Scapula Issue with Benching

Quick foreword, 1.5 years ago I maxed bench around 285x5 and 335x1 at 190lbs.around that time i started getting a dull ache in my right shoulder and in the right medial border of my low scapula , like low trap / rhomboid area. slowly this progressed to a feeling of being unable to hold the medial border of my right scapula down and more and more anterior shoulder pain. After fucking around for a while i ditched flat bench press and rehabbed my shoulder

Now 1.5 years later i’ve been able to OHP and incline bench with very little problems, and 6 weeks ago started working back in flat bench press. after hitting a new rep pr of 285x10 at 193lbs, that old familiar feeling of my right scapula medial border pulling away from the ribcage has returned, but no anterior shoulder pain as of yet. does anyone have experience or insight into what my issue might be?

rehab and prehab thus far has been (over the last 1.5 years), pec and pec minor stretching, lat stretching, upper back and rotator cuff strengthening 50+ band pull aparts a day, serratus work, conscious effort to improve posture, prone trap raises and other activation exercises for lower traps rhomboids.

Am i just destined to not be able to flat bench? i really would love to be able to do it, and this new PR definitely lit my fire for the bench again. Please any help is greatly appreciated

here is pic of recentish back, red line point to area of dull ache and feeling where scap lifts up

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:
Quick foreword, 1.5 years ago I maxed bench around 285x5 and 335x1 at 190lbs.around that time i started getting a dull ache in my right shoulder and in the right medial border of my low scapula , like low trap / rhomboid area. slowly this progressed to a feeling of being unable to hold the medial border of my right scapula down and more and more anterior shoulder pain. After fucking around for a while i ditched flat bench press and rehabbed my shoulder

Now 1.5 years later i’ve been able to OHP and incline bench with very little problems, and 6 weeks ago started working back in flat bench press. after hitting a new rep pr of 285x10 at 193lbs, that old familiar feeling of my right scapula medial border pulling away from the ribcage has returned, but no anterior shoulder pain as of yet. does anyone have experience or insight into what my issue might be?

rehab and prehab thus far has been (over the last 1.5 years), pec and pec minor stretching, lat stretching, upper back and rotator cuff strengthening 50+ band pull aparts a day, serratus work, conscious effort to improve posture, prone trap raises and other activation exercises for lower traps rhomboids.

Am i just destined to not be able to flat bench? i really would love to be able to do it, and this new PR definitely lit my fire for the bench again. Please any help is greatly appreciated

here is pic of recentish back, red line point to area of dull ache and feeling where scap lifts up [/quote]

How are you bracing when you lift? Squeezing your core, pushing out, something else? Where do you put your head and neck? Is there actually any scap winging? Do you pack your shoulders and or set your scap? Do you stretch or foam roll?

Do you have any problems with t-spine mobility? Particularly rotation?

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:
Quick foreword, 1.5 years ago I maxed bench around 285x5 and 335x1 at 190lbs.around that time i started getting a dull ache in my right shoulder and in the right medial border of my low scapula , like low trap / rhomboid area. slowly this progressed to a feeling of being unable to hold the medial border of my right scapula down and more and more anterior shoulder pain. After fucking around for a while i ditched flat bench press and rehabbed my shoulder

Now 1.5 years later i’ve been able to OHP and incline bench with very little problems, and 6 weeks ago started working back in flat bench press. after hitting a new rep pr of 285x10 at 193lbs, that old familiar feeling of my right scapula medial border pulling away from the ribcage has returned, but no anterior shoulder pain as of yet. does anyone have experience or insight into what my issue might be?

rehab and prehab thus far has been (over the last 1.5 years), pec and pec minor stretching, lat stretching, upper back and rotator cuff strengthening 50+ band pull aparts a day, serratus work, conscious effort to improve posture, prone trap raises and other activation exercises for lower traps rhomboids.

Am i just destined to not be able to flat bench? i really would love to be able to do it, and this new PR definitely lit my fire for the bench again. Please any help is greatly appreciated

here is pic of recentish back, red line point to area of dull ache and feeling where scap lifts up [/quote]

How are you bracing when you lift? Squeezing your core, pushing out, something else? Where do you put your head and neck? Is there actually any scap winging? Do you pack your shoulders and or set your scap? Do you stretch or foam roll?

Do you have any problems with t-spine mobility? Particularly rotation?[/quote]

Ahh yeh I forgot some stuff there. I do a wendler esque bench set up, not too wide a grip, shoulders packed in, traps dug into bench, mild arch, feet driving in, glute squeeze but stays on bench usually. head and neck feel neutral to be, slightly packed chin.
yes there is some winging just at the very bottom medial edge, especially when doing that scratch test ( internal rotation and extension). I teach boxing and box myself for an hour or 2 a week, and the serrattus is the boxing muscle, id figure a weak one would show itself during heavy bag work but I have no problems.

I do have some slightly scoliosis in my upper back and neck, the spine veers left near my mid traps, so I wonder if its a nerve supply issue. I also have some rotational mobility issues in the thoracic, but extension is adequate.

