Shaping Chest

Training Bodybuilding
61

Wow. This thread is degenerating even with the wise and calming input from CT.

Kael, you look fine as far as I can tell in the rather poorly lighted pictures. You’re not fat but your chest is not what most of us would label “stunning” either. You sound young and I’ll tell you now that you are way ahead of the game compared to the kids I see at the gym. Keep hitting your chest from a variety of angles and do the same for your back. Don’t forget that the antagonist muscles there must develop in order to maintain balance in looks as well as strength and joint health. Eat alot of quality foods and get your rest. Then we’ll see about “stunning”. Keep up the good work but do it for yourself, not the guys at the gym or on the boards!

62

[quote]Bob A wrote:
From my own experience it seems possible to target upper and lower portions of the chest and it also makes sense on paper when looking at the anatomy of the pecs. I am not convinced that one can specifically alter “inner” and “outer” chest development however.[/quote]

If a muscle has multiple attachments, then certainly some fibers may be stressed more than others for certain joint angles and directions of pull.

63

I have taken BF% measurements using calipers. There is a lot of variation between them. I have done a 7-site method and a 9-site method. There was about a 3% difference between the two. You will find that the more sites you test, the higher your BF% becomes. Only testing 2 sites is ridiculous and no where near accurate.

[quote]Kael231 wrote:
When the doctor tested for the fat he didn’t do 3,4,5,6 or 7 pinches…he did 2: abs and triceps. As for his calculations I’m unsure of that.

Earlier in the thread, some talk of doing a chest workout of only incline and the day following noticing only an upper chest soreness, not all around. Here is my question…if the pec major is only 1 muscle…how can there be soreness on certain areas of this 1 muscle if it all contracts together?? Another question…if i focused more on decline bench and left out flat bench for a while…would my flat bench numbers go down?

When CT said earlier that there is no such thing as inner chest/outer chest, etc. how come some guys’ chests that I see at the gym stick out on the outside, then fade into the center?? And before I go back and begin correcting people, why would so many bodybuilders tell me to do cable flys and squeeze when I come through because it will get my inner chest? Same goes for doing inside bench press? Are these guys just full of shit?[/quote]

64

[quote]Kael231 wrote:
Here is my question…if the pec major is only 1 muscle…how can there be soreness on certain areas of this 1 muscle if it all contracts together?? [/quote]

Because of the area the entire pec muscle takes up. If force is directed from a superior position downward, the fibers that run horizintally closer to the clavicles will exert the greatest force against it. If it were a smaller muscle group in terms of area, like the biceps, with all of the fibers running in the same direction as most force applied, this would not be the case. Check out the diagram that CT posted in terms of how those fibers run.

[quote]
Another question…if i focused more on decline bench and left out flat bench for a while…would my flat bench numbers go down? [/quote]

Yes, because strength is not just from mass but also from neurological adaptation. that means some strength is increased simply because it is a learned response.

[quote]
When CT said earlier that there is no such thing as inner chest/outer chest, etc. how come some guys’ chests that I see at the gym stick out on the outside, then fade into the center??[/quote]

I think you need to realize that if someone doesn’t have enough chest mass, they will not have that “cleavage” that more mass gives. That is it, period.

[quote]
And before I go back and begin correcting people, why would so many bodybuilders tell me to do cable flys and squeeze when I come through because it will get my inner chest? Same goes for doing inside bench press? Are these guys just full of shit?[/quote]

No, those guys are full of old magazine articles that talked about flyes and inner pecs since the 1960’s. I ahve only recently seen them stop throwing that nonsense in. It is the same as the myth that pullovers increase rib cage width. That is impossible because no muscle involved with the inner width of your rib cage (the diaphragm and the inner intercostals) is involved in the pullover.

65

Well aparently you’ve gained some bodyfat and lost some muscle in the past two months considering in this post you stated:

and in your post on another thread from June…

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=666688

you claimed:

According to my calculations, you’ve lost around 8.5 lbs of lean body mass and gained 4.5 lbs of fat in two months. Man, either your program really sucks or your measurement method does. :wink:

66

[quote]Kael231 wrote:
When the doctor tested for the fat he didn’t do 3,4,5,6 or 7 pinches…he did 2: abs and triceps. As for his calculations I’m unsure of that.

