Self-Confidence And...

Off Topic
21

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Objective goals for improving success with women would be :

“I will talk to x number of women today”

“I will talk to x number of women this week”

“I will ask x number of women this week for their phone #”

To OP, if you’re not having success with women, just remember 2 things:

-Its a numbers game (the more women you hit on the more success you’ll have)

AND

-Its all about confidence OR phrased differently, its all about “I don’t give a shit”. Not giving a shit is usually a sign of confidence, which is what TC was getting at in his article.
[/quote]

This is just about the most depressing procedure I can imagine, and it absolutely must have been invented by attractive men whose only obstacle was actually meeting women.

It is NOT a “numbers game.” If you do the stupid thing over and over again, it doesn’t suddenly become smart by repitition. It may become streamlined stupidity, but not smart.

And I am always amazed that so many people latch on to the concept of “confidence,” and then advocate systems that are almost guaranteed to result in the loss of it; will approaching woman after woman, over and over again, improve confidence? Only if some of them say yes.

I’m not just speculating from my armchair on this, ftr. One summer I worked on a college campus, and basically made it my mission to meet 10 girls or more per day. Did I get some numbers? Sure… most of them were either fake, or they never answered the phone when I called. Did I get a date? No. Did that phenomenal waste of time improve my confidence, social ability, or abilities with women? No. The first week, it’s pretty easy to not care, and to think “oh, it’s a numbers game, so who cares about this chick.” By the end of the month, it’s pretty obvious that there’s something wrong with you.

22

I think I am a pretty nice guy and people have told me before the best thing about me/biggest down fall is my big heart… Anyway, someone once told me the way to get through things is having the following mind set: “Fuck me? Fuck Me? Fuck YOU! I will crush you!!!” Playing rugby, doing lot of dead lifts, and generally living the life of the warrior king once in while helps too.

23

By the end of the month, it’s pretty obvious that there’s something wrong with you.[/quote]

Bingo.That’s your problem. You probably have (had I hope) issues of the self-esteem variety. There’s nothing wrong with you Nephorm. Maybe you just need to tweak your approaches or closes or phone game or…

From previous posts I know you’ve used and read material from the pua community. You prob realize by now a lot of it is BS and some of it is helpful.

But its really only helpful after you’ve built a foundation. If you think there’s something wrong with you, your first priority should be getting your head straight, not your dick wet.

Dress better, get in better shape, work on your confidence, hang out with guys who are good with women and actively work on not giving a shit.

That’ll get you more results than reading some of the bs out there.

24

did you start boxing, wrestling or bjj yet???

25

It sounds like he had come to this conclusion AFTER approaching all those women for a month or so. Which means during the approaches he did NOT have this mindset yet.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
By the end of the month, it’s pretty obvious that there’s something wrong with you.

Bingo.That’s your problem. You probably have (had I hope) issues of the self-esteem variety. [/quote]

26

I dunno. I’m seeing manly movies where it’s mostly just grunting and blowing shit up. That’s all well and good, but I think a man should -think- too. You sound like a thinking kind of guy… go for a thinking kind of archetype.

Now, we could go for the thinker that also grunts and blows shit up, in which case I’d say Eastwood’s “Unforgiven” is about as good as it gets.

But if we’re talking the manliest man Hollywood’s yet produced, I’d say Atticus Finch in “to Kill a Mockingbird.” The man does. NOT. flinch.

It’s possible to be quiet, self-possessed, polite, and have a spine made of steel. Focus on your strengths and what value you bring to the world. Examine these things critically and find the weakness in them… then make it stronger. Follow a similar process with your weaknesses.

Worried about how to deal with women? Treat them like you would anyone else. You’ll do ten times better when you realize they’re just people, not mysterious, unfathomable beings. When you run across a woman who uses her gender as an excuse for dysfunctional behaviour, know that it’s bullshit and walk.

If you’re trying to make yourself into a genuine person who builds on his strengths, why should you put up with someone who is interested in neither of these things?

Good luck. Don’t let the world shake you too much.

27

Stephen Covey “The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People”

Tony Robbins “Awaken the Giant Within”

neuro-linguistic programming

28

Fight Club

Batman Begins

Neil Strauss, The Game

29

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
She turned me down? I don’t give a shit and I just found out she has no taste in men.
My friend teases me for being shot down? I don’t give a shit.
I went for a dance and she pushed me away? I don’t give a shit.
I called her up and she was acting weird and blew me off? I don’t give a shit.
[/quote]

have you considered plastic surgery?

