides being a possible waste of time, it’s become too much for me to do mentally. I just don’t want to train that long anymore. I used to go to a commercial gym when I had Mon, Tues, and Wed off from work and train for two hours. My family was all out of the house so I didn’t have anything better to do. That’s not the case anymore. Even if I have time to train longer than 45 minutes, I just don’t want to.

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2489

Yeah I’m not a volume guy either. I feel that whenever people start playing around with volume is when problems are more likely to arise (unless you know what you’re doing/following a prewritten program). I figure that I should do the absolute minimum whilst still moving forward. I heard a great analogy not long ago, can’t remember where, comparing it to getting a sun tan. Stimulate the adaption then stop, the more you do it the better results you’ll get? Not always. You’ll just end up getting burnt.

Now and then I’ll feel like adding another set, but if I did more than I did last week, do I really need to? Probably not.

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2490

The conversation in here is amazing! I do find it funny we’re talking “volume is the enemy” in my log of all places, because I’m an absolute volume queen. I think I’m ready to be reformed, though; it’s getting less fun than it was.

This is me. It makes sense everywhere else - if you work more, you’re more successful (well, prior to 2019); why wouldn’t we apply that to the gym? It creeps up for sure.

I definitely see how your sessions could keep you fresh. Are they fun at all? I do like getting to the end of a body part day, being smoked, and having to grind to get some pushups or something done. I don’t know why, but that’s “enjoyable” to me. I’d enjoy more being able to jump high or bench big, though, so I guess I’ve got to pick.

Here’s where we’re at in life…

  1. Fun projects that I’ve been asking for are kicking off at work - it’s keeping me a little busy, though.
  2. Kids are going back to school this week (hallelujah).
  3. Neighbors here are great - we had a big weekend meeting everyone and playing with their kids; very pleased.
  4. GA house closed today - we’re all done!
  5. Literally hours later, @Jared_Maggard called and told me I get to go see @Christian_Thibaudeau in Atlanta this week (maybe 20 minutes away from the house I just closed hours before, weird timing) because Biotest is amazing to us. I’m incredibly stoked. I’ve always been a fan and I’ve found the neurotype conversations have helped me with work and my family.
  6. Today has been cardio and cutting a dog door, so far. I promised my son I’d take him fishing, so we’re about to head out the door and see if we can catch anything (we didn’t yesterday). I’m in the last week of the program I was doing, but it’s 4 days this week of 95+% lifts. I want to get everything I can out of the CT seminar this weekend and don’t want to feel like a pile of donkey poo that can’t move; I’m thinking I will take this week a bit lighter so the weekend is awesome.
  7. I am on the road all of September. I’ve got to figure out more clever ways to deal with that and still move forward with my fitness goals. Perhaps I’ll have a chance to talk to one of the world’s leading experts about just such a challenge this weekend… Hmmm…
  8. I’m fatter than I’m comfortable being. Eating whatever I want has been super fun, and easily justifiable when I’m “power building, bro!”, but that’s about it. It’s time to get my life back under control and reintroduce myself to my toes.
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2491

It’s not that I overly think that way, I just think it is for a lot of people that try to do things their own way (albeit some get burnt even on well structured programs if it’s so far away from your training history). Of course differing goals will matter substantially. I work out in a leisure center attached to a school so it’s full of people running 5-6 day splits as beginners/early-intermediates - I see them grinding so much for little results and just know a full body 3x a week would explode their progress. What you say about “more is better” is often spot on in other areas of life so it’s completely understandable. I can’t tell you how many times I plateaued on bench early on and just kept adding more sets, more reps, more accessories to get nowhere though. I believe high volume can work fantastically, you just really need to know what you’re doing and the majority of people aren’t going to be adept enough with knowledge of their own bodies to be able to get the most from it. As I say though, i’m talking about people in their first few years of training.

What kind of fishing are you doing?

2492

Let’s not forgot that the definition of volume is sets, reps, effort all as one.

Volume is the main driver of muscle growth, too much or too little will not cause hypertrophy. So there is many ways to get to the correct volume as long as the variables are all correct which is why it’s best for people to follow programmes which have done the maths for us.

I’ll be back later to discuss more (because this is going to be a awesome discussion) but I’m off to eat my body weight in pancakes, cream and maple syrup!

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2493

That depends on what you consider fun. I enjoy only having to survive only one exercise of ME and then it’s off to another body part.

Well, ME bench day is kind of fun. Speed bench, jump squats, clean pulls, and power cleans are fun. I’d say the ME lift is the main focus mentally. They dynamic effort work along with the strength work that follows is the fun work. The final exercises are a necessary evil for balance and overall joint health.

That’s pretty awesome! Enjoy!

I’m getting close to that point, too. The problem is that I’m not quite there so my motivation to fix it has been nonexistent.

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2494

Come back and kick this one off, man!

I totally understand this. The problem is I let that turn into some OCD.

There’s definitely a cliff to this. Before I reach it, I don’t care at all. Once I go over, I’m beyond disgusted and very far from where I want to be.

