Whopper, my man, first things first…the Vixen will definitely be in my prayers and occupying my thoughts, bro. Believe me, we’re all about having things go as well as they possibly can and we’re cheering for her and optimal recovery…you can grill your brain for all kinds of wonderful SB dishes, but I suggest you direct your thoughts elsewhere and save the energy because 170 won’t be a problem…I’ve also got a couple ideas for getting some caps up on those delts of yours. Have you ever done any up-the-rack or down-the-rack training or even heard of them? How about 1 1/2 rep technique or isometric stops in lateral and other raises? Just a few ideas to throw out at ya. Trisets and giant sets could also do the trick. Of course, heavy presses would be the core. Ever try seated/standing alternate DB presses?
Dre and Kelly, thanks for the tips. I too reviewed my diet and am now tweaking it to cut some carbs here and there. I love my morning OJ, so instead of cutting it out completely, I’m reducing the amount I drink. Trying to take just enough to swallow the pills. I will limit my carb intake to just fruits and veggies. But I will definitely lower my intake of potatoes (starchy carbs). I have always loved potatoes and tend to eat them 4-5 times a week, whether baked or mashed. So I will cut back big time. As for the milk in my morning Grow shake, I don’t want to eliminate that because I feel that it’s important to have a good mix of protein and carbs first thing in the morning. The milk helps boost my protein intake after an all night fast. But I will limit my milk intake to that one shake per day. I will still use cottage cheese and yogurt (protein and good bacteria for digestion), but I may cut my cottage cheese intake and subsitute with another protein source. I’ve been thinking about doing something similar to the MRP diet, but it’s so freakin’ expensive. With my current bills, I find it hard to spend even more money on supplements than I already do. I realize that if I cut whole food out of my diet, this will save me money, so I need to find a balance. But I do like the idea for short term use to get leaner. And I will increase the cardio for sure. I had a two hour mountain bike ride last night. It felt great and really wore me down. I’m getting ready for Portland in two weeks. I’ll be tearing up some trails then! I will do some sprints after today’s weight workout. I’ll try doing them two to three times a week. So that will give me five days of cardio in addition to whatever I do on the weekends for fun. I’m on a mission!
Hey Timbo, I’m curious about something. I’ve noticed that you have asked about everyone’s split, and I assume you are doing this to figure out what your next training plan will look like. But it sounds like you are gathering this info, but not yet actually doing it! Bro, we all have different splits. And we do what works best for us. So that’s what I suggest you do when you make your “Mass Gaining” training program. Write down the 12 muscle groups as Ian King divides them up. Now, look at your history of training. Have you always done chest first? Then I bet you have an imbalance between horizontal pushing/pulling. So look over your imbalances and then divide your training to account for that. I’m not using a specific push/pull or push/push training program for the hell of it. I’ve divided it up for imbalances. That’s why my deadlifts and rows are first in the week. So figure out your imbalances and put your training together based on that. Remember, it’s nothing more than basic exercises and plenty of hard work. Then just vary your rep ranges every few weeks so your body won’t adapt. I have another week of 5x5 after this week. Then I have a week off (vacation), and will come back doing Poliquin’s 6x2(4). This will provide some variety in rep ranges so my body won’t adjust too quickly. After a month of that, I will be doing Staley’s Convergent Phase Training. Again, that has varied rep ranges. After three months of that, I’ll probably do some higher reps for a month and then go back to lower reps again. And all the while, it will be all the basic exercises with some subsitutions (incline bench for flat bench, chins for pullups, front or back squat, etc). So get to it bro! 
Nate Doggie Dogg…gotcha, bro! You’re on the money again. Yeah, it sure must look like I don’t have a clue as to what the hell I’m doing and constantly searching for the pill…that’s not really the case and I do put quite a bit of effort into this game. Just like to get a little bit of flavor from those who I respect and have been around a while–yourself, Whopper and Dre in particular and JB when he’s around. As far as imbalances, pushing/pulling and the like, I have been more aware of these critical aspects since coming across T-mag and Coach King. I haven’t necessarily been doing all vertical pushing and pulling and all horizontal pushing and pulling on the same days per se, but I make sure that these movements balance out over the course of a microcycle. If anything, I have compensated recently for past favoritism of pushing with a bit more pulling. I’ve also become more aware of separating hip- and quad-dominant exercises. So your lil’ buddy isn’t totally lost…just a little:-) Still learning, living and loving, my friend! I am still working on the Mass Schedule and really appreciate your and Dre’s counsel to this point and hope you’ll evaluate it when I’m thru. Oh, and you’re damn straight about Hard Work and Big Basics.