30

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
It sounds like he had come to this conclusion AFTER approaching all those women for a month or so. Which means during the approaches he did NOT have this mindset yet.[/quote]

Bingo. I actually thought there was something to it at that point.

31
  1. Learn and read everything here
  2. Brazilian Jujitsu

Your welcome

32

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Dress better, get in better shape, work on your confidence, hang out with guys who are good with women and actively work on not giving a shit.

That’ll get you more results than reading some of the bs out there. [/quote]

I’m not interested in making this my career. I’m getting in better shape, but that really isn’t going to make a difference. Unless I somehow got incredibly large (which I don’t have the dedication or probably the genes to do), no one knows how “in shape” I am in clothes.

I’m working many, many hours per week and looking at taking on another part-time job… I really just don’t have the time to put so much thought and energy into this as people seem to think it takes, nor do I have the extra cash. I do appreciate the spirit in which you give your advice.

33

[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
She turned me down? I don’t give a shit and I just found out she has no taste in men.
My friend teases me for being shot down? I don’t give a shit.
I went for a dance and she pushed me away? I don’t give a shit.
I called her up and she was acting weird and blew me off? I don’t give a shit.

have you considered plastic surgery?[/quote]

Um, ok… I used typical scenarios in which guys sometimes find themselves in.
This leads to plastic surgery how?

Oh its a joke I get it. Cocky funny~!
Haha

And for the record, I’m quite handsome :wink:

34

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Dress better, get in better shape, work on your confidence, hang out with guys who are good with women and actively work on not giving a shit.

That’ll get you more results than reading some of the bs out there.

I’m not interested in making this my career. I’m getting in better shape, but that really isn’t going to make a difference. Unless I somehow got incredibly large (which I don’t have the dedication or probably the genes to do), no one knows how “in shape” I am in clothes.

I’m working many, many hours per week and looking at taking on another part-time job… I really just don’t have the time to put so much thought and energy into this as people seem to think it takes, nor do I have the extra cash. I do appreciate the spirit in which you give your advice.[/quote]

Nephorm, you seem like a good person who’s trying to improve themselves. You simply have a lot of limiting beliefs and negative self-talk. I count 6 LBs alone in your last post.

This isn’t something that can be addressed online in a forum, this is something that you need to work on alone, with a mentor or shrink or friends or all of the above.

I’ll give you an example of how LBs can hold you back by telling you about a friend of mine. He has more limiting beliefs than Fort Knox has gold, and he’s pretty ugly too.
He spends a lot of money on PUA seminars (he’s been to all of them multiple times except David D) and is constantly reading and applying material. He is also online a lot, both on dating sites as well as in pua forums. Does he get laid? Yes, once in a while. He’s even had a few fwbs. Are the girls attractive? Hell no!

I respect him for the time, money and effort he puts into getting better with women. But he can do much better. What holds him back? The fact that he has some of the stupidest limiting beliefs you’ll ever see. He’s also an amazingly negative person which is 1 reason I try not too hang out with him too much.

Anyway, as I said, he’s ugly. However, he’s about 5’11 and in good shape. He only needs to do a few things to imporve his looks immensely. Get a tan (he’s very pale). Get an earring. Buy some nice clothes.

He’ll say “but jewelry is expensive. And if I have to redo my wardrobe, that’s big bucks. I’ll have to drop at least 2 gs. And and and…”

All of the above are bs. You can buy a decent earring for 10-15 bucks. You can go to TJ Maxx, Century 21, Marshalls whatever, any discount clothing chain, and pick up trendy designer clothes at big discounts. Hell, Old Navy imitates all the trendy jeans and sells them for under $30. For Friday and Saturday nights you only need 2 shirts really, 1 pair of jeans and a pair of nice shoes.

I belong to Costco and have told him to come with me 1 day, he could buy 3 Kenneth Cole or Calvin Klein slacks and 5 Cole, Klein or Perry Ellis shirts for $150 tops. He could redo his entire work wardrobe for nothing. He’s a programmer and makes 75k/year btw.

But he refuses. Why? Limiting beliefs. He won’t even go into a drug store and buy an $8 bottle of insta-tan!

If only he worked on those limiting beliefs he’d do better. Instead he goes dressed around like a pale dork and wears filthy old hiking boots 24/7.

Can you picture that? The same nasty hiking boots to work. To NYC clubs. To NYC lounges. On dates.