I do stretch my lats, chest , biceps, hamstrings, hip flexors, glutes and traps daily. I foam roll a few times a week, and use a lacrosse ball on the hard to reach spots.

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

… [/quote]

How are you bracing when you lift? Squeezing your core, pushing out, something else? Where do you put your head and neck? Is there actually any scap winging? Do you pack your shoulders and or set your scap? Do you stretch or foam roll?

Do you have any problems with t-spine mobility? Particularly rotation?[/quote]

Ahh yeh I forgot some stuff there. I do a wendler esque bench set up, not too wide a grip, shoulders packed in, traps dug into bench, mild arch, feet driving in, glute squeeze but stays on bench usually. head and neck feel neutral to be, slightly packed chin.
yes there is some winging just at the very bottom medial edge, especially when doing that scratch test ( internal rotation and extension). I teach boxing and box myself for an hour or 2 a week, and the serrattus is the boxing muscle, id figure a weak one would show itself during heavy bag work but I have no problems.

I do have some slightly scoliosis in my upper back and neck, the spine veers left near my mid traps, so I wonder if its a nerve supply issue. I also have some rotational mobility issues in the thoracic, but extension is adequate.

I do stretch my lats, chest , biceps, hamstrings, hip flexors, glutes and traps daily. I foam roll a few times a week, and use a lacrosse ball on the hard to reach spots.
[/quote]

Not too concerned about that winging, its super normal. Have you ever done self massage, or had massage done, on your serratus anterior? It could be in too much tone giving you that pain. Do not roll it with a lacrosse ball though, the nerve is very superficial and the ball can damage it.

As for the scoliosis, spine does a little wiggle around the heart in most people… I wouldnt think its a problem or a concern. Otherwise it seems you have a good flexibility routine.

So here is my insider knowledge/pro tip of the day: t-spine extension isnt your only concern. Everyone in the internet lifting culture will scream about t-spine extension in regards to full shoulder flexion and sure, that is important, but the t-spine is built to rotate. If it isnt rotating, something is up my friend. Based on where you say the pain is, I think you may have a costovertebral problem. How is your right rotation? How about coupled with breathing in first? Can you tell me which movements are restricted in your t-spine out of flexion, extension, sideflexion, and rotation?

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

Not too concerned about that winging, its super normal. Have you ever done self massage, or had massage done, on your serratus anterior? It could be in too much tone giving you that pain. Do not roll it with a lacrosse ball though, the nerve is very superficial and the ball can damage it.

As for the scoliosis, spine does a little wiggle around the heart in most people… I wouldnt think its a problem or a concern. Otherwise it seems you have a good flexibility routine.

So here is my insider knowledge/pro tip of the day: t-spine extension isnt your only concern. Everyone in the internet lifting culture will scream about t-spine extension in regards to full shoulder flexion and sure, that is important, but the t-spine is built to rotate. If it isnt rotating, something is up my friend. Based on where you say the pain is, I think you may have a costovertebral problem. How is your right rotation? How about coupled with breathing in first? Can you tell me which movements are restricted in your t-spine out of flexion, extension, sideflexion, and rotation?[/quote]

I nearly pass the back to wall shoulder flexion test Eric Cressey preforms , my left arm cannot reach the wall, but my right can just barely. WHen rotating i feel more restricted when turning towards my left shoulder. for example the thoracic bridge movement, when i have my left hand down i am restricted in my rotation and my mid back feels on the border of muscle cramps when I really push it. I have a good level of flexion, side flexion feels fine.

right shoulder is lower than left, and my right leg is anatomically shorter, about 4-5mm

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

I nearly pass the back to wall shoulder flexion test Eric Cressey preforms , my left arm cannot reach the wall, but my right can just barely. WHen rotating i feel more restricted when turning towards my left shoulder. for example the thoracic bridge movement, when i have my left hand down i am restricted in my rotation and my mid back feels on the border of muscle cramps when I really push it. I have a good level of flexion, side flexion feels fine.

right shoulder is lower than left, and my right leg is anatomically shorter, about 4-5mm
[/quote]

Dominant side shoulder being lower is normal, to an extent. Can you turn to the left more if you breathe deeply then hold it then rotate? What about if you completely exhale then rotate? Or does either make it worse?

What you need, I think, is someone who can preform a joint manipulation at your costovertebral joint or can do a spiral stretch. Im not gonna lie though, this is advanced stuff and I wonder if CroatianRage knows better than I do.

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

I nearly pass the back to wall shoulder flexion test Eric Cressey preforms , my left arm cannot reach the wall, but my right can just barely. WHen rotating i feel more restricted when turning towards my left shoulder. for example the thoracic bridge movement, when i have my left hand down i am restricted in my rotation and my mid back feels on the border of muscle cramps when I really push it. I have a good level of flexion, side flexion feels fine.

right shoulder is lower than left, and my right leg is anatomically shorter, about 4-5mm
[/quote]

Dominant side shoulder being lower is normal, to an extent. Can you turn to the left more if you breathe deeply then hold it then rotate? What about if you completely exhale then rotate? Or does either make it worse?

