I have been going to an ART doctor for the last year and have at least 20 treatments for an impingement in my right shoulder. The MRI I had done showed a small tear in the bursa(sp?). I have done countless exercises for rehab, i.e. external rotators, field goals, modified empty can, Buchberger. I have drastically improved my posture and for a year I did no exercises that caused pain- flat bench, militaries, etc and well 2 weeks ago I helped my father move some heavy, 70 year old gas pumps and had to press and carry them overhead. The next day my shoulder hurt like hell so I went and had ART done twice that week and it is still no better.
Had the surgery yesterday. In and out in 2.5 hours. Very little pain so far, I have only taken ibuprofen so far. Went to physical therapy today and have done the exercises with no problems and have nearly full range of motion. Strength is good on internal/external rotation but very weak on raising the arm up and down.
The doctor did an acromioplasty where the ac joint is shaved to make more room for movement, smoothed off bone spurs for the underside of the ac joint and cleaned up the damage to my labrum.
If I can get a good scanned images of the arthroscopic images I will post them.
My pt said I should never again do any overhead work and that includes chin ups. I think I will want a second opinion on that.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
No Chin-ups? Get a second opinion on that one…
[/quote]
I’m in a similar situation. I have a labral tear upon further review of my MRI. However, it’s not enough to make me want to have surgery.
I’ve had to avoid all overhead lifts and make modifications to my training, but I have been without pain for several weeks now (first time in a very long time).
Unfortunately, now my “good” shoulder is beginning to have similar pain. Although I am not doing any overhead work, I’ve noticed that chins do aggravate my shoulder.
I don’t plan on eliminating them from my workout, as chins are such an incredible exercise, but I have become more cautious and don’t do them as often as I used to.
I think if enough horizontal pulling and rotator cuff exercises are done, you should still be able to continue using chins.
What I mean by “vertical chins” is grabbing two separate bars afixed to the ceiling (palms facing) and Chinning yourself. The natural position of the hands will place less stress on your shoulder joints.
The single worst position is Pull-up (palms away) and a wide grip. This puts the most stress on your shoulder joints.
In March of this year I injured my shoulder, had an MRI done and was told that the deltoid had tears from the 11 o’clock position to the 5 o’clock position. After a month the pain went away and I opted not to have surgery.
I had considerable difficulty in raising my arm. I decided to rehab it myself, and began testing the strength level of the supraspinatus, and strength of the infraspinatus relative to the subscapularis. The supraspinatus had weakened, and sure enough, the subscapularis was much stronger than the infraspinatus. (as tested by side-lying external and internal dumbbell raises) This I attributed to a marked dominance of pressing over rowing movements, and to possible damage to the infraspinatus.
The only pressing movement I do now is behind-neck presses as this movement involves the supraspinatus, infraspinatus and teres minor (all 3 external rotator muscles), 8-12 reps, definitely avoiding failure. I also do gymnastics rings pushups, a bodyweight exercise. I’ll also note that regular pushups on the floor make the shoulder feel good. I refuse the bench like a curse – it still does not feel right 8 months later. I also use a shoulder harness for external rotation. Chin-ups do not bother the shoulder now. Pull-ups on the rings with the hands in the neutral position are good.
The lesson I have learned is an over-emphasis on pressing will have its price.
Perhaps to not bench more than you can row.
It was a relative assigning of value of pressing over rowing, consistently applied, that led to the injury after all. See?
What I mean by “vertical chins” is grabbing two separate bars afixed to the ceiling (palms facing) and Chinning yourself. The natural position of the hands will place less stress on your shoulder joints.
The single worst position is Pull-up (palms away) and a wide grip. This puts the most stress on your shoulder joints.
[/quote]
Yeah, I can do parallel chins on one of my bars. I don’t do wide-grip chins/pull-ups, and I rarely do pronated pull-ups. I usually stick with supinated chins so I can get some biceps work.
[quote]Limbic wrote:
In March of this year I injured my shoulder, had an MRI done and was told that the deltoid had tears from the 11 o’clock position to the 5 o’clock position. After a month the pain went away and I opted not to have surgery.
I had considerable difficulty in raising my arm. I decided to rehab it myself, and began testing the strength level of the supraspinatus, and strength of the infraspinatus relative to the subscapularis. The supraspinatus had weakened, and sure enough, the subscapularis was much stronger than the infraspinatus. (as tested by side-lying external and internal dumbbell raises) This I attributed to a marked dominance of pressing over rowing movements, and to possible damage to the infraspinatus.
The only pressing movement I do now is behind-neck presses as this movement involves the supraspinatus, infraspinatus and teres minor (all 3 external rotator muscles), 8-12 reps, definitely avoiding failure. I also do gymnastics rings pushups, a bodyweight exercise. I’ll also note that regular pushups on the floor make the shoulder feel good. I refuse the bench like a curse – it still does not feel right 8 months later. I also use a shoulder harness for external rotation. Chin-ups do not bother the shoulder now. Pull-ups on the rings with the hands in the neutral position are good.
The lesson I have learned is an over-emphasis on pressing will have its price.
Perhaps to not bench more than you can row.
It was a relative assigning of value of pressing over rowing, consistently applied, that led to the injury after all. See? [/quote]
All excellent points!
I always make sure I balance all of my Chinning movements with pressing movements. And naturally I never Barbell Bench Press!
Dave Tate in 7 More Movements for Rapid Strength Development explains what they mean at Westside by “pull the bar apart”. The effort has the effect of activating the rear deltoid and external rotators in the bench press. This is the way to avoid the injuries we’re discussing. The use of mini-bands has got to be an excellent teaching tool. “Pulling the bar apart” stabilizes the shoulder and scapula. (I thought I knew how to bench before my injury, too.) I saw the significance of activating the rear deltoid while doing ring push-ups. All part of keeping the body tight.
Chin-ups could aggravate the shoulder due to gripping a stationary object while applying torque, and chins do call on the rear deltoid pretty strongly.
I also would like to bench press again some day in the future. It is possible, but only after I learn the above.