Earlier in the thread, some talk of doing a chest workout of only incline and the day following noticing only an upper chest soreness, not all around. Here is my question…if the pec major is only 1 muscle…how can there be soreness on certain areas of this 1 muscle if it all contracts together?? Another question…if i focused more on decline bench and left out flat bench for a while…would my flat bench numbers go down?

When CT said earlier that there is no such thing as inner chest/outer chest, etc. how come some guys’ chests that I see at the gym stick out on the outside, then fade into the center?? And before I go contradicting bodybuilders at the gym, why would so many bodybuilders tell me to do cable flys and squeeze when I come through because it will get my inner chest? Same goes for doing inside bench press? Are these guys just full of shit?[/quote]

Yes, they are full of shit and they gather their training information exclusively from Muscle & Fitness. Kael, you need to spend some quality time at the Nation and soak up some practical, real-life, proven science-based training information instead of relying on these “bodybuilders” at your gym. Cable crossovers and flyes in the same chest routine…God help us all. You need to eat, cut back on your sets for chest, eat and lift heavy.

67

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1124915338862.bodyfat1.jpg

this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

68

[quote]Warrior Spirit wrote:
Well aparently you’ve gained some bodyfat in the past two months considering in your post on the thread below

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=666688

you claimed:

I am 20, weigh 177, 6’1" , and only have about 1-2% body fat

Where did you get that number?[/quote]

Yes I remember that post and I got a lot of shit for it…I was in a recreational center with a small gym and they had just got those hand-held BF testers I’m sure you’ve all seen them where you enter your stats such as height, weight, age, sex…anyways the machine kept saying error then a number after I held it for a few seconds…when I asked the worker who gave it to me what it meant…she said that error means that your BF is too low to measure and she said that I must have been around 1-2%. That’s where that number came from.

69

[quote]mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

[/quote]

Im sure this sounds very juvenille but how do you get those striations in your chest as well as shoulders/biceps and everywhere else? Is that what you get after you eliminate sodium from your body? I’m not asking this because I’m anywhere close to that stage but I was just wondering for future knowledge.

70

We should just let it go. He’s off on his bodyfat estimation, and those who have measured it for him are clueless. He gets it now.

71

[quote]mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…
[/quote]

Dude, that is the “definition” of shredded. Competition pic?

72

[quote]Kael231 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

Im sure this sounds very juvenille but how do you get those striations in your chest as well as shoulders/biceps and everywhere else? Is that what you get after you eliminate sodium from your body? I’m not asking this because I’m anywhere close to that stage but I was just wondering for future knowledge.[/quote]

Working out for 10 years so you have quality muscle and then getting your body fat down very low…you need to do both…

Cutting sodium and carb loading are just details…that only work once you have done the above…

73

[quote]Kael231 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

Im sure this sounds very juvenille but how do you get those striations in your chest as well as shoulders/biceps and everywhere else? Is that what you get after you eliminate sodium from your body? I’m not asking this because I’m anywhere close to that stage but I was just wondering for future knowledge.[/quote]

kae1231,

who cares, if you have striations on anything.

Your “fitness programm” should be no more complicated than eat, lift, eat, sleep, repeat, for the next five years or so.

Every moment you think more about your training than that, you are really avoiding the only thing that is important at your age. Getting laid.

74

[quote]orion wrote:
Kael231 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

Im sure this sounds very juvenille but how do you get those striations in your chest as well as shoulders/biceps and everywhere else? Is that what you get after you eliminate sodium from your body? I’m not asking this because I’m anywhere close to that stage but I was just wondering for future knowledge.

kae1231,

who cares, if you have striations on anything.

Your “fitness programm” should be no more complicated than eat, lift, eat, sleep, repeat, for the next five year or so.

Every moment you think more about your training than that, you are really avoiding the only thing that is important at your age. Getting laid.

[/quote]

Once again thanks for your wisdom…I already know that my priorities are to eat, sleep, and lift but thanks anyways for reinforcing that into my head…BTW notice how I said I AM NOWHERE NEAR CLOSE TO THAT STAGE…i said that specifically so know one would post saying what the hell do you care youre nowhere near that. I wanted to know so I can become more knowlegable…and we all know that knowledge=POWER!!
And as for your comment on me avoiding the only thing that is important to me at my age…the reason I focus so much on bodybuilding is because It is becoming very important to me…I feel great when I work out and I know that it’s good for me…it’s one of the very few healthy habits I have.

