OK, ND. You and I sound like we are in the same boat. I am 5’7" 155 at 10-11% bf. You mentioned that you have been following this same diet for several months. Maybe it’s time to alter you diet a bit–you don’t follow the same lifting program for months, right?
I’m not sure of any of the science behind this, but it tends to work well for me–switch up the diet every 6 weeks or so. Right now I am doing the T-Dawg Diet, except that I am taking in around 120 grams of carbs per day (from Grow!). This is OK for me, since I can handle the carbs pretty well.
Since I have changed my diet two weeks ago, my strength has kept going up, while I dropped 5lbs. I’m also using Methoxy-7 and MD6 and Surge post-workout.
I think it’s time to change your diet. Cut back on some of the carbs…and throw some eggs in there for God’s sakes!
Nemo, I did have eggs and tuna in my diet. But after two months of that, I had to take them out. It got to the point where I just couldn’t do it anymore. So I replaced the tuna with the cottage cheese. As for changing my diet, I am not sure what to do. Cut calories? Cut carbs? Take out some of the dairy products (milk, cottage cheese, yogurt)? I don’t believe in the no carb, very low carb diets. I’ve done it once, and just couldn’t handle it. I prefer to get my carbs from fruits and vegetables so that I get the vitamins, minerals and fiber.
Dre, you think I should just do more cardio? Should I keep my calories consistent? I know it's possible to keep/gain strength while staying lean. Besides, sprinters and other athletes stay lean and very strong. So I can do it too! But I'm thinking I may need to do plenty of running to stay lean. I'd rather do short runs or sprints rather than distance running. If I'm mountain biking on Tues and Thurs for two hours, should I just add the cardio after my weight workouts? I need some suggestions guys! I don't want to starve myself or lose strength. As I'm making steady progress on my lifts.
As for the deadlifts, I may not always be able to increase my strength each week, but every few weeks it should be possible, even with weekly squat sessions. And I’ll post my weights for Wednesday’s workout so you’ll know where I’m at. I have decided to go to three caps of T2 and MD6 each day. We’ll see if that helps. I’m also trying to figure out what else I can do to clean up my eating. Or should it just be more cardio??? Help, help! Hey Whopper, you gotta remember that I’m only 5’4" with a short torso. So when I gain fat, I look blocky in the chest/stomach area. And It just doesn’t look good. Especially the extra fat around my waist and chest. I can’t see my abs at all, and I can grab a large handful of fat on my lower abs and chest. Hey, I gained 10 pounds, so that’s good. But I need to get rid of the fat! It looks horrible! I’m embarrassed to take my shirt off, and with the warm weather, I enjoy being outside with my shirt off getting some sun! And I don’t want to look like a rollie pollie!
Nate…on a serious note, I feel your pain, just am racking my brain on how to help ya. I am very lucky with my martial arts…the classes are offered 6 days a week, and I usually go 3 days. If the bodyfat starts picking up too much, I just throw in a few more classes until it starts to fade again…they are the only thing that helps me…because I don’t control the pace. When you start to get fat, you get down, and you don’t have the same fire…and you don’t put as much into it…it becomes a vicious cycle. With my martial arts…it doesnt matter how I feel…he works my ass into the ground…and I always leave feeling great (sometimes having to crawl…lol…but great) Perhaps you can look into something like that…it is perhaps $40 to $70 a month…but worth every damn dime to me!! Right now I hear the frustration creeping into your voice…and that aint good!!
Whopper, yes the frusturation is setting in. I’m working my ass off, and not making any changes in body composition (fat loss). Okay, I just calculated my meals for today. This is fairly accurate and won’t change unless I do something different for dinner than what I have planned. I’ve calculated my total calories for today to be 2,570 (possibly 100 cals higher depending on certain foods for dinner). This will amount to 238 grams of protein, 337 grams of carbs and 33.5 grams of fat. This is about 300-500 fewer calories than I have been eating to gain weight, and also a lower fat intake. The times I’ve been really lean, I ate more of a low-fat diet and it seemed to work for me. So maybe I need to do that more often. According to Massive Eating, if I want to gain more weight, I need a bit over 3,000 calories. And according to JB’s article about losing (Appetite for Construction), I should be eating about 2,400 calories. So I’m right around that amount now. And my training is listed above. So any suggestions? More cardio?
