Shoulder Pain - NOT Rotator Cuff

Training Injuries
1

Wanted to post here to see if I could get a better response than at BBF. From lurking around here, seems like the intelligence and maturity level here is way higher…

Anyway, I’ve had shoulder pain for about a year, occurring while doing certain exercises or stretches. For the same time, I’ve had soreness of muscles in the upper back, around the shoulder blade region.

Injured shoulder while doing incline bench press and the pain hasn’t gone away ever since. I can bench press and do most everything, except direct shoulder exercises hurt, so I can’t do too much weight on those.

Went to a shoulder specialist today and he performed some tests on me and took an x-ray and said it’s definitely not a rotator cuff problem. He referred me to a spine specialist.

I’ve had this for about a year now, and the upper back muscle soreness is debilitating. I get it massaged frequently but that only relieves the pain temporarily.

This forum is the only one that comes up with interesting results when I google my problems, so I’m hoping some of the educated and experienced people here can chime in on my problem.

Thanks in advance.

2

I had a shoulder problem 17 months ago and it is fine the last 15 months.
For self massage i use a " thestick ". If we select a model long enough it can be used on any body part.
After 5 weeks of complete rest i did a few weeks of rehab.
Probably like i did you keep on doing mouvements/exercises that are improper for your shoulder structure.
STOP.
Recently i think CT wrote an article about how bench pressing can be irritating for shoulders and or elbows. He suggested the suicide grip to avoid that. Personally i use a neutral grip or and mostly dumbbells.
In martial arts each time we throw a fist it rotates because it is a natural mouvement.
Many coaches suggest using rings for pullups/chinups for joints safety.
Your shoulder structure (like mine) may like you a lot more if you do not impose any fix path.
All the best.

3

I actually noticed that in another thread that people seem to recommend more dumbbells because they let your shoulders take the natural range of motion. Now that you mention it, I can kind of see how every time I bench, it hurts for the first set and then gets better, but the pain doesn’t really go away after at all…

Still it’s something in my upper back that is causing it I think. It just radiates into the shoulder and makes it tight or something. The shoulder specialist said my rotator cuff is fine by doing all of those tests, and couldn’t diagnose anything with it…

The recommendation I got from him and my physician is the same - taking anti-inflammatories for 2 weeks. I don’t get how that’s supposed to fix my problem though… I thought NSAID’s are just for pain relief. Is inflammation my only problem? Would ibuprofen just knock it out and make it better?

4

Definitely see the back specialist. In the meantime, I would suggest searching Kelly Starrett’s Mobility Wod stuff (even better - can you get his book - Supple Leopard?). Eric Cressey’s and Mike Robertson’s stuff are other good resources. Have you addressed any T-spine mobility issues? I believe T-spine issues can cause shoulder pain. If you haven’t, maybe some Thoracic Bridges (search T-Nation) or other t-spine soft tissue work will help.

If you live in the Bay Area or near Boston or Indianapolis, maybe you could see Starrett, Cressey or Mike Robertson?

BTW: NSAID - non-steroidal anti-INFLAMMATORY drug.

5

Some people who suggest drugs go in jail, some other get rich.
I choose to avoid the 2.
youngoldguy has something. His exercises suggestion might help, many like pullaparts(affordable therabands) broomstick stretches (wich i did with a scarf). Search here and on utube.
All the best!

6

Really appreciate the advice guys. I’m still astounded by how much more knowledgeable and understanding people are here compared to even professionals who sell their advice.

youngoldguy, I’m not from that area at all, so I wouldn’t be able to see those people, but I will follow your advice with all the other exercises. Looking over at the T-spine situation, it sounds very plausible that that’s where my problem originates. What was your comment about the NSAID? I know what it stands for, but I just wasn’t sure how it works. I guess I don’t understand what inflammation truly is and where it originates, and how the hell to get rid of it.

BHappy, I’ve tried the broomstick stuff a bit. Haven’t started buying into all the accessories yet. What was that comment about drugs and rich? I don’t get the reference…

7

Well they play with labels.
Do the right thing … buy drugs that get me rich.
Buy the ones that do not get me rich ,and go to jail.

