Yeah guys, if you go from doing westside to something completle different your lifts will probably go up just from the shock but not that much damn weight
well done
[quote]AgentOrange wrote:
ChuckyT wrote:
Shit, I wish you would have told me that before I put 500 pounds on my total using the basic Westside template…
Please point out to me where he says Westside doesn’t work.[/quote]
What is “Westside”?
I have been doing a hybrid program based off of Jack Reape’s article on elitefts. It is still conjugated training, just with more emphasis on repetition effort training.
This has been great for me and I’ve been setting PRs very consistently. I believe doing the 3x3s for bench and squat, and deadlifting more has allowed me to hone my technique.
The problem with what we refer to as the Westside method, is that you don’t have many lifts where you can focus on technique. Maybe I am speaking only for myself here, but when you do an ME lift, your form is likely to breakdown, and when you add in bands and chains to speed work, your form is usually less than ideal. This, theoretically, could lead to an injury since you are using poor form a couple times a week for the same lifts.
So, this post became kind of a tangent from the original, but I think that repetition work with the three power lifts is essential for beginner and intermediate lifters. But, the great thing about conjugate training is that you can use ME, DE, and RE work in the same cycle. Use all the tools you can.
Bear
[quote]Mr. Bear wrote:
The problem with what we refer to as the Westside method, is that you don’t have many lifts where you can focus on technique. Maybe I am speaking only for myself here, but when you do an ME lift, your form is likely to breakdown, and when you add in bands and chains to speed work, your form is usually less than ideal. This, theoretically, could lead to an injury since you are using poor form a couple times a week for the same lifts.
Bear[/quote]
Speak for yourself. I think that the idea is that either a) you’re not advanced enough to use bands/chains if they throw your form off a bunch, or b) you lower the bar weight until you can work on your speed with proper technique. Now, I’ve seen some of the numbers you put up elsewhere, so I don’t think a) is true, but maybe lower the bar weight a bit on speed day? Tate has said that’s a major mistake a lot of people make.
Anyway, I agree that anytime you go for a max your form suffers. Thats the nature of the max attempt. Good to see you’ve made great results with Shieko.
[quote]Mr. Bear wrote:
I have been doing a hybrid program based off of Jack Reape’s article on elitefts. It is still conjugated training, just with more emphasis on repetition effort training.
This has been great for me and I’ve been setting PRs very consistently. I believe doing the 3x3s for bench and squat, and deadlifting more has allowed me to hone my technique.
The problem with what we refer to as the Westside method, is that you don’t have many lifts where you can focus on technique. Maybe I am speaking only for myself here, but when you do an ME lift, your form is likely to breakdown, and when you add in bands and chains to speed work, your form is usually less than ideal. This, theoretically, could lead to an injury since you are using poor form a couple times a week for the same lifts.
So, this post became kind of a tangent from the original, but I think that repetition work with the three power lifts is essential for beginner and intermediate lifters. But, the great thing about conjugate training is that you can use ME, DE, and RE work in the same cycle. Use all the tools you can.
Bear[/quote]
Monthly Training Plan - 1
In base (preparation) period by coach Boris Sheiko (Russia)
(50% 5X1 ? where: 50% - percentage of maximum; 5 ? reps; 1 - sets)
1 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(34)
2.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 5Х5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 6Х2,65% 6Х4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
5.?Good mornings? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 116 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х4.(35)
2.Incline bench press 4Х6.
3.Dips 5Х5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х2,80% 3Х4.(35)
5.Squats ?Scissors? 5+5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 65 lifts
5 day (Friday)
1.Bench press 50% 7Х1,55% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,65% 4Х1, 70% 3Х2,75% 2Х2,70% 3Х2,65% 4Х1, 60% 6Х1,55% 8Х1,50% 10Х1.(66)
2.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
3.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(34)
4.French press 10Х5.
5.?Good mornings? (seating) 5Х5.