Lord knows I’ve tried to give advice, as have others. But he can’t get past his LBs.

Anyway, I hope you get what I’m saying.

35

Thanks a lot for the great replies everyone, lots of great stuff. I especially liked that article by TC, sounds just like me.

Its just hard to know what to do, y’know? When is too confident being an asshole? At what point in standing up for myself am I trying to be a “thug”? How do I be respectful and nice to girls without giving a shit about them? When is being nice and sincere “too nice”? Im not asking you to answer these, just pointing out how its tough to know when its getting to extreme. Its safe to say im quite confused at this point in my life =P.

anyways, again, thanks to anyone whose commented so far, I appreciate it.

36

When is too confident being an asshole? At what point in standing up for myself am I trying to be a “thug”?

  • A thug is a bully, a low life, a scumbag. Someone who starts trouble. It has nothing to do with standing up for yourself.

How do I be respectful and nice to girls without giving a shit about them?

-Don’t give a shit about what they THINK of you. It does not mean to be disrespectful and not care about them as people, it means don’t let what women think of you affect your self-esteem. If a girl turns you down, so what? Don’t let her rejection of you make you get down on yourself. After all, you’re not interested in every girl, so its logical that not every girl is going to be interested in you.

When is being nice and sincere “too nice”? Im not asking you to answer these, just pointing out how its tough to know when its getting to extreme. Its safe to say im quite confused at this point in my life =P.

anyways, again, thanks to anyone whose commented so far, I appreciate it.[/quote]

BTW, I also agree with whoever that its a good idea to start listening to Tracy, Robbins etc and pick up a self-help book or 2.

37

[quote]Valar Morghulis wrote:
Thanks a lot for the great replies everyone, lots of great stuff. I especially liked that article by TC, sounds just like me.

Its just hard to know what to do, y’know? When is too confident being an asshole? At what point in standing up for myself am I trying to be a “thug”? How do I be respectful and nice to girls without giving a shit about them? When is being nice and sincere “too nice”? Im not asking you to answer these, just pointing out how its tough to know when its getting to extreme. Its safe to say im quite confused at this point in my life =P.

anyways, again, thanks to anyone whose commented so far, I appreciate it.[/quote]

Don’t worry so much about going over the line. Chances are you’ll have the common sense not to spit in anyones eye. Just try it and you’ll get a feeling for it. Sadly, the only way to find out is real life experience. I went through and am still going through the same problem as you myself. Sometimes people are put off when I speak my mind, but I’ve heard the same people say later on that they appreciate my lack of BS and how they can trust me to be honest. If you say something that crosses the line, have a sense of humour about it.

It’s not that you shouldnt give a shit about women, just dont give a shit if things dont work out. This very day I ended things with my girlfriend. I admit it hurt alot, but you know what? I’m better off for it. You’ll come to find that if you do things you dont want to do, down the road you’ll look back and realize you did the right thing.

I’m going to join the local MMA club, or boxing club and I hope you’ll do the same. If you want to visually look more confident, try shaving your head. I was amazed at the different way people approached me (and didnt).

Read Fight Club. Read some books by Henry Rollins. And GOOD LUCK!

38

To the OP…there’s some good advice so far and some bad advice as well. I’m not sure which category this falls into, but I can personally guarantee that joining the Marine Corps will solve this problem.

39

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Nephorm, you seem like a good person who’s trying to improve themselves. You simply have a lot of limiting beliefs and negative self-talk. I count 6 LBs alone in your last post.
[/quote]

Let’s talk about “limiting beliefs” for a minute, because I have heard this thrown around in the NLP and pick-up circles for years. The original idea about a limiting belief was based around the old story of a coach who surreptitiously added a little extra weight to his trainee’s lifts. This allowed the trainee to push beyond what was then thought to be the limit of human strength, and after people found this out, records were broken right and left. Moral: if we believe we have a limit to our abilities, we will subconsciously impose it on ourselves.

Well, this sounds fine and dandy, right? But here’s the problem: you can call anything a ‘limiting belief.’ "I can’t squat 2000lbs - " Pshaw! Limiting belief! "I can’t lose 100lbs in a week - " Pshaw! Limiting belief! "I can’t jump out of the window and fly - " You get the point. We already have a word that really explains the important part of what “limiting beliefs” truly are - ‘excuse.’ If I really could do something, but I don’t want to put forth the effort, so I want to name a reason, that’s an excuse. The concept of “limiting beliefs” allows those in the self-help culture to pretty much ignore reality, and even to sell defective products. After all, if you’re not having success, that’s just a limiting belief! This pop-psychology suffers one of the same drawbacks as Freudian psychology; they construct themselves so as to be unfalsifiable.