Now…on to the Doggie Diet:-) I like the idea of eliminating the starchy carbs for the most part but think you could get away with a potato or some rice every once in a while earlier in the day. That being said, you could consider some oats in the monin’ instead of your treasured OJ. I know you love your fruits and juice, bro, but I really think that the elimination of fructose will reap some nice benefits. Remember this isn’t anything permanent, it’s just a little cutting phase. You won’t have to abandon the fruits for ever. If anything, just try to back off the fruits a bit. You could definitely cut back on the cottage cheese and just use a scoop of protein powder mixed in…not only some extra protein but a damn tasty treat! I personally don’t see a need to go MRP-style or supplement crazy. You can get all the goods from whole foods…lean protein sources and good, fibrous veggies. Of course, you may want to add some flax to the mix. Way to go on the cardio too, bro! Sounds like you’ve upped it a notch. As for the post-workout cardio, I think you could do as Whopper suggests and alternate intensity levels. This is what I prefer to do and it keeps it from getting too boring. You can do this running, biking, stair climber, inside, outside, anything…it’s rather effective. Thanks for your help, bro, and I’ll catch ya later:-)
Waz-up my felow t-men.I haven’t posted on this thread before as i have been on a slightly modified fat fast where i do two and a half weeks fat fast and then 4days of severe carb loading.I have done this 2 times now and have came down from 196 lbs at 24% bf to 172 lbs at 14% bf which if i have calculated right means i have only lost a pound of muscle not bad for using real food and only a multi vitamin eah!! Anyway to my point after a straight three week stint of fat fast where i want to come in at 158 lbs and 8%bf i will be doing a bulking stage where it is my mission to gain as much strength as possible and 17 lbs of mucle to go along with it whilst staying below 11 %bf so i will be along for the ride with you guys for some time.
Nate Dogg had to comment i have had great results with the 6 by 2(4) routine and if you want any particulars just ask, as i have done it round about 4 times now.
Keep eating and stay focassed to all.
Timbo: Not to pile on or anything but I see your posts all over this board and at all times. When do you have time to get big? I mean I’d be taking this stuff to heart…Dre and Whopper just kicked sand in your face and now it’s time to stop BS’n and go and get big. Remember the cartoon? Just my $.02
I want to say something that I feel is important to my success as well many others. I feel that we should stick to the “basics.” Basic training involving the basic exercises that hit the most muscle fibers, training 3-4 days a week with weights and an additional 3-4 days of cardio, and basic nutrition (meat, fruits, veggies, dairy, etc).
Because the most important thing to remind yourself is “Is this healthy?” After reviewing this thread, McCallum’s book (Keys to Progress) and sending an email to Timbo, there were a few things that crossed my mind. A few of you recommend that I limit carbs to 150 grams or less. I asked myself, is this healthy? Sure, it’s a quick fix to get lean. But what if it hurts me in the long run? Two important things to remember about nutrition are: 1) Amount of Calories 2) Amount of Protein. If I want to lose fat, I should consume less calories than I burn. It’s just a matter of finding the sweet spot. And it’s important to keep protein intake to 1.5-2 grams per pound of bodyweight. That’s it. The rest of what I eat should have plenty of nutrients, fiber and good fat. It should come from fruits, veggies, dairy products, etc. So my plan of attack is to cut some of the carbs that I don’t need (simple sugars, too many potatoes) or replace them with vegetables. I’ll increase my cardio to burn more calories and that should do it. I like the idea of keeping things simple. Training and eating shouldn’t be overly complicated. I like to eat and enjoy what I’m eating, not having to worry about each meal having the same calories throughout the day or missing out on key nutrients.
