More Sheiko Questions

Training Powerlifting
1

Hiya fellas, longtime lurker, firs time poster.

I’m thinking about trying sheiko #29 for the first time, i’d like to hit a 3/4/5, but i dont know my ass from a hole in the ground:

deadlifts from pins/boxes: what height? knee height, where the deadlift to knees leaves off, or more like a lockout with a short range of movement?

should i supplement in chins or rows, something to balance out the upper back? when and what? how intense?

some excercises are described without weights, like lunges and flyes, i assume these should be done with light weight to stretch things out?

what should a warmup look like with this sort of routine? mostly dynamic, 10 mins or so, no cardio? can i do upper back things to get the juices flowing?

any help is appreciated in the ass/hole in the ground conundrum. thanks!

2

[quote]thirdnalga wrote:
Hiya fellas, longtime lurker, firs time poster.

I’m thinking about trying sheiko #29 for the first time, i’d like to hit a 3/4/5, but i dont know my ass from a hole in the ground:

deadlifts from pins/boxes: what height? knee height, where the deadlift to knees leaves off, or more like a lockout with a short range of movement?

should i supplement in chins or rows, something to balance out the upper back? when and what? how intense?

some excercises are described without weights, like lunges and flyes, i assume these should be done with light weight to stretch things out?

what should a warmup look like with this sort of routine? mostly dynamic, 10 mins or so, no cardio? can i do upper back things to get the juices flowing?

any help is appreciated in the ass/hole in the ground conundrum. thanks![/quote]

I would recommend running #29, then #37, and end with #32. As far as the deadlift from pins/boxes go I try to do them from the bottom of my knee, but right around the knee is the idea. Also, this program is more or less duplicated in the article “Sheiko Shakes up Powerlifting.”

You can certainly do upper back work, just make sure it doesn’t affect the other exercises. You may have to experiment a bit with how much volume/intensity will work for you. I would recommend dumbbell rows over barbell rows because you’ll probably have some lower back fatigue from all the squatting and deadlifting.

I think a 10 minute dynamic warm-up should be sufficient. I would never start with the work sets on the exercises either. I’d do 2-4 warm-up sets on the main exercises (squat, bench, deadlift). Do whatever it takes for you to be prepared for the work sets.

The exercises that do not include loading parameters should still be loaded.
Dips: whatever weight you can add and get the reps
DB Flyes: typically 10% of raw bench
Good Mornings: typically 40% of raw squat
Lunges: whatever works, I’ve done 35% of squat

I would typically do something that was somewhat challenging on these exercises and that seemed to work fine. Sets were difficult but I could do another set 1 minute later.

Here is a Sheiko forum that might help you: http://bmfsports.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sheiko.

On off days do whatever it takes for you to recover, nothing more.

3

[quote]thirdnalga wrote:
Hiya fellas, longtime lurker, firs time poster.

I’m thinking about trying sheiko #29 for the first time, i’d like to hit a 3/4/5, but i dont know my ass from a hole in the ground:

deadlifts from pins/boxes: what height? knee height, where the deadlift to knees leaves off, or more like a lockout with a short range of movement?[/quote] It would depend on your individual weakness, but as a general guideline if you use the bottom of the knee you should be good.

[quote]should i supplement in chins or rows, something to balance out the upper back? when and what? how intense?[/quote] You could, but if you’ve never done the program before why not just try it as is. You won’t develop any glaring imbalances from excluding chins for 4 weeks.

[quote]some excercises are described without weights, like lunges and flyes, i assume these should be done with light weight to stretch things out?[/quote]Yes.

[quote]what should a warmup look like with this sort of routine? mostly dynamic, 10 mins or so, no cardio? can i do upper back things to get the juices flowing?[/quote] Really individual. Some days I walk in and just warm up with a set or two of my first movement, other times I spend 10-15 minutes just on my shoulders/scap work or hips and knees. Just be sure you’re getting things warmed up and not getting in a training session before you start your training session.

I haven’t done any Sheiko programs in a while, but from what I remember the first week or so is rather deceiving. You’ll feel like you’re not doing much and you’ll plan to add in other stuff (back work) and maybe bump up your maxes a bit. But it’s a cumulative effect when the program starts to get more difficult.

So my advise is be honest with your maxes and give the program 4 weeks (I think that’s how long that one is) as is. You can manipulate after that.

4

[quote]mrodock wrote:
I would recommend running #29, then #37, and end with #32. As far as the deadlift from pins/boxes go I try to do them from the bottom of my knee, but right around the knee is the idea. Also, this program is more or less duplicated in the article “Sheiko Shakes up Powerlifting.”
[/quote]

Agreed. I think it’s a really well layed out program. Some people may not care for Dave Bates or Eric Talmant, but they have put together a solid program.

The biggest complaints I’ve heard from people doing Sheiko is that they weren’t ready for all the volume, and that the Bench portion seemed too easy.

The 13 week beginner cycle essentially eases you into Sheiko with a 1 week conditioning week, 4 weeks of scaled back #37, 4 more weeks of #37 with the bench intensity ramped up, and a 4 week peaking cycle.

I do three days of GPP/Active recovery on my off days. I rotate exercises each day (usually 4 per day) and do 3 sets of 10 on average. I use a weight that it somewhat challenging, but not enough to effect the real workouts. My exercises include Lat Pulldowns, T-Bar Rows, DB Shoulder Press, EZ Curls, GHR, Hypers, Reverse Hypers, Standing Band Crunch, Cable Crunches, Foam Rolling, Bridging/Glute Activation, etc.

