Have any of you guys had success using Sheiko or a similar Russian approach to improve the conventional deadlift? What changes did you make? I’ve been trying to use Sheiko for the conventional deadlift and almost every time I’ve seen no improvement. I do the program with a correct max, make all the lifts fairly comfortably and expect to improve, but fail all to do so. I’m doing the deadlifts to knees with a pause at the knees, and a finish.
Also, for the “deadlifts from blocks” I’m setting the bar below the knees. I’ve tried (37, 32), (37, 30, 32), (37, first 2 weeks of 32), (37, last 2 weeks of 32) and it’s all been futile. I thought to try the deadlifts as in Sheiko’s new universal appropriate program
(deadlifts twice a week).
Once again, I completed all the lifts successfully, but failed to improve the max. N.B. I’m around 160lb and stuck at 405lb on the deadlift.
So, if you guys have had any success using a Sheiko-like approach for your conventional pull, how was it done?
I’m now looking at this program by Surovetsky.
Do you guys think it could work? Surovetsky seems to like lifters to do heavy partial reps (rack pulls in this case) on the heavy day, using 100-110% of the max.
Thanks for any help. By all means, use this topic to discuss successful methods for improving the conventional pull.
No disrespect intended but maybe the issue is your “making the lifts fairly comfortably”?
I know I have been stagnate for months until I started the program I am currently on and it requires you to go balls out every week, adding weight to the bar each week and attempting to better, or atleast match the previous week or die trying. Boom added 50 lbs to my deadlift, 30 lbs onto my squat and my bench is tied with the best its ever been.
I’ve been using Sheiko for more than a year now and have seen some steady gains with my deadlift. The past couple of cycles I’ve been running #40 and have adjusted my deadlift days a bit.
Here’s a quick breakdown of my deadlift days over the 4 weeks, hope this gives you an idea of how you can tailor it to your needs:
I like this a little more than what #40 originally lays out because I’m usually a little slow off the floor. I needed to include some deficit deadlifts to work on that weakness. I also threw in paused deadlifts to help with the initial push and to stay tight the entire time. My last meet I pulled a 573 PR (early January) and after these last two cycles, I finished with a 600 PR just earlier this week. My next meet is this Sunday, I’ll let you know how it carries over to actual platform.
[quote]kjmont wrote:
No disrespect intended but maybe the issue is your “making the lifts fairly comfortably”?
I know I have been stagnate for months until I started the program I am currently on and it requires you to go balls out every week, adding weight to the bar each week and attempting to better, or atleast match the previous week or die trying. Boom added 50 lbs to my deadlift, 30 lbs onto my squat and my bench is tied with the best its ever been.
Maybe the issue is just intensity…[/quote]
sorry, you simply don’t understand it, …it is volume based with moderate low intensity on a strength phase average intensity around 70% or less, power phase somewhat higher but never as high as 80%, there are heavy sessions moderate and light sessions, “balls out every session” is no where near when understanding it, sounds more like Mike Menzter
spent 3 + hours listening to the man, last year, think whoever you got your info off is way off
[quote]kjmont wrote:
No disrespect intended but maybe the issue is your “making the lifts fairly comfortably”?
I know I have been stagnate for months until I started the program I am currently on and it requires you to go balls out every week, adding weight to the bar each week and attempting to better, or atleast match the previous week or die trying. Boom added 50 lbs to my deadlift, 30 lbs onto my squat and my bench is tied with the best its ever been.