For all of you trying to gain, it should also be simple. Eat a lot of food, train hard on the basic exercises, get plenty of rest, make sure you stay healthy and you should grow!! Any exercise program will give results if you eat enough food and train hard enough. Like the military believes, Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS).
Ok, you win whopper, as I hold my life in high regard, I have decided to change my name from “BigDog” to “Puppy on the Porch” this is a temporary setback for me…maybe in a month it can be “Fairly large looking terrier on the porch” I might even get it up to “Bulldog missing the myostatin gene.” More seriously though, I have a question regarding my routine. what do you think about this: DAY 1: Bench 5 sets of 12 reps…Fly’s 2 sets for 12 reps DAY 2: Power Clean 6 sets 12 reps…Rows 2 sets of 12 reps DAY 3: Abs DAY 4: Shoulder press to front 5 sets of 12 reps…press to behind neck 2 sets for 12 reps DAY 5: rest DAY 6:(the greatest day)Squat 4 sets of 12 reps…Deadlift 4 sets of 12 DAY 7: Pull-ups/Chin ups 4 sets each 5 reps DAY 8: Rest
Walks in from his martial arts class…still feeling wired for sound…ready to chew into his back and chest day…bend the bar…break the plates…force the bench into SUBMISSION! Looking for his Linkin Park CD…cause I am ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE EDGE…AND I’M ABOUT TO BREAK! Snatches Timbo by the neck…takes a gallon of milk, and upends it into Timbos mouth like he is a water cooler…EAT TIMBO!! Sorry guys, the stress of everything is getting to me…I am doing my best to channel it and use it right now…but it aint easy!! Anyway…Puppy, I am glad to see you got rid of the name…you gotta EARN that name bro…and you will be proud of yourself when you do…seriously. There is nothing worse than carrying a handle that isnt really you…but there is nothing better than EARNING that handle. The rest of you guys…ever have a day where you didn’t feel “big” enough to walk around in your Testosterone T-shirt? It is strange that for me a stupid shirt takes on a meaning…but it does…I only wear it when I am feeling all fired up and pumped up…yes, I am wierd…lol. Back to puppy…the split is interesting. Its got all the basics, but your hitting back twice in 8 days, and chest once…I prefer less recovery time between workouts for a specific body part…but if it works for ya…I am not gonna knock it!! I like to hit a body part every 5 days…it works for me…to others it might be overtraining, so Puppy, Timbo, and the rest of you skinny bastards…put it like this…everything works and nothing works. Puppy, are you trying to work on specific body parts more? or are you just looking for general size, or strength? 10-12 reps for size is great…it is what I use. I know Nate and Dre grow on sets of 5, but for me all they do is make me stronger, not bigger. Those are just my general observations, I will take a more serious look at it once I hit chest and back…and give you further input. Later all!
Puppy on the Porch, the only suggestion I would make is to lower your reps in the power clean to 5. The power clean should never be done for reps. I learned this when I did some Olympic lifting. And also, Poliquin has said the same thing. As more than 5 reps tends to cause the rhomboids and other assistance muscles to fatigue causing bad form. So up the weight and lower the reps. Besides, power cleans really take it out of you. After five reps, you really don’t want to do anymore. I hope to see you looking like the Bulldog on the Porch soon!
LOL Puppy on the porch. I think the exercise selection is up there with the best but unless you are a real easy gainer I would go for at least 3 rest days out of every 7. I would also be inclined to reduce voulume if gains were slow and would definitely reduce volume by half in the last part of the cycle as per Poliquins recommendation. Given my rest preference, and a perference for an rolling cycle, Id move day 6 to day 2 (when you are fresher), and combine day 2 and 7 at day 5 andd take 6 and 7 off. Its probably not ideal for you but it may give you some inspiration. Good work FFB - when I come off a diet I like to take it easy on fat and carbs but still use the slower metabolism for (hopefully) early lean gains.