8

[quote]CottonShoulder wrote:
Wanted to post here to see if I could get a better response than at BBF. From lurking around here, seems like the intelligence and maturity level here is way higher…

Anyway, I’ve had shoulder pain for about a year, occurring while doing certain exercises or stretches. For the same time, I’ve had soreness of muscles in the upper back, around the shoulder blade region.

Injured shoulder while doing incline bench press and the pain hasn’t gone away ever since. I can bench press and do most everything, except direct shoulder exercises hurt, so I can’t do too much weight on those.

Went to a shoulder specialist today and he performed some tests on me and took an x-ray and said it’s definitely not a rotator cuff problem. He referred me to a spine specialist.

I’ve had this for about a year now, and the upper back muscle soreness is debilitating. I get it massaged frequently but that only relieves the pain temporarily.

This forum is the only one that comes up with interesting results when I google my problems, so I’m hoping some of the educated and experienced people here can chime in on my problem.

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

First, what are you considering a shoulder “specialist”

Two, describe the symptoms are you c/o shoulder or upper t-spine pain

9

[quote]CottonShoulder wrote:
Wanted to post here to see if I could get a better response than at BBF. From lurking around here, seems like the intelligence and maturity level here is way higher…

Anyway, I’ve had shoulder pain for about a year, occurring while doing certain exercises or stretches. For the same time, I’ve had soreness of muscles in the upper back, around the shoulder blade region.

Injured shoulder while doing incline bench press and the pain hasn’t gone away ever since. I can bench press and do most everything, except direct shoulder exercises hurt, so I can’t do too much weight on those.

Went to a shoulder specialist today and he performed some tests on me and took an x-ray and said it’s definitely not a rotator cuff problem. He referred me to a spine specialist.

I’ve had this for about a year now, and the upper back muscle soreness is debilitating. I get it massaged frequently but that only relieves the pain temporarily.

This forum is the only one that comes up with interesting results when I google my problems, so I’m hoping some of the educated and experienced people here can chime in on my problem.

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Hey, I’ve actually been having this for quite a while now. I can feel the pain in the midback/scapula area especially when I pack my shoulder back or tilt my head side to side to stretch my neck. I also experience clicking and pain in my shoulder/collarbone region when I raise my hands overhead and pack my shoulders. Do you experience this?

It’s really frustrating as it disables me from performing certain exercises such as bench press and dips.

I’d hope the expert would chime in on this and help us out.

10

[quote]BHOLL wrote:

[quote]CottonShoulder wrote:
Wanted to post here to see if I could get a better response than at BBF. From lurking around here, seems like the intelligence and maturity level here is way higher…

Anyway, I’ve had shoulder pain for about a year, occurring while doing certain exercises or stretches. For the same time, I’ve had soreness of muscles in the upper back, around the shoulder blade region.

Injured shoulder while doing incline bench press and the pain hasn’t gone away ever since. I can bench press and do most everything, except direct shoulder exercises hurt, so I can’t do too much weight on those.

Went to a shoulder specialist today and he performed some tests on me and took an x-ray and said it’s definitely not a rotator cuff problem. He referred me to a spine specialist.

I’ve had this for about a year now, and the upper back muscle soreness is debilitating. I get it massaged frequently but that only relieves the pain temporarily.

This forum is the only one that comes up with interesting results when I google my problems, so I’m hoping some of the educated and experienced people here can chime in on my problem.

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

First, what are you considering a shoulder “specialist”

Two, describe the symptoms are you c/o shoulder or upper t-spine pain[/quote]

The doctor I went to is listed as chief of orthopaedics at a surgery center and specializes in shoulder and knee sports medicine. Listed as specializing in
-Arthroscopic rotator cuff repairs
-Arthroscopic or complex open shoulder stabilizations
-Total or reverse shoulder replacements
-Knee arthroscopy and ligament reconstructions
-Cartilage and meniscus repairs

Basically the guy seemed legit so I went to him. Shame I only had like 10 minutes with him. He looked at my x-rays and said nothing looks off there. Touched the shoulder a bit, pressed down on it while I held my arm out in various ways and concluded it cannot be a rotator cuff problem.