Haha, I’m a scrawny bastard too guys! 165lbs @ 5’9" and like 11% bf age 17. Although I used to be 135 a year ago and I did it naturally. I still don’t look nearly as good as i want too. Anyway, my tricks are to go to the grocery store and by 14 cans of tuna a week and eat two cans a day. Plus alot of Whole milk, fruits vegies and of course MEAT. I just stick to the basic compound lifts and when i get tired of those after a few sets, move on to isolation.
OK Whopper, I, as I don’t want to be grilled here, am going to increase my calories to about 4000 and protien to 300 grams perday. No need to threaten me, If i am not 175 - 180 lbs by the end of the summer I will kill MYSELF…haha.
Hey Nate Dogg…
I have just the solution for you. No need for you to cut calories at all, simply lower your carbs down to 20%. So 50% protein, 30% fat, 20% carbs…at 3000 calories this would give you a daily carb total of 150 grams… I’ve been following these recommendations for a couple of weeks now eating a caloric surplus and I’ve gained 3 lbs and lost 1/2 inch off my waist. This is the diet recommended by Dr. Eric Serrano…I wouldn’t follow it all the time but it seems perfect for a guy like you who wants to continue building some strength and muscle but rid yourself of some of the smoothness.
Kelly, thanks for the reccomendation. So you think that will work, huh? I just need to find out what carbs to cut and where. Do you think 150 grams of carbs is enough to get the vitamins, minerals and fiber in fruits and veggies? I’ll have to try this out and do some tweaking! If you have any suggestions on the diet so I can work it in my meal plan, let me know!
Wow, the SB Soap Opera rolls along, with new and exciting stories unfolding and new and exciting characters!
Dre…I haven’t forgot about you, your abs or your serratus, bro. Just have a few things going down that’s limited my access time. I’ll get something posted ASAP on a new thread regarding some descriptions and suggestions. You could probably find a few explanations in T-mag too. I would still like to hear some input regarding your thoughts on training. I remember you saying you made some remarkable gains during your Massive Eating quest, and I was particularly interested in your training split and frequency and also your volume (per bodypart and workout) and TUT and workout time. I’d really appreciate some things along those goodies, Mr. Goodie Mob.
Whopper...yes, *Timboitis* is contagious, but I think I've developed a crude case of *Nate Doggitis* That is, eating like a mofo, loving every second of it and not wanting to think about eating less! Keep that grill warm just to make sure Timboitis doesn't swing back this way! I can hear JB runnin' those macros thru the lab right now. Be careful you don't catch the disease yourself, big dogg! I tell ya, once those abbies and veins and fibers start poppin' outta no where, you'll think twice about grubbin' hard core...just ask my man Dre==>your main dogg's get a suppressed case and he's getting shredded!
Nate Dogg...sounds like my Dogg's in need and really wanting to do something to shed some chub! You can do it, bro, but it's going to require you to cut back on the cals a bit...because you haven't seen results at the level you're at, that only means one thing. You can increase energy out, or decrease energy in. I've got a few suggestions and tips that you might consider and I'll drop a bomb on you later.
BigDog..welcome to the fold, G. You've got the mindset, bro, to be a massive mofo. Keep at it and we'll see you around and look forward to hearing about you getting big!