Total: 100 lifts
Total in a week: 286 lifts
2 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,80%2Х5.(29)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х6.(27)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Push ups on the floor with weight (hands shoulders wider) 10Х5
5.Squat 55% 3Х1,65% 3Х1,75% 3Х4.(18)
6.?Good mornings? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 74 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 4Х4.(28)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х2,70% 4Х5.(35)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Deadlift 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х5.(29)
5.Squat ?scissors? 5+5Х5.
Total: 92 lifts
5 day (Friday)
1.Squat 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,75% 3Х6(29)
2.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х2,80% 2Х2, 75% 4Х1,70% 5Х1,60% 6Х1,50% 7Х1.(51)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Triceps 10Х5.
5.Squat 55% 3Х1,65% 3Х1,75% 2Х4.(14)
6.?Good mornings? (seated) 6Х5.
Total: 80 lifts
Total in a week: 246 lifts
3 WEEK
1 day (Monday)
1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х2,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(34)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Push ups with weight 10Х5.
5.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х5.(35)
6.?Good mornings? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 99 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Deadlift till knees 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 4Х4(32)
2.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 4Х2,75% 3Х2, 80% 2Х2,75% 3х2,70% 4Х1,65% 5Х1, 60% 6Х1,55% 7Х1,50% 8Х1.(65)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Deadlift from boxes 60% 5Х1,70% 5Х2,80% 4Х4.(31)
5.Squat ?Scissors? 5+5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 123 lifts
5 day (Friday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х5.(25)
2.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х2,75% 4Х5.(40)
3.Bench press 50% 6Х1,60% 6Х2,65% 6Х4.(42)
4.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
5.?Good mornings? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 107 lifts
Total in a week: 329 lifts
4 WEEK
1 day (Monday))
1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(27)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х5.(30)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Dips 8Х5.
5.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 2Х4.(23)
6.?Good mornings? (standing) 5Х5.
Total: 80 lifts
3 day (Wednesday)
1.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(27)
2.Deadlift 50% 4Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х2, 85% 2Х3.(26)
3.Bench press 55% 5Х1,65% 5Х1,75% 4Х4.(26)
4.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
5.Squats ?Scissors? 5+5Х5.
Total: 79 lifts
5 day (Friday)
1.Squat 50% 5Х1,60% 4Х1,70% 3Х2,80% 3Х6.(33)
2.Bench press 50% 5Х1,60% 5Х1,70% 5Х5.(40)
3.Flat dumbbells ?flies?10Х5.
4.Dips 8Х5.
5.?Good mornings? (seating) 5Х5.
6.Abs 10Х3.
Total: 73 lifts
Total in a week: 232 lifts
Total in a month: 1093 lifts
Monthly volume in lifts (reps) by weekly cycles
Exercises-SQUATS–BENCH PRESS—DEADLIFTS
Week 1-----74---------142------------- 70
Week 2-----90---------113-------------57
Week 3-----109-------162-------------63
Week 4----- 83--------123-------------26
Monthly-----356-------540------------216
Exercises–Good Morninigs–Other-----# of workouts
1 week-----50-----------------254----------3
2 week-----55-----------------275----------3
3 week-----50-----------------255----------3
4 week-----50-----------------285----------3
Monthly-----205---------------1069--------12
I’ve posted several times regarding the Sheiko programs being that I’ve used them for the better part of two years or so.
Initially, I gained strength rapidly, and as most programs do, I started to stall out with my progress. I think the reason these workouts are a success is because the lifter increases his volume so much that the end result is an increase in strength. I recommend these workouts for anyone just getting started in Powerlifting.
My beef with the template is that there really isn’t any varience. This is where I had to modify and add a little more Westside to this program. Again, this helped, and my strength was still going up. I then reached a point where the workouts didn’t make any progress, and in fact, I think I was going backwards. In fact, I think I had some light tearing in my peck from benching and flying so much, to the point that I had to stop lifting for about 3 months.
