The Search for Optimal Chest Growth

Training Bodybuilding
1

theres been a lot in articles and posts on this site about how benching does shit for the chest and is a useless exercise, etc. theres also those who say its a waste of time because most people will never learn to do it correctly. further, i think the general attitude here is that thing like flyes are mostly frowned on.

so my question is simply, with attitudes like these, what do most suggest for optimal chest growth? or is it simply just benching, but most people hate what a holy grail benching has become for most people?

2

shit I’d like to know the answer to this question too.

3

Shut up and bench!

4

This article talks a bit about it:

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/hss100_chest_specialization&cr=

personally, i find using dumbbells hits my chest a lot more effectively than a bar when benching

5

This seems weird to me in some ways. When you bench, do you feel your chest working? If the answer is yes, then bench (duh).

Flat bench I do not do all that much because I do not feel my chest working. Incline BB and any version of DB I do feel in my chest, as well as flies, so that’s what I do. I can’t sit here and say “yes, benching will not build up your chest, so do something else.” If you feel it in your chest the most, my guess would be that it’s working your chest.

6

Wide grip benching ( http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2286373 ) and dumbbells have seemed to hit my chest the most.

The only reason I think people frown upon the bench for chest is because they are not going wide enough to really hit the chest. With flyes, most people probably don’t like them because they might not try as hard on them. Honestly, if you keep your muscle flexed throughout the entire movement and go heavy on every set, then you will feel it in your chest.

Although, I am still training for athletic purposes, so I wouldn’t read to much into my post.

7

I built my chest benching…

8

[quote]zraw wrote:
I built my chest benching…[/quote]

based on this post and PF’s i wanna say im not saying i dont think the bench press doesnt build a chest at all. im simply bringing up this debate because no one who shits on benching and iso moves like flyes seem to offer any real concrete alternatives. PERSONALLY i prefer dumbells 100%, but overall i would like to push chest growth to the next level so im just seeing what anyone has to contribute.

9

I believe the answer is different for every person. People should try everthing and go by trial and error. If you are a beginner, then going by a general program is good, but as you get more experienced you have to try things and find out what works for you the best.

10

[quote]hockeylifter7 wrote:
I believe the answer is different for every person. People should try everthing and go by trial and error. If you are a beginner, then going by a general program is good, but as you get more experienced you have to try things and find out what works for you the best. [/quote]

i wouldnt call myself terribly experienced (lifting for about a year) but i feel like ive gone through enough of a transformation(between 130 and 135 to current 170) and my muscles have grown enough where i can tell what works. the other thing is that i can tell which muscles are stubborn. the only thing is im also curious as to what peoples opinion sare about “stubborn muscles”. do they exist or are they just not being hit right?

11

I think the bench press works just fine to build the chest in most people. All this “the triceps are what really press the bar” has probably come from Westside’s influence in the general strength training community which, while it’s true for triple-ply geared lifters, it’s not true for someone who trains in a t-shirt. The problem is, the powerlifters never actually come out and say this in their articles. Not that they’re trying to deceive people, they probably just assume that people will know they are referring to a powerlifting bench press, but not everybody does.

Think about it. Humeral adduction is a major action in the bench press. This can be accomplished by the pectorals, the deltoid, or both. Why would your body mysteriously decide not to use the far larger pectoral muscles in favor of the relatively tiny anterior deltoid?

12

I agree with some of the other guys stated above. It depends on the person. For me, my best chest builder has been dips with a wide grip and leaning forward. I can’t feel my chest working on flat bb bench unless I take a super wide grip and use pretty bitch weight. Incline bench and flyes are also very good for my chest. My gym only has db’s that go up to 80, so I can’t use them for benching unless I want to work on endurance, which isn’t my goal at the moment.

13

I too have suffered from “flat chest syndrome”. It’s always been a primary focus of mine and I’ve found certain things that you have to do, and certain don’ts. Although my chest isn’t huge (I haven’t taken a recent and decent chest pic either), it definitely responded to what I’m about to say:

The problem with Bench Press with a barbell is that many people are more concerned about how much they can lift as apposed to perfect form.

If most BBs actually did the barbell bench press with proper BB form, they’d have to reduce the weight by 45lbs+. Not good for egos…

When I say perfect form, there is a difference between BODYBUILDING form, and powerlifting form. When you are aiming for size with the barbell bench press you need to make sure that your elbows aren’t tucked in, but rather that they are pointed out (thus taking your triceps out of the movement more). Also, you have to make sure that your back always stays flat on the bench. If you are lifting your back off it and flaring up your lats etc, you are taking the load off the chest. Someone seeking strength gains in the barbell bench press can easily make leaps in strength by practically putting their whole upper body into the movement…but this is not good for making the chest grow. Just because you lifted more weight doesn’t mean that your chest did much more work.

Another problem with benching is the rep range. Many people stick to just one range (usually the same range that they use for other muscle groups)…but you need to vary it from pretty high reps, to lower reps. The lowest rep range I’d ever go with on the barbell bench press is 6. Highest is 15. The chest is one of those muscle groups that you really need to feel the burn/pump in to see decent results (which means either high rep sets, or high set exercises).