5

thanks guys, i’m gonna go test my maxes today (just got off the dan john 40 day (29 in my case)workout. we’ll see what happens.

6

Bump, a 3 week cycle was good for:
440 squat (up 75 lbs)
315 bench (up 15 lbs and now no pain from a previous subacromial impingement)
485 deadlift (up about 35, missed 495 due to lack of chalk, bar speed was great)

I’m definitely a believer, this stuff works.

7

Those are some great results. Which cycle did you use that was only three weeks long?

Edit: I think a Sheiko sticky would be useful.

8

[quote]thirdnalga wrote:

485 deadlift (up about 35, missed 495 due to lack of chalk, bar speed was great)

I’m definitely a believer, this stuff works.[/quote]

Throw on some straps and you’ve got 3/4/5

9

sorry, 3 month cycle. 29/37/32

10

I’m about to start the same 3 month cycle on Monday, thanks for posting your results, our numbers are in the same area, hopefully I will get similar results.

11

Did you work off of the same maxes for all three cycles (until testing in 32)?

12

Does anyone besides myself run the original (or modified original) sheiko routine and not efs’s?

I think I am, lol.

13

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Did you work off of the same maxes for all three cycles (until testing in 32)?[/quote]

I worked off a squat number 25lbs higher, and bench/deadlift were accurate. i bumped up
5 lbs on bench, and 10 for squat/dead going into #37. retrospectively, it would have been better to make a higher jump with a week deload in between cycles. I’m going to try that next time. i ran them back to back and my knees were in pieces around week 7, so i took a week off entirely and went into #32.

14

Synthetic - I was under the impression that the Joe Skopec templates (if that is what you’re referring to) were for CMS/MS. Are there different versions of the rated templates anywhere?
And for the record, I’m running #29 right now. I’m basing it off a spreadsheet whence I can’t even remember, but I think it matches up with EFS’s versions.

Thirdnalga - Thanks for the info. That’s exactly what I was wondering about.

15

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Synthetic - I was under the impression that the Joe Skopec templates (if that is what you’re referring to) were for CMS/MS. Are there different versions of the rated templates anywhere?
And for the record, I’m running #29 right now. I’m basing it off a spreadsheet whence I can’t even remember, but I think it matches up with EFS’s versions.

Thirdnalga - Thanks for the info. That’s exactly what I was wondering about.[/quote]

bcignu,

I never really worried about classifications. I don’t limit myself in any fashion. I do the CMS every cycle, consistently. I started with whatever weight for squat/bench/deadlift I could handle and adjusted the max accordingly as I got accustomed to the routine.

I have no seen different versions, although that does not mean there aren’t any.

I like the CMS as I believe its a solid way to start sheiko and allows for anyone to heavily alter the routine to fit their lifestyle and any limitations they may have (that are legit).

16

[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
bcingu wrote:
Synthetic - I was under the impression that the Joe Skopec templates (if that is what you’re referring to) were for CMS/MS. Are there different versions of the rated templates anywhere?
And for the record, I’m running #29 right now. I’m basing it off a spreadsheet whence I can’t even remember, but I think it matches up with EFS’s versions.

Thirdnalga - Thanks for the info. That’s exactly what I was wondering about.

bcignu,

I never really worried about classifications. I don’t limit myself in any fashion. I do the CMS every cycle, consistently. I started with whatever weight for squat/bench/deadlift I could handle and adjusted the max accordingly as I got accustomed to the routine.

I have no seen different versions, although that does not mean there aren’t any.

I like the CMS as I believe its a solid way to start sheiko and allows for anyone to heavily alter the routine to fit their lifestyle and any limitations they may have (that are legit).[/quote]

I see what your saying but the CMS programme is for people who are CMS and is designed purposely for those lifters.

Also can Sheiko be heavily altered? Did sheiko say it could be heavily altered?

17

Aaron_lohan,

From what I remember, the gist of what Sheko was trying to get across was that his workout was generic for a powerlifter, but it could be altered and should be since everyone is an individual. You could split up the heavy squat / bench day into two days, which I did. You could split up every day and do it over two days. Whatever works for you.

I have HEAVILY altered sheiko over the 3 years I’ve used it to suit my needs. This should apply to any routine in terms of necessity. People who do not evolve their training to accomodate their needs will be left in the dust.

If you look at my log in this section, you may say “WTF, this isn’t Sheiko”… at least not at first appearance.

I don’t believe that I am supposed to follow ANY routine to a tee once I find “flaws” in it. By that, I mean, exercises or techniques that I do not get the best result out of. This is simple logic. Improve upon everything, always.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it? Hell… Make it so YOU can’t break.

18

bcingu, try this for size:
http://rapidshare.com/files/140132973/Sheiko_Spreadsheet_2008.08.25.xls.html

19

[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
I never really worried about classifications. I don’t limit myself in any fashion. I do the CMS every cycle, consistently. I started with whatever weight for squat/bench/deadlift I could handle and adjusted the max accordingly as I got accustomed to the routine.

I have no seen different versions, although that does not mean there aren’t any.

I like the CMS as I believe its a solid way to start sheiko and allows for anyone to heavily alter the routine to fit their lifestyle and any limitations they may have (that are legit).[/quote]

You make a point. My only argument would be that you’re a strong motherfucker, so it makes sense that it would work for you.
Personally, I just got my ass kicked by a deadlift session, and can’t even imagine doing anything more difficult. Seventeen sets of deadlift variations = FML.

20

Thanks for the link, thirdnalga. That’s actually what I’ve been using, but I’ve been trying to find the original (unmodified by me) version of it again.