A bit of bench success - got 1x4 and 5x3 of 220 and am expecting mostly 4s and 5s next week. NATE - Im getting much stronger while losing fat - yesterday I had 4 protein + water shakes (metamucil with breakfast), a protein dextrose mix pw and then 1/4 chicken and 3 boiled potatoes and I still had my best bench session to date. And on sat I got a 300pd dl 90% of the way up when my previous best was 260. I am starting to think a little undereating doesnt effect strength much at all. JMB says cardio will effect strength gains (and I wouldnt dispute his word) but Ive upped cardio and run 7 miles a day for the last 4 days and Im still managing to get stronger. YOU CAN EASILY DO THE MRP/WARRIOR THING. Sorry to say your diet is THE fat boy diet - if you cant go as full on as mine and want to just tweak it you must cut out or at least reduce the skim, OJ, fruit, yogurt and maybe some veggies. This is more or less what Kelly said (I find myself agreeing with her alot - just the right balance of simplicity and science - think Im starting to get a thing for her - 80pd db inlcines mmmm ;). DO IT NATE - make the diet changes and do cardio 30-60 mins every day. I go to sleep a bit hungry (the agony) but wake up happier after a look in the mirror. Id be lucky to be 165 today but I must look 100% better (and younger) than during the last 10 months and still look like a cross between Chris Benoit (head traps and delts) and a mens health guy (pecs, mid). I just had to do it - Ive been busting my ass all week lifting but you wouldnt know because I was always a little puffier than I would like (although still 6pack and 5% tanita) so I think I have earned the right to look fit for a change. Having lived the life of a girly man (ha ha) the diet ends this sunday for another serious get big session. Whopper, this will save you the trouble of having to grill me up…
Whopper - I see the dilemma on getting to 290 and competeing and might have a different approach focused more or proportion than sheer size that could solve both EG (1) some say delts can make a person look 20 pounds heavier - I know some recent delt mass and caps had the greatest effect on my physique - are you doing seated behind neck presses? standing presses? side and rear raises? I do some shock things like straining standing presses with 2 50 pounders on the bar and 40 pound laterals. Tri sets and giant sets might also help overcome sticking points. (2) Are you doing a variety of chins and rows? (3) Are you doing arm specific work? … Just a thought, but I would consider changing exercises for these 2 muscles AND ALSO volume (ie 1-2 working sets 2-3 exercises if currently high volume, up to 4 or 5 working sets 2-3 exercised if low). I want you to win gold first and foremost, and get the look you want second, but Id hate for you to become a sweating, lumbering, nosebleeding mass (unless it meant you getting in the WWF and giving me some chair shots on the hardys).
Big Dog…first off…you got NO right to have that name…I suggest you change it to “puppy on the porch” until you grow a bit…I like your enthusiasm tho…good luck to you! Kelly…I like your suggestion to Nate, switch the diet to a little more keto based. Nate and Dre…just had an AWESOME evening. Hit class, sparred for over an hour, then hit the weights…arm day. Got a JACKIN pump…3/4 of an inch bigger than my arm size (yes I am sad…they were so full–I HAD to measure!) Also did my speed test and I was two full roundhouse kicks better than my max…which is a beautiful thing…speed was great tonight! (FYI…my test is a circuit…I do one minute drills…constant roundhouses against my bag for 60 seconds…see how many I can get…then “cut” kicks…then back kicks all for 60 seconds…record them each week) I am gonna DESTROY whovever goes against me in the Governers Cup…7 weeks to go. Nate bro…seriously…look at the Martial Arts…or anything where YOU don’t control the pace…it helps…trust me, cause when you start feelin down, even the weights don’t interest ya. I know for myself, between that pastor…and this tourny…I am jacked beyond belief…even with everything going on in the personal life (The vixens surgery on Monday, and I was laid off on Friday…it sucks) so Nate…if ya need a good kick in the ass…I am the man…expect NO pity…but I will be there to pick ya up…and keep pushin ya!
FOR TIMBO - 10 POUND GAIN PROGRAM
Timbo, Ive looked at your current split and volume but it would help to know more like 1. how your strength is progressing and 2. your lagging parts and any differences in how you worked them. For now I have devised this new framework on instinct changing split and volume for your review (Im not a push pull man but Ive used it, Nate likes it, Im considering using it for my next bulk, and its a change for you)
D1> Chest and triceps - Flat Bench, Incline Bench, Flyes, lying french press, [optional one other tricep exercise not currently used]
D2> Back and Biceps - deadlifts, chins, bent bb rows, standing bicep curl, seated hammer curl
D3> rest - if fitness is OK minimise/forget cardio for 9 weeks.
D4> Legs - Squats, leg press or extension, leg curl, 2 exercises for calves
D5> shoulders and lagging bodypart - behind the neck militaries, and then 2 of the following exercises depending on priority: standing military (mass), side, rear or front raise (obvious) then 2 sets for lagging bodypart (may need rejigg split to give lagging part a rest).
No forced reps, neg or drops this time. TUT is up to you - I do fast for strength and get quite slow gaining but, like Dorian never timed it.