I’m not sure what c/o shoulder is but the pain alternates from being on the right or on the left side of the spine. It’s usually along side the shoulder blades, between the shoulder blade and spine. Massaging it feels great and provides some temporary relief.

Sitting without moving such as while driving seems to make it hurt more/become more sore. When it gets really sore, you can almost see/feel how the muscle sticks out more than the one on the other side. I’ve been taking fish oil pills for the anti-inflammatory effect, but that hasn’t helped.

11

[quote]Fotress wrote:

[quote]CottonShoulder wrote:
Wanted to post here to see if I could get a better response than at BBF. From lurking around here, seems like the intelligence and maturity level here is way higher…

Anyway, I’ve had shoulder pain for about a year, occurring while doing certain exercises or stretches. For the same time, I’ve had soreness of muscles in the upper back, around the shoulder blade region.

Injured shoulder while doing incline bench press and the pain hasn’t gone away ever since. I can bench press and do most everything, except direct shoulder exercises hurt, so I can’t do too much weight on those.

Went to a shoulder specialist today and he performed some tests on me and took an x-ray and said it’s definitely not a rotator cuff problem. He referred me to a spine specialist.

I’ve had this for about a year now, and the upper back muscle soreness is debilitating. I get it massaged frequently but that only relieves the pain temporarily.

This forum is the only one that comes up with interesting results when I google my problems, so I’m hoping some of the educated and experienced people here can chime in on my problem.

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Hey, I’ve actually been having this for quite a while now. I can feel the pain in the midback/scapula area especially when I pack my shoulder back or tilt my head side to side to stretch my neck. I also experience clicking and pain in my shoulder/collarbone region when I raise my hands overhead and pack my shoulders. Do you experience this?

It’s really frustrating as it disables me from performing certain exercises such as bench press and dips.

I’d hope the expert would chime in on this and help us out.
[/quote]

My symptoms are the same, but I found that if I warm up really well before working out (ie. run a bit on the treadmill before hand, do some jumping jacks, light stretches) I can do dips and bench press no problem.

Also, I think it’s relevant that I’ve had a pain spanning from my neck all the way down to the middle back on the left side. The pain is only felt when I tilt my head down as far as possible. It just feels like it’s pulling one long muscle that starts at the point where I usually have the soreness in my back.

It’s all interconnected in some way but I just can’t figure out what the problem is to fix it.

12

Cotton your problem sounds like a potential nerv pinch.
I am no expert but a small disc displacement or vertebra or a little flatter disc might be creating the pain.
Did you had any accident or suddent move?
At the lower area of our spine it is called sciatic. You might feel it in your knee or ankle or toe.
The nerve is pinched higher but the pain might irradiate elsewhere/lower.

I would focus on stretching my spine daily like just hanging or doing knee raises and avoid compressing my spine for a few weeks.
You might do single leg work to avoid loading your spine or squat using a quality backpack that transfer the load to your hips overpassing your higher vertebras/nerves.
A bad sitting position would not help.

It is likely you often do something that sould be avoided for 1-3 months or maybe forever.
Try to find the source of your problem it is the first step.
Plus rest, rehab…
All the best.

13

I guess that could be too. I once fell on a staircase and landed right on my spine against the edge of the step. It was somewhere in the mid-upper spine area, I guess right where the pain is right now, except the pain comes from tight muscles. I don’t see how a disc displacement or something like that could affect muscles near it. And that injury was several years ago.

I didn’t have this muscle problem then. I’ve tried not working out for several weeks at a time and that doesn’t seem to heal it. It gets worse with driving for long periods of time. It also gets bad if I’m up doing something all day or even just sitting on a bucket fishing. Goes away when I lay down to rest and/or massage the muscles.