At that point, I switched totally to Conjugate, and I’ve seen steady increases again. Ultimately, I think Conjugate is absolutely the way to go, but the lifter has to understand what they need to improve. There are going to be times when move volume is needed to make gains, and at that point, one needs to make that switch to keep progressing.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Mr. Bear wrote:
The problem with what we refer to as the Westside method, is that you don’t have many lifts where you can focus on technique. Maybe I am speaking only for myself here, but when you do an ME lift, your form is likely to breakdown, and when you add in bands and chains to speed work, your form is usually less than ideal. This, theoretically, could lead to an injury since you are using poor form a couple times a week for the same lifts.
Bear
Speak for yourself. I think that the idea is that either a) you’re not advanced enough to use bands/chains if they throw your form off a bunch, or b) you lower the bar weight until you can work on your speed with proper technique. Now, I’ve seen some of the numbers you put up elsewhere, so I don’t think a) is true, but maybe lower the bar weight a bit on speed day? Tate has said that’s a major mistake a lot of people make.
Anyway, I agree that anytime you go for a max your form suffers. Thats the nature of the max attempt. Good to see you’ve made great results with Shieko.[/quote]
I didn’t use Sheiko; I still use conjugate training.
So, I think you missed my point. If you have a technique flaw, it is hard to address it when you are not doing any RE work for the three powerlifts. When you are only doing ME work and DE work with accomadating resistance, you must have very tight technique. Your body goes into survival mode, and just wants you to get the weight any way possible, often leading to a breakdown in form. So, in my case, I locked myself into a few bad habits, and after doing a couple mesocycles where rep work was emphasized over speed work, I got stronger because I improved technique.
Bear
When you say 80% 3x5 is that 3 sets of 5 or 5 sets of 3? I think I’m gonna give this a go after I’m done with abbh.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
When you say 80% 3x5 is that 3 sets of 5 or 5 sets of 3? I think I’m gonna give this a go after I’m done with abbh.[/quote]
The Russians do it “backwards” from what we’re used to:
(50% 5X1 ? where: 50% - percentage of maximum; 5 ? reps; 1 - sets)
So, their 3x5 = our 5x3.
That’s what I’d gathered from the way you put it. Also, are there timed rest periods or do you just wing it? Thanks alot for writing this out.
[quote]Mr. Bear wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
Mr. Bear wrote:
The problem with what we refer to as the Westside method, is that you don’t have many lifts where you can focus on technique. Maybe I am speaking only for myself here, but when you do an ME lift, your form is likely to breakdown, and when you add in bands and chains to speed work, your form is usually less than ideal. This, theoretically, could lead to an injury since you are using poor form a couple times a week for the same lifts.
Bear
Speak for yourself. I think that the idea is that either a) you’re not advanced enough to use bands/chains if they throw your form off a bunch, or b) you lower the bar weight until you can work on your speed with proper technique. Now, I’ve seen some of the numbers you put up elsewhere, so I don’t think a) is true, but maybe lower the bar weight a bit on speed day? Tate has said that’s a major mistake a lot of people make.
Anyway, I agree that anytime you go for a max your form suffers. Thats the nature of the max attempt. Good to see you’ve made great results with Shieko.
I didn’t use Sheiko; I still use conjugate training.
So, I think you missed my point. If you have a technique flaw, it is hard to address it when you are not doing any RE work for the three powerlifts. When you are only doing ME work and DE work with accomadating resistance, you must have very tight technique. Your body goes into survival mode, and just wants you to get the weight any way possible, often leading to a breakdown in form. So, in my case, I locked myself into a few bad habits, and after doing a couple mesocycles where rep work was emphasized over speed work, I got stronger because I improved technique.
Bear
[/quote]
Quite right, I didn’t read you correctly. My bad.