Ok, warrior gods and goddesses, I haven’t been logging this week. It wasn’t on purpose (at first): I just got busy.

My wife is working, which is great for her, but it just means I actually have to help around the house… a legitimate tragedy.

My son tried out a scout troop again… and I can’t describe how badly I don’t want to do it. Not for any reason other than I think I’m cool and don’t want to sit around with all the parents waiting for his meetings to end. He seemed happy about it, though, and I think the way they seem to do things will be good for him; so I need to suck it up and do it and smile while we’re at it.

They started school today. We’re close enough they can bike (until he changes schools next year) and they were both really excited about the independence. This made me pretty happy, so all is well.

Back to the “at first on-purpose) lack of logging: I’m now in the final week of this program. It has you working up to heavyish stuff. Rather than write it down and try to assess my results every day, I’ll just wait until Friday and log the highlights. I’ll also ramble out a review that day that gives my thoughts on the program as a whole as well as the Biotest supplements I’ve been taking. I won’t whine there, so I’ll say it here: @T3hPwnisher knocking out his program review which culminated in 50 reps of a 405 squat a week before I’m about to share mine was about as poor timing as me and the housing market.

Saturday and Sunday I get to see Coach CT in Hotlanta (actually in the suburbs an hour northeast, but I say I live in Cincinnati and it’s the same deal so it’s ok). I’m certainly not going to monopolize his time nor will I copy and share his work, but are there any questions you’d be interested in me asking? I generally mean this in the context of me, since he’s super responsive in his forum and we can all ask him whatever. Everyone knows how I train and how I’m built and all that, though, so if questions like “am I too high volume?” Or “do I do too little on the compounds” would help anyone in that regard, I’m happy to try that route. Basically, what would be helpful?

I intend to try to learn:

  • How to minimize my tendencies toward self-destruction? He mentions 1A folks either being CEOs or violent murderers, and I kind of see his point here.
  • Similar to the above: how to “recover” for stimulus addicts?
  • What to do with programming when life gets in the way (travel, etc.)?
  • Managing program-hopping because you feel like it vs it’s time.
  • How “hard” to train, by which I mean intensity va intensiveness - I can push a set to puking, but I lift very sub-max weights as an example.

Anyway, I’m probably over-talking about this because I’m so excited. I’ll definitely leave a gushing review in the main forum after, but it won’t be a line-by-line of what he said - that’s his work.

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2495

I absolutely understand and appreciate the sentiment behind what you wrote there my dude, but you’re absolutely killing it on your end in your way, and what you have to share will be incredibly valuable.

We’re normalizing excellence. That’s outstanding. We can eventually get things to the point where these accomplishments are EXPECTED, rather than celebrated.

Excited for you to hit up that seminar! I did a Kaz one a few years back and it was outstanding. TAKE NOTES! I was legit the ONLY dude there taking notes, and people looked at me like an alien. No way I was wasting the opportunity.

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2496

I genuinely appreciate that, man; I know the standard to which you hold yourself, so I don’t take this lightly.
I’m somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because I’m no longer comparing abilities - to you or to prior versions of myself. I think I’m finally old/ nostalgic enough to realize there’s a season and my results will match what I’m willing to give.
What I’m so impressed with in you is twofold:

  1. The consistent effort. I’ve always felt that’s the only thing we can control, and I admire and appreciate your daily output. It’s one thing to go puke today, it’s something else to do the requisite work every day. Everyone wanted to be Delta until the 4000th time they’re lining up their big toe on the door jamb to get it perfect.
  2. Your writing. I’m sincere when I say this: you get your point across in a way that is both inspiring and thought-provoking for folks across the spectrum of goals and achievements. That’s a rare skill, but it’s important or no-one will ever take steps to change.

That’s the end of my love fest; I’m back to being disgusted by the squat.

That’s insane! I’m 100% with you. Why would you go and miss anything?? I actually packed two notebooks and a tablet with pen - we’ve got backups on backups.

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2497

Crap, I wrote up my whole diatribe and missed the most important point. Well said. I actually used to get other dudes to help me ID when to give guys’ awards, because my expectations would have put their careers behind their peers with softer leaders.
I don’t know if you’ve ever read Everything I need to know, I learned in kindergarten, but the juvenile wisdom of “whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right” holds true.

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2498

Appreciate the love-fest my dude! The admiration goes both ways. I’m a big fan of that quote and use it frequently myself. I’d rather think I’m amazing and find out I’m wrong than think I’m a loser and find out I’m right, haha.

Very much appreciate the kudos toward the writing. My blog approaches a decade of existence soon, and I think starting it was one of the best things I ever did for improving my ability to communiate.

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2499

So what is the best training volume then.

Firstly I’d like to add that these are my ramblings and there are many people here who look way better than I do BUT there are things that have made a noticeable difference to my physique.

So I’d like to start by saying volume is a mix of reps, sets, intensity of the set all combined.

With my experience, you can gain strength on less volume than hypertrophy, no evidence other then my experience with 531 where just doing the main lifts seems to increase my strength but adding in some assistance (some real meaty assistance) seems to add the size.