What you need, I think, is someone who can preform a joint manipulation at your costovertebral joint or can do a spiral stretch. Im not gonna lie though, this is advanced stuff and I wonder if CroatianRage knows better than I do.[/quote]

i feel i can stretch further by breathing out when rotating left. When I was getting chiro adjustments, they frequently spent time in that area trying to create rotation or adjust a rib, they didn’t get too much out of it usually.

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

i feel i can stretch further by breathing out when rotating left. When I was getting chiro adjustments, they frequently spent time in that area trying to create rotation or adjust a rib, they didn’t get too much out of it usually. [/quote]

Okay, my theory is holding up! With left rotation at the costovertebral joint, the left rib glides superior and rolls anterior while the right rib glides inferior and rolls posterior. With inhalation, (lower)ribs glide inferior and roll posterior and exhalation causes superior glide and anterior roll.

Your problem is the right side with left rotation, coupled with exhalation you achieved more rotation. If the rib is fixated inferior-posterior then the exhalation promotes a superior-anterior glide freeing up space to continue inferior-posterior. This means we need to move the rib superior-anterior to the neutral zone where it can glide and roll freely. Try right rotation with breathing out, do you get a pinching or tight feeling? If so, Im willing to put money on my internet assessment!

The chiro was right to try to adjust there, but maybe wasnt paying enough attention! Rib fixations are typically s-a, not i-p, adjusting i-p would only jam up the joint further.

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

Okay, my theory is holding up! With left rotation at the costovertebral joint, the left rib glides superior and rolls anterior while the right rib glides inferior and rolls posterior. With inhalation, (lower)ribs glide inferior and roll posterior and exhalation causes superior glide and anterior roll.

Your problem is the right side with left rotation, coupled with exhalation you achieved more rotation. If the rib is fixated inferior-posterior then the exhalation promotes a superior-anterior glide freeing up space to continue inferior-posterior. This means we need to move the rib superior-anterior to the neutral zone where it can glide and roll freely. Try right rotation with breathing out, do you get a pinching or tight feeling? If so, Im willing to put money on my internet assessment!

The chiro was right to try to adjust there, but maybe wasnt paying enough attention! Rib fixations are typically s-a, not i-p, adjusting i-p would only jam up the joint further. [/quote]

when i rotate right and exhale completely, I get a similar sensation like there is a gap between my scapula and the rib cage and a slight achey feeling, in the same area I described my pain, lower corner of medial scap.

[quote]EllisUFC wrote:

[quote]dzmendon wrote:

Okay, my theory is holding up! With left rotation at the costovertebral joint, the left rib glides superior and rolls anterior while the right rib glides inferior and rolls posterior. With inhalation, (lower)ribs glide inferior and roll posterior and exhalation causes superior glide and anterior roll.

Your problem is the right side with left rotation, coupled with exhalation you achieved more rotation. If the rib is fixated inferior-posterior then the exhalation promotes a superior-anterior glide freeing up space to continue inferior-posterior. This means we need to move the rib superior-anterior to the neutral zone where it can glide and roll freely. Try right rotation with breathing out, do you get a pinching or tight feeling? If so, Im willing to put money on my internet assessment!

The chiro was right to try to adjust there, but maybe wasnt paying enough attention! Rib fixations are typically s-a, not i-p, adjusting i-p would only jam up the joint further. [/quote]

when i rotate right and exhale completely, I get a similar sensation like there is a gap between my scapula and the rib cage and a slight achey feeling, in the same area I described my pain, lower corner of medial scap.

[/quote]

I cannot recommend you or prescribe you to do an at home adjustment… but stretching your t-spine by rotating right, breathing out completely, holding it for 5-10 seconds, breathing normally and trying to ease further into the stretch should free up some range for you and help the (suspected) costovertebral block. Otherwise, I would say pony up and see a PT or chiro and explain the what youve found, you shouldnt need more than one or two sessions, just need the adjustment then a little proprio to utilize the new range.

Youtube “Bretzel” and you’ll find a video of Gray Cook teaching the movement. Good stuff for Tspine rotation, it will give you a lot of feedback on where your tight spots are. I do A-P thoracic adjustments where the patient is on their back. I find it works a lot better for bigger guys like you.

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
Youtube “Bretzel” and you’ll find a video of Gray Cook teaching the movement. Good stuff for Tspine rotation, it will give you a lot of feedback on where your tight spots are. I do A-P thoracic adjustments where the patient is on their back. I find it works a lot better for bigger guys like you.[/quote]

tried out the Brettzel, got a loud clunk from near my SI joint, and a decent stretch thru my T spine, thanks. I’ll keep working on it, hopefully switching back to incline bench for the time being will keep my strength up and avoid the shoulder woes