Whopper - for serious shoulder specialisation (and I think this is the answer her), reduce volume on as many other lifts as possible (esp squat and dl), train delts them at least 3 days after from an delt or tricep work, do them first in the week, and go for Ian Kings delt program in a recent Heavy Metal or 3x8-12 seated behind neck military (heavy as, wide and narrow grip alternating, dont let weight stray back), 2 x standing military (shoulder grip, crazy heavy using some partials if need be but be very careful of shoulder and back) and then some front, side and rear raises (3-6 sets as needed, tri sets if desired). I dont do upright rows because they give me trouble but they may help if you have never used them. Some big traps also highlight size so db, from bb and rear bb shrugs might be good although mine blew up and gave me a real hulk look. I remember the undertaker post now and am sure delts are the answer. Ill bet the effect will be pronounced and some major lat specialisation at the same time might further exaggerate effect.
Update for me - did another real low cal dont diet day and then worked out STILL STRONGER?? after about 6 miles a day and lifting 7 out of 9 days. Did 8 sets of 8 squats supersetting with 8 sets of curls including 3 sets of 10 x 100 with good form (i was doing 5x90 at the start of the diet?) and 2x30 incline hammers (had trouble with 10 last week). Then 30 mins cardio then surge, decent stir fry and double zinc and magnesium. The bad news, I couldnt sleep until about 3:30 am and the horizontal cut halfway down my abs have a strangely larger section on my right side (maybe fat loss but I dont remember it, a pull maybe from my trial an error vacuum/core stabilisation breathing?). No pain but maybe some sensation … just too tired … Timbo you are right, Im goring the flounder here (nuts … I swear by TC’s stuff but for some reason dont live by it enough) … 2 days no lifting (programmed in advance but still).
PS - got you on the vixen Whopper. I was lifting alot last year and also digging on a building site. One morning I had wild back and neck pain, so bad I went to a physio for the first time - he said I had scoliosis but after easing the muscle smasms around it he could straighten it out. Mine is called postural scoliosis and only recurs if I do losts of unbalanced stuff or twitch too much under militaty press with big wheels. Different to the vixens though. Hope she feels 100% soon.
OK the workout is finished. Now then Puppy…ABS on day 3?? A whole AB day? throw that right out…lol…just use crunches to warm up each workout…that will do the trick. Now as for the rest, I see no arm specific training…if ya have good guns already…thats fine. If you don’t…then consider that issue. Also your gonna do squats and deads on one day together…but give shoulders a day to themselves? Doesn’t make sense to me…I would rather see something like this…Day 1 (Chest/shoulders) Day 2 (Squats) Day 3 rest Day 4 Back (both your rows and chins this day) Day 5 Deadlifts Day 6 rest. I would throw out the power cleans…keep the rest of your exercises. If you want to do some arm work, toss in the bi’s on back day, and a few sets of tris on chest/shoulder day. Keep total # of sets per workout at around 12 to 15 and you will be doing well! Good luck
Waz-up my fellow T-men.I normally don’t ask much questions but i need help!!! There i said it.
First off Dre help a bro out would ya? i’m not one for cardio but i think to hit the 8 % b/f mark i’ll need some so can you give me an idea of what kind/frequency/intesity u did to get shredded? Currently when i am at the gym i hit the heavy bag for 5, 2-3 min rounds so any thoughts would be appreciated. Also did u use a keto diet to get so shredded and if so did u experiment with one day all protein and another all fat if so what were the results like?
Next After i’m finnished cutting up i will be primerly concerned with making my strength levels increse dramatically basically for every pound of muscle i gain i want to add 10 pounds to my deadlift squat and bench. I know this is alot but i have found that no matter which way i train i don’t really gain any significant size but rather strength.Any routine suggestions, supplement tips, diet tips anything would be greatly appreciated.
I’ll list my stats so u know what u are dealing with.
Stats:
age 16
height 6’0
weight 168lbs 13% bf {aiming for 154 8%}
{then 168 below 10%}
years training 1.5 pissing about 6 months balls to the wall
Deadlift 356lbs for 2 reps
Bench 175lbs for 2 reps
squat 300lbs for 4 reps
please help me as i want to be freaky strong compared to my bodywieght . Thanx in advance as i know you wont let me down as i wouldn’t you.