How does a disc displacement or flatter disc get treated/fixed?

14

Our nerves reach our brain and travel close to our spine to spread all over.
You know the cause. I am not an expert but maybe an accupuncture person or a soft tissue therapist might help you.
The nerves exit the spine area and if our spine is problematic (compressed, out of proper aligment…) a nerve might be irritated.
Your brain calls that pain.
You might experience muscles spams wich might be temporairely helped by heat.
Avoid cold wich leads to contraction.
All the best!

15

You’ve had spine x-rays or just of your shoulder? No atrophy of your back? Numbness anywhere? Is your spine tender?

16

[quote]000 wrote:
You’ve had spine x-rays or just of your shoulder? No atrophy of your back? Numbness anywhere? Is your spine tender?[/quote]

No spine x-rays yet, just the shoulder. Plan to get the spine x-rays when I see a spine ortho next week. No atrophy of back as far as I can tell. No numbness. Nothing’s tender, just what feels like trigger points/tight muscles in the upper back.

I haven’t been so regular with deadlifts lately and so I’ve had little pains here and there around the spine every time I’ve deadlifted even not very much weight, but I figure I probably have 20 things wrong with my spine like everyone else if I ever got an MRI and the best thing to do is just keep deadlifting.

17

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Well… I just noticed a muscle on the left side of my back is shorter than on the right. Pics attached… Now I’m worried. Is it what caused the problem or an effect of it? How do I recruit that muscle again to balance myself out? Now that I know my left side is shorter, I can feel it.

18

I also just spoke with my friend chiropractor, who has shed some light on my issue. Made me think of when I may have injured my back. About 3 years ago I remember falling straight on my back, hitting my spine in almost that exact spot where the two asymmetrical muscles are. I think I even remember it cracking a little bit. It scared the hell out of me, but the pain went away in just a few minutes and I was able to move around and work out just fine.

And so apparently my fall could have caused a shift in my spine. My muscles compensated for a while but then my ligaments and nerves got compromised and started to cause pain.

Obviously he recommends I go see a chiropractor to receive adjustments to re-align my spine. I just wonder if this will really fix my problem and allow me to develop healthy un-inflamed and symmetrical muscles again. He doesn’t live in the same state as I so he’s not rooting for me to just go see him. Said an ortho wouldn’t really help and would just send me to physical therapy.

Really hoping for you knowledgeable guys to chime in here if you have any experience or intel on this…

19

Went to a Chiropractor and got an xray. He just said I have mild scoliosis and that’s why my left traps are constantly trying to pull my spine in place and the muscles are always sore. Couldn’t link it with the shoulder pain though. Said maybe since it’s connected to the shoulder, it’s pulling on that too.

I’m suspicious of chiropractors in general, but this guy said that 8 visits of a 10 minute electric muscle stimulation/massage and 2 back cracks should fix me? He just let me lay there with the electrodes connected for 10 minutes and a heat pad, then ran the handheld massager over my spine several times, and cracked my spine in 2 places both ways. And that’s how it’ll go for 7 more visits. I thought scoliosis is a more serious/permanent problem. I crack my own back all the time and have had scoliosis. Is this guy full of it?

20

[quote]CottonShoulder wrote:
Went to a Chiropractor and got an xray. He just said I have mild scoliosis and that’s why my left traps are constantly trying to pull my spine in place and the muscles are always sore. Couldn’t link it with the shoulder pain though. Said maybe since it’s connected to the shoulder, it’s pulling on that too.

I’m suspicious of chiropractors in general, but this guy said that 8 visits of a 10 minute electric muscle stimulation/massage and 2 back cracks should fix me? He just let me lay there with the electrodes connected for 10 minutes and a heat pad, then ran the handheld massager over my spine several times, and cracked my spine in 2 places both ways. And that’s how it’ll go for 7 more visits. I thought scoliosis is a more serious/permanent problem. I crack my own back all the time and have had scoliosis. Is this guy full of it?[/quote]

The important question is do YOU feel better after this treatment?