[quote]Dominator wrote:
Ultimately, I think Conjugate is absolutely the way to go, but the lifter has to understand what they need to improve. There are going to be times when move volume is needed to make gains, and at that point, one needs to make that switch to keep progressing.[/quote]
agreed
So anybody who has tried this program did you have to work into the volume or did you just go all the way into it. Was the volume an issue at all or not. I think i wanna try this program but i want to some more insider reaction to it. thank you
This program looks really interesting. I imagine you have to eat everything that isn’t tied down, 'cause the volume is insane. I was wondering if anyone else has any results they’d be willing to post. Size, stength, weight gain/loss all that shit. Thanks.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
So anybody who has tried this program did you have to work into the volume or did you just go all the way into it. Was the volume an issue at all or not. I think i wanna try this program but i want to some more insider reaction to it. thank you[/quote]
I guess it depends on which program you start first. If you do the beginer workouts first and are working on training maxes, I think the volume is doable. Part of the problem with people who do the workout is that they use their contest maxes to work off the percentages rather than training maxes. The Russian’s tend to use very high volume, but they also use lower maxes for their training numbers, so it all equals out, but if you didn’t know that about the Russians, you be doing these high volume training programs and overtraining in about three weeks.
Part of the problem with the Russian workouts is that they’re written back in the Spartakaide where drug use was as accepted as chewing gum. I have some workouts not in everyday circulation that openly talks about “restoratives” to be used during specific parts of the program. Now if you were doing some of these workouts not on any gear and didn’t really understand that the workouts were intended to be done with drugs, you’d overtrain in a couple weeks or so.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
This program looks really interesting. I imagine you have to eat everything that isn’t tied down, 'cause the volume is insane. I was wondering if anyone else has any results they’d be willing to post. Size, stength, weight gain/loss all that shit. Thanks.[/quote]
I’d say that rapid weight gain is very common with these workouts. I’d say I gained about 15 lbs in roughly 12 weeks. I was starving all the time. I’d finish eating, and as soon as I was finished, I was hungry again and had to make myself a shake or something.
I’d say weight loss really isn’t going to happen on these workouts. I’m just not sure how it can be done unless you get yourself to the point of overtraining which I could see happening very easily, but if done correctly, I’d say you gain a fair amount of weight.
thankx
[quote]Dominator wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
This program looks really interesting. I imagine you have to eat everything that isn’t tied down, 'cause the volume is insane. I was wondering if anyone else has any results they’d be willing to post. Size, stength, weight gain/loss all that shit. Thanks.
I’d say that rapid weight gain is very common with these workouts. I’d say I gained about 15 lbs in roughly 12 weeks. I was starving all the time. I’d finish eating, and as soon as I was finished, I was hungry again and had to make myself a shake or something.
I’d say weight loss really isn’t going to happen on these workouts. I’m just not sure how it can be done unless you get yourself to the point of overtraining which I could see happening very easily, but if done correctly, I’d say you gain a fair amount of weight.
[/quote]
I personally didn’t gain much weight on this program but I just chalk that up to my high metabolism. I was eating MUCH more than normal though. Restorative measures are definitely a must. Epsom salt baths, massages after each workout, a serving of Surge after each workout, contrast showers and some sled work.
My GPP was pretty high anyway, but if you are considering doing this program I highly recommend breaking the workouts into 2 mini sessions. Also if you can, add in some Kettlebell swings. They are hip savers.
[quote]Charlemagne wrote:
Restorative measures are definitely a must. Epsom salt baths, massages after each workout, a serving of Surge after each workout, contrast showers and some sled work.
My GPP was pretty high anyway, but if you are considering doing this program I highly recommend breaking the workouts into 2 mini sessions. Also if you can, add in some Kettlebell swings. They are hip savers.
[/quote]
Those weren’t the restorative measures I was talking about, but they certainly can only help.
The workouts are absolutely meant to be split into two seperate lifts. Whenever the first exercise repeats, that’s where the second lift is supposed to begin. I actually tried it both ways, all in one workout and broken up, and doing it all at once is insane, IMO.