The reason why I say vary the range is because some assistant muscle groups fail before the target muscle fails on some rep ranges, but not others. Take deadlift for example, some people’s grip fails before they can reach 8 reps (the grip doesn’t have as much endurance as the back). Therefore, some people stick to really low reps (e.g. 3-5) which means that the back fails at roughly the same time as the grip. The same sometimes applies to the chest, some assistant muscle groups fail before the chest does. Here you can also utilize pre fatigue exercises. You could tire out the chest muscle before you do the bench press so that the chest muscle is the one that definitely fails first. Or you could do post fatigue exercises.

One other neglected chest exercise is the decline bench press. This is a great exercise for targeting the lower chest (provided you focus on it). If I were to pick the best two exercises for overall chest development it would be Decline and Incline pressing.

When a muscle seems to be lagging behind, give it more volume by training it more frequently.

Obviously bear in mind too, that you really need to be bulking (taking in a very decent amount of calories) to begin to see a difference in size in any muscle - especially the chest. If your bodyweight isn’t going up, then it’s no use crying that your chest size isn’t either.

14

[quote]pretz wrote:
This article talks a bit about it:

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/hss100_chest_specialization&cr=

personally, i find using dumbbells hits my chest a lot more effectively than a bar when benching[/quote]

I also feel benching with bar useless at my stage. Using db allows me to direct the hit on chest on different angles. I just use bar to test myself and all my arm-shoulder-chest chain.

but I have seen my most gains on chest by using:
Warm up on bar
DB Bench press
DB incline bench press
DB flies
3x PeckDeck / Cable flies (3 angles)
Next day, chest is demolished. and I am pretty sure it is growing.

15

I started with barbell bench and I am glad I did. I then saw the most growth with dumbbells after that. I now use mostly HS machines, but that is because I don’t have anyone strong enough to actually spot me if I ran into trouble and I can work on going closer to failure.

Also, I wouldn’t take advice from anyone about chest training unless they had a chest at least 50" or bigger…but that’s just me.

16

Dips are essential.

17

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t take advice from anyone about chest training unless they had a chest at least 50" or bigger…but that’s just me. [/quote]

To clarify; it’s better to listen to someone who’s made the most PROGRESS…size doesn’t matter - total gains do. If someone started with 48" chest and progressed up to 50" (not impressive), you would be stupid to listen to that person as the “authoritive of chest building” just because they had a 50" chest.

18

[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
I think the bench press works just fine to build the chest in most people. All this “the triceps are what really press the bar” has probably come from Westside’s influence in the general strength training community which, while it’s true for triple-ply geared lifters, it’s not true for someone who trains in a t-shirt. The problem is, the powerlifters never actually come out and say this in their articles. Not that they’re trying to deceive people, they probably just assume that people will know they are referring to a powerlifting bench press, but not everybody does.

Think about it. Humeral adduction is a major action in the bench press. This can be accomplished by the pectorals, the deltoid, or both. Why would your body mysteriously decide not to use the far larger pectoral muscles in favor of the relatively tiny anterior deltoid?[/quote]

Its probably a matter of not being able to contract your pectorals optimally. I could not feel a stretch or contraction from the barbell bench, no matter how wide or narrow the grip, or how long I let the bar sit on my chest, or how slow I lowered it. When I first started training, I was introduced to DB’s for chest training. That was all it took. I could get the greater range of motion at the bottom and actually felt my chest doing the work.

I lost that feeling as I pressed the weight, so I learned to eliminate the top range of motion . The holy grail for me came when I invested in a cambered bar. They apparently are discontinued by many suppliers and my gym did not have one. That is all I needed to continue growing. There is no hassle of lifting heavy dbs up for incline presses or worrying about balancing. With the increased range of motion, that and dips, which also work were all I needed to build up a thicker chest. I think I am at ~54", but I have not measured in a while.

19

[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t take advice from anyone about chest training unless they had a chest at least 50" or bigger…but that’s just me.

To clarify; it’s better to listen to someone who’s made the most PROGRESS…size doesn’t matter - total gains do. If someone started with 48" chest and progressed up to 50" (not impressive), you would be stupid to listen to that person as the “authoritive of chest building” just because they had a 50" chest.
[/quote]

So what you’re saying is that you’d listen to someone who’s made 10% gains, rather than someone who’s made 4% gain? Correct?

In perspective - you’d listen to a bloke who went form 38" to 42" instead of listening to a bloke who turned 48" into 50" (4%)…

No thanks, I’ll be listening to the bigger fella because that 4% would’ve been harder to get than the 10% on the skinny fella.

I hope I haven’t misunderstood your comments (clarifying Prof X?) but I disagree.

20

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Also, I wouldn’t take advice from anyone about chest training unless they had a chest at least 50" or bigger…but that’s just me. [/quote]

I wouldn’t either, but I thought I should just say something and provide even a little to read.