Maybe the issue is just intensity…[/quote]
sorry, you simply don’t understand it, …it is volume based with moderate low intensity on a strength phase average intensity around 70% or less, power phase somewhat higher but never as high as 80%, there are heavy sessions moderate and light sessions, “balls out every session” is no where near when understanding it, sounds more like Mike Menzter
spent 3 + hours listening to the man, last year, think whoever you got your info off is way off[/quote]
I wasn’t specifically talking about sheiko I was just broadly saying that maybe intensity was the issue. For me intense programs work better for me than training maxes or staying conservative. And your right I do not know enough about sheiko I will admit that. And for the record the program was from Leeman not Mentzer.
to answer your question, I am a bit disappointed on how my dead has gone. Been using a Sheiko based template since August, and have to say that even though the %s are not high the volume is very demanding. Squat has no problem. Last hit out (three weeks before comp) and did a double 22.5kgs better than my best training triple, after doing my hit out on deads and slightly straining my back. Last 17 week cycle similar, bench going well but dead stuck.
I have noticed my form has improved a lot, keep hips lower for longer, the pull from above knees is a snap now, but floor to 6 inches below knees is no better, although my hips stay lower and back flatter,
my hammies are much stronger BUT my lower back due to the lower %s is not getting enough heavy work to pull the big ones when I need it.
not abandoning it but tweaking it a bit on the next cycle, still not sure exactly how but will take some lifts closer to max effort with less volume on some weeks
[quote]MegaDavo891 wrote:
If you’re weak off the floor rather than lockout (back/midsection vs posterior chain), pause an inch off the floor instead of at the knees.[/quote]
but in discussing Sheiko that is not one of the many variations
In discussing “Sheiko”, Boris Sheiko is a coach, and the numbered programs are examples of what he has tailored to individuals. You are an individual, and thus he would look at your particular needs and wants. If you use someone else’s personal program, be prepared to adapt it. The best use of Sheiko-style programming I’ve seen is when people understand the ideas and adapt.
Boris even has a list (which imagine is a lot longer than what I could find) of Special Preparatory Exercises based on needs:
(From BMF board)
SQUAT
SUPPLEMENTAL
Pause Sq
Box Sq
Fr Box Sq
DE Sq
Slow Sq
Front Sq
Wide Front Sq
DEVELOPMENTAL
Zercher Lunge
Front Lunge
Hack Lunge
Duck Foot Sq
Negative Sq
Belt Sq
Sq Lockouts
Crouch Sq ?
Sq with Chains
Smith Machine Sq
Leg Press
Leg Extension
Ham Curls
Sq Jumps
Depth Jumps
Box Jumps
Calf Raises
Snatch Grip High Pulls
Snatch Grip High Pulls from Boxes
Seated High Pulls ?
Hyperextensions/Weighted in various ways
Seated GM
BENCH
SUPPLEMENTAL
Wide Grip High-touch Bench
Medium Grip Bench
Close Grip Bench
Bench over Foam (arch)
Flat Back Bench
Slow Bench
3-5 sec Pause Bench
Rvs Grip Bench
DE Bench
Negatives
Lockouts
Bench with Chains
Defecit DL
Pulls to Knees
Pause Pulls to Knees
Pulls to Knees + finish
Pulls to Knees + Mid Thigh (2 Stops)
Pulls from Boxes + Slow Eccentric
Pulls from Boxes (BTK)
DL Lockouts
Pulls from High Boxes (ATK)
Snatch Grip Pulls from Boxes
DEVELOPMENTAL
Snatch Grip Pulls
Pulls with Chains
High Pulls
Shrugs
Belt Sqs
Seated Pulls ?
GM?s
Stiff Leg GM?s
Seated GM?s
Hyperextensions/Weighted Hypers
Roman Chair Situp
Decline Situp
Leg Raises
I’ve also not enjoyed must success with deadlifts using sheiko.My bench has increased about 17.5kg in 4 months and my squat has improved a fair bit too while my dead (my weakest lift anyway) hasn’t improved all too much. The first time I ran sheiko (32 and cms prep) I did the pulling to knees and deficit deads but this time I adjusted it and have just been doing full deadlifts and deadlifts from a deficit, from the floor I am weak but my lockout is strong so this seems to make sense. I have a meet on saturday so I’ll be able to see if it was wise to change the program around.