If the self-help people were to use the term “excuse,” they’d have much less latitude - after all, most people have a pretty good idea what an excuse is or isn’t. Some reasons are good, some are bad, and most people know enough to understand the difference, especially if the excuse is exposed as such through rational argument. But “limiting beliefs” avoid that hurdle by linking result to belief, and not to reality. That’s not to say that what people call “limiting beliefs” aren’t, in reality, excuses of one form or another, or even wrong thinking. But it requires much less intellectual effort to explain away the LB than it does to understand and address an excuse.

I’m not attacking you, Sonny; I think your heart is in the right place. But I’ve gone through all this stuff before, and I’m just not up for going through the nonsense even more. I’ve known some guys who were “PUAs-in-training.” To be honest, most of them did eventually pull more ass, but the quality didn’t change. What changed was that they were so convinced that they were becoming “better and better” that the most average girl started to seem hot, so they could justify their beliefs. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, but it clearly isn’t the promise of the self-help market. And all these “techniques” really ended up just being about going out, every single night, and hitting on 10, 20, or 30 girls in a couple of hours, and then following up to see what stuck. Perhaps that’s fun for you… I’m glad, if it is. But I could take the same amount of time those guys spend in clubs, and work at my hourly rate… and afford a decent looking prostitute once or twice a week.

40

[quote]nephorm wrote:

I’ve known some guys who were “PUAs-in-training.” To be honest, most of them did eventually pull more ass, but the quality didn’t change. What changed was that they were so convinced that they were becoming “better and better” that the most average girl started to seem hot, so they could justify their beliefs. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, but it clearly isn’t the promise of the self-help market.
[/quote]

Now this thing, I have noticed with a lot of guys too. Many get way too arrogant from a little succes, and they usually either get very mean to women, and believe they are the man himself, and no one else can touch them, and of course, the women who don’t respond are just stuck-up bitches.

They’re just arrogant, and sometimes need to be put in their place.

In some way, they hate women for what they’ve been doing to their self-image all these years, and the moment they find they have somewhat of power over women, they try to break them down.
Of course, this will lead to women being turned off(the ones with a brain), or getting stalked by some needy chick.

I did the same thing for some time, but it really isn’t healthy, and you actually get lonely(even though you have women chasing you). Somehow you know it all ain’t real, and it makes you yearn for something real.

Also very common with these guys : rebounding from one emotional state into another. They’re bastards for months and when they meet a “decent girl”, they go to the other extreme. Which of course, also backfires.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

And all these “techniques” really ended up just being about going out, every single night, and hitting on 10, 20, or 30 girls in a couple of hours, and then following up to see what stuck. Perhaps that’s fun for you… I’m glad, if it is. But I could take the same amount of time those guys spend in clubs, and work at my hourly rate… and afford a decent looking prostitute once or twice a week. [/quote]

I know what you mean man. I don’t know if you know it, but there’s a dating program out there which actually involves going up to women, and trying to talk to them for HOURS, and even if they’re cold, you go up to them after a while with some other(or even the same)line. They pretty much tell you what to say and when to say it.

To me, that would be pure hell, and I would NOT feel good about it.

You’d look like an ass, talk like someone you’re not(even if you “Assimilate” it and get “Greased”, as they put so nicely), and my pride isn’t worth making a fool of myself for an entire evening, ad nauseum.

They even have a story you come up with every time(these stories also have names - such as the “Poll-Opener”, and the “Floss - Opener”)(that last one involves asking if you should floss before or after you eat. I mean really.)

What I do(this might be somewhat different from what some dating programs describe), is I’m friendly to everyone in the room, I smile and talk for a few minutes, make a joke, and I move on to the next group.
This is simply being a friendly person. I give my phone number after talking a while, and they can give me a call if they like. Whether they do or do not, doesn’t really matter to me.
I don’t use “techniques”, just friendly conversation. Less is more.

But I see where you’re coming from.
You remind me of my best friend. He doesn’t have the energy or natural spontanity I have, so I just started taking him along and introducing him to people. After a while, he knew some folks, and was able to go up to them when he saw them at another occasion, and meet the people they brought.

It’s funny, but even though all these dating programs claim to teach you to be a rock star with women, they never say you need to get social first, like, being actually able to talk to women and people in general.