Favour BB for more weight but consider DB if youve already been on BB on an exercise too long.
PHASE 1> 3 weeks, 5x5 of the 2-3 big/lagging lifts for each day PHASE 2> 3 weeks, 2 working sets of 8-12 for each exercise except main day for lagging bodypart which is 3x6-8 PHASE 3> 3 weeks of 1 working set of 8-12 for each exercise. Then rest for one week and, provided you ate properly, check fat. If fat remains an issue after week continue to check and back to strength/5x5. Once fat is checked, if you are still with me, change up again to poliquins GVT. Sound remotely OK? (Is it dre? Is it dre? Thats what they say, every single mf day)
Nate, my man, looks like we’re all on the boat to help ya, bro. You obviously want to do some cutting, so let’s get serious and do this dance, bro. Funny that Dre should mention cutting fructose (OJ & fruits) as well as lactose (milk and some cottage cheese). I would try to get as many carbs as possible from fibrous veggies. You could definitely go the route that Dre’s talking about, doing protein and fat before training, have your Surge then a protein and carb meal and another protein and fat before bed if needed. It may not sound like much fun, bro, but it’s a DIET, my man, and they’re really not supposed to be a bundle o’ joy. I agree with Dre–why the hell not, he’s a walkin’ talkin’ example–that cardio can work wonders…just watch the intensity (Dre, at such a low BF like you are, you have to be careful not to go too hard, don’t you think). The two optimal times for fat loss in my opinion would be: in a fasted state first thing in the morning and immediately after training when glycogen reserves are at a low point. You could also do a some before calling it a night (sounds like Dre was doing the same) and could keep the metabolic fires running all night long. We’re here to help ya, bro, so fire away with questions.
Dre…sweet stuff, bro. You’re totally tearin’ things up and sound absolutely stoked! I’m pumped for ya, bro. Ya sure ya want to bulk so soon? Don’t ya wanna enjoy the aesthetics for a bit? You’ve worked your ass off, my man, but do what ya gotta do and I’d be more than happy to have ya join in the fun. I like your ideas on dieting and cardio so far, buddy, and I really agree with you on zig-zagging after a couple weeks and think a similar approach could be done on a shorter-term basis (weekly) where you eat above maintenance for 4-5 days/week and under for 2-3, depending on aggressivenes and goals. BTW, bro, what makes you think Kelly’s a girl? Don’t for a second, brutha, consider yourself girly or an SB…you’ve friggin’ torn some major shit up, chief, and you sound like a damn determined wall of steel! Still looking for some training info regarding massing up, bro. What’s the P-L-A-N for the current mass cycle? I’m pretty damn sure I’ve got the eating aspect–obviously the most important–in order but don’t want to screw it up with poor practice in the gym. Still working on posting those abs, bro…here’s one that I like to kick the day off (triset): 1. Swiss Ball Crunches or Full Extension Crunches (weighted) + 2. Lying Leg Raises + 3. Deep Knee Pull-ins. Full Extension cruches: done on a chair or couch with feet propped on back of chair, lower back on the seat and upper/mid back completely off; descend as far as possible and cruch up. On all ab exercises maintain constant tension and concentrate especially hard on the negatives and feel the burn. Just rep out for now. On the first exercise I like to do isometric stops on the last couple reps, up to about 10 seconds, it’ll fry ya, boy!
Whopper…well, you’re number one SB is offended and feels completely left out:-( Seems that my driving force and inspiration no longer considers lil’ Timbo in the loop and only hopes he fails so he can grill him up. Anyway, I’m rootin’ for ya, big man…and I got YOUR back thru and thru. You’re fightin’ balls-to-the-wall if anyone ever has, and if you ever need a pick-me-up (not that you’re not the most focused, driven T-Man up in this crib) you can count on your lil’ SB to be here for ya, man. Until then, it’s a constant and focused effort to approach the massiveness that I so desire!