I have a girlfriend, why would I worry about getting laid?

75

[quote]orion wrote:

Every moment you think more about your training than that, you are really avoiding the only thing that is important at your age. Getting laid.

[/quote]

That advice is priceless.

76

quote]Kael231 wrote:
orion wrote:
Kael231 wrote:
mtotry wrote:
this is me 2+ years ago at 5.5 bodyfat. I was tested with underwater weighing and the futurex 5000…

Im sure this sounds very juvenille but how do you get those striations in your chest as well as shoulders/biceps and everywhere else? Is that what you get after you eliminate sodium from your body? I’m not asking this because I’m anywhere close to that stage but I was just wondering for future knowledge.

kae1231,

who cares, if you have striations on anything.

Your “fitness programm” should be no more complicated than eat, lift, eat, sleep, repeat, for the next five year or so.

Every moment you think more about your training than that, you are really avoiding the only thing that is important at your age. Getting laid.

Once again thanks for youre wisdom…I already know that my priorities are to eat, sleep, and lift but thanks anyways for reinforcing that into my head…BTW notice how I said I AM NOWHERE NEAR CLOSE TO THAT STAGE…i said that specifically so know one would post saying what the hell do you care youre nowhere near that. I wanted to know so I can become more knowlegable…and we all know that knowledge=POWER!!
And as for your comment on me avoiding the only thing that is important to me at my age…the reason I focus so much on bodybuilding is because It is becoming very important to me…I feel great when I work out and I know that it’s good for me…it’s one of the very few healthy habits I have.

I have a girlfriend, why would I worry about getting laid? [/quote]

First of all I did not post that advice (try to get laid) very often, but the reactions are allways the same. Strange.

I really, really, do believe you take the whole thing serious. But you are very interested (obsessed?) with things that are a little bit down the road.

Why not concentrate on the steps that it takes to actually get to a point where this is somehing to worry about?

And you have a girl friend. Yippeee! So now it?s time for step two, work on quality, not on quantity.

77

How the hell did this crap get 5 stars?

4.1% was that your math percentile?

The lowest race weight I’ve been was around 6% and even at my size I looked a hell of a lot leaner then you do.

And if you really are 4.1% thats nothing to be proud of if you are trying to bulk.

Listen to what the veterans are saying.

78

I really have to comment on this. Kael, I’m sorry, but I don’t think 3200 cals will EVER be considered eating one’s ass off. If you have problems with putting on mass, there’s your reason.

79

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:

As for the eating, my calory intake is 3200 a day with 180-200 grams of protein. I do eat, I eat my ass off to get that much food in with school and work.

I really have to comment on this. Kael, I’m sorry, but I don’t think 3200 cals will EVER be considered eating one’s ass off. If you have problems with putting on mass, there’s your reason.[/quote]

Agreed.

I am in class from 7am to 2pm with only 10 minute breaks in between. I also train before and after that for an hour and hold a job after classes. I still manage to get in 6,000+ p/day.

You’re either serious about finding a way or serious about finding excuses. I choose the one less traveled and that has made all the difference.

I’m at 3,200 before I get out of classes.

80

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
How the hell did this crap get 5 stars?

4.1% was that your math percentile?

The lowest race weight I’ve been was around 6% and even at my size I looked a hell of a lot leaner then you do.

And if you really are 4.1% thats nothing to be proud of if you are trying to bulk.

Listen to what the veterans are saying.[/quote]

4.1% percent math percentile? I think I remember graduating highschool with a 3.8 gpa and at the top 10% of my class. Don’t insult my intelligence, I’m not a dumbass.

As for the BF percentage…I wasn’t so stubborn because I truly thought that I was an amazing 4.1%!!! It is because…and forgive me for trusting my doctor more than some guys on a forum…that’s the number my doctor gave me so i believed it, but not anymore…

And listen to the veterans? Why do you think I posted this in the first place? to argue my 4.1% BF? I have taken everything everyone has said into consideration and have learned alot as far as the pec major/minor goes…special thanks to prof. X and CT for clearing up the chest questions. This will be my last post so again thanks to all for your help! I will continue to strive for my 190 lbs. goal and to soak up the knowledge that this amazing site has to offer!