But I’m also quite weak compared to my size, I’ve progressive overloaded on certain exercises but never really stuck to one since I started training for size (changing every 4 weeks or so). So gaining strength on an exercise alone doesn’t seem to be the only way to add size. Maybe this is becuase most of the increase is in my body’s adaption to being proficient at the exercise so people get focussed at adding weight rather than adding ‘volume’.

This leads my thoughts on to ‘easy volume’ or assistance. Anything trained after the initial heavy compound movement when you are fatigued doesn’t need to be as heavy or as intense to get to that ‘failure’ or growth point because you are already fatigued.

To compare this in simple terms, if you bench then do db bench, your db bench won’t need to be as intense to get to failure as if you did
Monday bench Wednesday db bench. Compare this over all exercises and over a whole week and there is an argument to say you do less work to achieve the same results by hammering a body part of a split basis rather than hitting it multiple times a week.

I’d like to add maybe there is some bias in the above but to me that’s how I see things.

But…:on to second post

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2500

But I also believe there are people how get more out of compound movements than others. Depending on your leverages etc some people will work more of the body with an exercise than others, so maybe they need less overall volume in plain terms because their compound hits things more equally than people with long arms for example.

So lifter A who has long arms needs to hit chest isolation more after bench (being tricep dominant) compared to lifter B who doesn’t.

I also believe every person has a range of volume, but the upper end cannot be achieved week in week out. This might be the whole mesocyle thing. Getting the correct volume to grow but not burn out is best left to people who are well versed which is why people do well on proper programmes compared to a split listed on a website (for example). If people have rep ranges and sets but not how to progress from week 1 to week 5 then they will probably cock it up unless they are experienced.

Part 3 of my random thoughts

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2501

So overall what do we need?

In simple terms hypertrophy needs progressive overload. But if you focus on 1 exercise to increase weight or reps are you really overloading the muscle?

Progress must be made on a body part on a programme, it must be made not only on the first exercise in any programme but across the board on a body part/ exercises.

I need to focus my thoughts to type more and third bottle of wine left me unable to concentrate!

Maybe I need to start over when completely sober next week as I’ve rambled a little.

I think my point is volume to overall stuff not just one thing, and it is hard to correctly manipulate. Also you can gain strength without really gaining volume(which is mass).

I also think that it’s hard to progressively overload a muscle if you don’t have a record or track what you did previously. Due to day to day different feelings in the gym about what is hard one day compared to another than volume needs to be tracked to really understand what is increasing and what is not overall.

Anyhow discussion started, I’ll add more next week probably! I’ll let the buffer people talk now.

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2502

Just want to add to the bit about the novelty factor too - the body has a certain adaption period to the point it gets very efficient at the movement, leaving that specific movement as a stimulus for muscle growth or progress to get slower. Whilst with specificity you’ll get stronger at that movement, sometimes if you hammer a certain exercise for months on end you might actually end up noticing more muscle growth with less volume of a similar movement pattern.

It gets more complicated than that though, sometimes moving out of specificity can help you to smash through previous plateaus when you go back to the main movement. This is why it’s such common ground for programs to have the main movement constant and then rotate the secondary movement pattern - consistently allowing novelty to provide muscle and strength gains. This works very much in the same way as rotating rep ranges. For someone who has always trained in the 8-12 rep range, a short stint in the 3-5 range will actually yield better results for a short period.

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2503

Thanks for the thoughts, gents!
I’ll chime in more later, but I think a lot of the “strength without hypertrophy” comes from getting better at the movement. You can practice the skill, in which case high volume is actually the enemy because fatigue will hurt your practice.

I think there is a sweet spot for volume: too little and you’re not getting enough stimulating reps, obviously. On the other end of the spectrum, I think you also don’t get stimulating reps on the higher end either because you’re subconsciously sandbagging so you can finish the session and not coming close enough to failure OR because you’re so under-recovered from session to session you’re never progressing.

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2504

Day 1 of the CT seminar:

  • I came in early to train, and freaking crushed it even though I was just trying to screw around. Competition is apparently the only thing that matters to me, so being around other folk helped.
  • CT has convinced me I overdo the bodybuilding stuff, at least without different stimulus throughout the year, and underutilize progression models. I’m really looking forward to tomorrow’s programming deep dive.
  • The lecture on cortisol and it’s implication was one of the best presentations I’ve ever heard across all disciplines: worth the trip itself.
  • His ability to pull conclusions from a combination of multiple reference points is impressive and makes the topics practical.
  • I want CT to be my BFF, but there’s a long line for that and he’s not kidding when he says we make him uncomfortable when we corner him one-on-one!
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2505

I’m interested to hear more on all those subjects. Although on the above, I do think all Bb assistance work needs some kind of progress model over time which why I love what meadows does with his programmes.

On cortisol I remember Layne Norton citing a few notes about how volume didn’t raise it to a point where it could cause an issue but stress did.

I very much think stress has affected me negatively the last year.

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