Dre…okay, big dog, I think I’ve totally pissed the moderator off by now! I’m just getting ready to call it a night, but wanted to give a quick word of thanks for your hard work for me, bro. That’s hella cool that you’re watchin’ (Dre’s a watcher) out for your lil’ T-bro SB. Sorry I pestered you so much about fixin’ me up, but I’ve got some major respect for ya and your accomplishments, chief. I’ll check it out a lil’ more in depth tomorrow and hopefully hit ya up with some background, ya instinctive bastard! My access is gonna be limited tomorrow too, so bear with me. Lata!
Hey Nate Dogg,
Afer reviewing your diet I see a few changes you could easily make that will lower your carb. intake a little while keeping your caloric intake about the same.
Breakfast: cut out the morning O.J. and skim milk, maybe replace with boiled eggs or oatmeal.
Lunch: cut out the potato, replace with a small salad and full-fat dressing (about 200 calories worth)
Snack: cut out the apple with the cottage cheese, replace with a scoop of protein powder mixed in with the cottage cheese…if you haven’t tried it this tastes awesome.
Dinner: eat 1/2 potato instead of the entire thing-replace with cheese melted over your chicken breast.
Of course there are many adjustments you could possibly make as I don’t really know your preferences, these are just some of the things off the top of my head.
DAMN - whopper’s training for a full on fighting tournament, lifting and eating to put on like 30 pounds, has a personal life that makes mine look like a garden gnomes, and still has the energy to motivate us and the good spirits to crack me up every other post (dearly beloved … oh man). Im working had on my puny squat tonight fo sho - anunusually high number of inspired sets Im thinking - supersetted with curls (I have a plan). Whopper - on my previous training tip, ever thought of reducing/dropping squats for a while for some upper body/shaping gains? Or substituting dl for squat to some extent?
Dre my man, I do both squats and deads. I understand your point about not gaining too much size, and what you told me about the shoulders makes sense, but if you have read about my body in other threads you know…I DONT OWN ANY SHOULDERS, and can’t seem to buy them! Buildwise, kinda like the Undertaker…not broad shoulders, and OK arms…in fact chest and back look a little out of proportion (too big) to the arms some days. Most people looking at me in street clothes never guess I tip the scales at 250…most figure about 220 due to the ectomorphic frame (cursed genetics!) If you got a method to the madness to put some shoulder caps on this man, I would be looking huge just like you said…so any suggestions Dre??
Timbo, I didn’t mention you because I am too busy looking at how to prepare your scrawny ass…I am thinking Timbo Francais, Timbo Stir Fry, Timbo with a side of pasta, etc. You know…170 by the first week in June…or else me and my Ginsu knives are coming to visit!! Nate…Kelley is doing well by ya…hope your taking the advice. All you guys…please keep the Vixen in your prayers on Monday, she goes in for surgery for her scoliosis, and is gonna be under the knife for 8 hours, they are putting a rod in her spine, and they may have to remove a few ribs. Her chances are good, she is just petrified, because there is the chance of life in a wheelchair whenever they operate on your back…and that is all she is thinking about! Keep pumping bros!!
traps and delts) and a mens health guy (pecs, mid). I just had to do it - Ive been busting my ass all week lifting but you wouldnt know because I was always a little puffier than I would like (although still 6pack and 5% tanita) so I think I have earned the right to look fit for a change. Having lived the life of a girly man (ha ha) the diet ends this sunday for another serious get big session. Whopper, this will save you the trouble of having to grill me up…
Don’t for a second, brutha, consider yourself girly or an SB…you’ve friggin’ torn some major shit up, chief, and you sound like a damn determined wall of steel! Still looking for some training info regarding massing up, bro. What’s the P-L-A-N for the current mass cycle? I’m pretty damn sure I’ve got the eating aspect–obviously the most important–in order but don’t want to screw it up with poor practice in the gym. Still working on posting those abs, bro…here’s one that I like to kick the day off (triset): 1. Swiss Ball Crunches or Full Extension Crunches (weighted) + 2. Lying Leg Raises + 3. Deep Knee Pull-ins. Full Extension cruches: done on a chair or couch with feet propped on back of chair, lower back on the seat and upper/mid back completely off; descend as far as possible and cruch up. On all ab exercises maintain constant tension and concentrate especially hard on the negatives and feel the burn. Just rep out for now. On the first exercise I like to do isometric stops on the last couple reps, up to about 10 seconds, it’ll fry ya, boy!