PROGRESS REPORT 5-16-01: Okay, don’t laugh at my poundages, but this is what I did for Wednesday’s workout. 1) Five sets of five with an additional 10lbs in shoulder-width chins. 2) Five sets of five with 105lbs in standing overhead press. 3) Five sets of five with 165lbs in barbell shrug. I just switched from doing dumbbells to the barbell. The weight was easy, so I need to adjust next week. I skipped calves (running low on time), and did 15 minutes of sprints alternated with walking in between. Not a bad workout, and I’ll be adding more weight next week. I haven’t hit a blocking point in those exercises yet. I also cut some calories and carbs yesterday. I woke up this morning and felt five pounds lighter, but when I grabbed the love handles, they were still there. But I did seem leaner. So the diet is working so far. The MD6 is helping with appetite, and three caps of T2 seem to be more effective for me.
For Thursday, I’ll be off to the trails for another two-hour mountain biking ride. Friday’s weight workout is planned as follows. Again, no laughing at poundages. Remember, I only started doing squats again three weeks ago. This is after a 6-month layoff. FRIDAY: Front squats followed immediately by a set of back squats with same weight (165x5x5), Bench presses (185x5x5), Dips (bodyweight + 50lbsx5x5), strict barbell curls (70x5x5). I’ll be sure to post my progress report tomorrow to update on my workout. Gonna get lean and mean for the summer, and come back with a vengence in the fall to add more mass!
In response to whopper’s inquiry as to whether i am just going for size or strength, I am definitely going all out size. I figure as long as you look the part no one is going to question you anyway. I don’t need and arm work as my guns are prolly one of my most gifted parts. The are very large for my size and are almost out of proportion with my chest. My my, what a problem right? Haha. I think I’ll do the whopper split but I am still going to have my ab day along with my quads. and I am inserting an additional Power clean day (sorry, I love those damn things too much). I’m also incorporating Nate Doggs advice and lowering the clean reps to about 5-6 reps. Thanks guys, appreciate the input. Oh, yeah, whopper, I had back twice cause that part of my body is lacking and I have a friend who is in a perpetual state of staring at his crotch from too much chest work. I still have great posture though. I also really like training my back.
Oh Yeah, almost forgot, that shoulder specializaiton is because I am like obsessed with getting ultra-massive shoulders and back to really get that nice triangular look. I have a really small frame at 5’9" (used to weight 135! uugghh).
After 10 days of starvation and 1-2 hours workouts Ive pretty much lost no weight - 168 last night with good veins in abs and light quad cuts but stalled. End of diet and back to the drawing board. Given that, FFB, my advice on weight loss may be iffy but I found the easiest diet was sort of MRP/Warrior/Dont Diet ie protein shakes every 3 hours (MRP) with moderate carbs or fat if desired (dont diet) and a decent protain carb meal post workout (warrior/dont diet) and flax and protein pre dinner. Cardio was as much as I could get in each day which was 30 min - 1 hour and most days 45 mins lifting. Monitor weight loss and when it stalls Id recommend the timbo or puppy programs above. If nothing, the cardio will get you fit which is good for function and workout intensity (6 miles in an hour is a good goal) PUPPY - I like Whoppers suggested program but am also very keen on shoulder specialisation - if you can decifer my recommendations above you will see its more or less chest, other powerlifts, abs, delts, back (I think). NATE - I think some frown on poundages here but I find it motivating (Im gunning to outgain you on dl). Whilst I weigh a little more I 5x5 military 120, shoulder width chin + 20, 220 bench and on bb curl STRICT went from 75x10 to 100x10 in a little over a month. In my old gym some guy trolled me about doing 70 so I got a mental block but recently decided to push it up and did 5x5 pretty strict 85 - 90 to get up there. If the overall plan is leaner and obsessed with stronger then eating with higher reps at the increased weight you cant go wrong.
OK Dre…here is the shoulder specialization plan my man…for tonight…I loaded up t-mag, did a set of militarys, then lateral raises. Read a post, then did militarys with bent over raises, then repeated with each thread I have read. So far I am up to about 8 of these sets…and still have more reading to do…so the shoulders should be nice and beat up. I wouldnt make a routine out of this, but it is fun for an evening…might even get up to 15 sets tonight! See skinny bastards, can’t always take this iron game so seriously…just having some fun with the old shoulders tonight!