[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
So we can agree that the Saudis are as bad as the Iranians. So why are we allied to them, but morally outraged by Iran?[/quote]
Because the government of Iran has been consistently hostile to our government for 30 or so years and the Saudi’s government, as screwed up as it is, has not.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I stated that she was not hanged for rape. I claimed that she was a sexually active despite being single. I oppose the death penalty.
Clear?[/quote]
If you can not see the problem with hanging someone because they were “sexually active” you have a problem, opponent of the death penalty or not.
[quote]lixy wrote:
You say that her 3-years affair with the married man was rape, whereas the girl declared that it was consensual. Forgive me for granting her words more credit than yours.[/quote]
You didn’t even look at the investigative reports, did you? She was RAPED (non consenting) and PHYSICALLY ABUSED! Put down the Iranian press release. Did she consent in other sexual encounters with him? I don’t doubt it at all. Child rape and molestation victims do that, you know…They tend to think that’s all they’re good for, and become fearful of breaking the cycle of abuse, or of even telling their own parents.
You have a seriously deranged view of her. A 13 old victim of rape committed by the Moral Authorities, comes under the attention of an Ex Revolutionary Guard, who rapes her several times, and beats her…
In the Great Satan we call that a child victim of rape and molestation. A child repeatedly preyed upon by men of some authority (in her case, extreme authority) and cowed into the role of sperm receptacle. A victim that needs help, protection, love, patience, and counseling. To you, and the Iranians, she is a “slut” playing with fire.
I’m done with you. You’ve slipped too many times and showed your extreme colors. When a real moderate muslim gets on this forum, I’ll be glad to hear from him/her.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Do you denounce that the same kind of thing is going on in Iran, Nigeria? [/quote]
Geez, did you even read my posts or do you just jump out of nowhere hoping I’ll fill you in? I am against the death penalty. Period. Whether it’s for engaging in adultery or torturing sick puppies is irrelevant.
I don’t know.
Maybe because I am inherently anti-monarchist. Maybe because the Al-Sauds don’t allow their “subjects” to have any say in how the country is run. Maybe because they don’t let their women drive. Maybe because they don’t have codified laws and rely on an archaic system of the judge deciding as he goes along. Maybe because it was a Saudi supported group that almost blew me up in 2003 in Casablanca. Maybe because everywhere I go, I find extravagant palaces that belong to one of the Al-Sauds. Maybe because they give my religion a bad name. Maybe because nobody is threatening them and calling for Saudi genocide. Maybe because they’re a bunch of bedouins who couldn’t hold a candle to the Persians in arts, and sciences. Maybe because they mess up with little girls’ right to have an education.
Like I said, I don’t really know.
Not following. I did not make excuses for the Iranians. I simply set the record straight on one particular case. Sifu claimed that Atefah was prosecuted for rape and I called BS. We have established that it wasn’t. I am still waiting for him to elaborate on his outlandish claim about some Nigeria case. That’s about it.
I don’t see what you’re trying to get at. I respect the right of a people to practice the law they see fit. The Iranians decided how they wanted their system to be in 1979. The Saudis…well, the Al-Sauds decided for them.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
So we can agree that the Saudis are as bad as the Iranians. So why are we allied to them, but morally outraged by Iran?
Because the government of Iran has been consistently hostile to our government for 30 or so years and the Saudi’s government, as screwed up as it is, has not.[/quote]
That is because the US has been hostile against the Iran for more than 50 years and not against SA.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
If you can not see the problem with hanging someone because they were “sexually active” you have a problem, opponent of the death penalty or not.[/quote]
If you cannot see that an opponent of the death penalty automatically sees a problem with the hanging of anyone, then you’re simply retarded.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You didn’t even look at the investigative reports, did you? [/quote]
I watched it when it first came out.
Says you.
Well, that’s deplorable. But you see, when I was 13, I had intercourse with older women. I was fully consenting and there’s no way in hell you’re going to convince me that I got molested and abused.
You do realize 13 years old is age of consent in Spain and many other countries?
What you do in your country is your own business.
Lixy this is low even for a piece of filth like you. Keep it up.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I understand your doubletalk and I see through it. You try to deceive like a lawyer. Iran punishes rape victims. You try to pretend it doesn’t because no one can find a written law that demands it do so. The fact is Iran punishes rape victims and you try to convince otherwise.
Innocents were and are still fried in the US. That much is uncontroversial thanks to advances in science and technology. Is it not a logical fallacy to say that the US supports those wrongful executions?
That’s exactly what you are trying to do here. Iran has clear and unambiguous written laws to protect and avenge victims of rape. Does it get abused? Sure. But to say that it has the support of the state is plain silly.
The lot of Mr. Sifu repeatedly claimed that punishing rape is part of Saudi and Iranian law. That’s blatant disinformation and that is the main point in my post. You called me a liar, yet refuse to show us where my lies are. In a perfect world, I could drag you in court over that and get formal apologies.
In a perfect world I would drag you through the computer screen and beat your ass.
The Saudi and Iranian legal systems routinely punish rape victims. Not for rape but for intercourse. Their laws don’t require punishment for rape, merely for intercourse outside marriage. Rape is considered intercourse by those barbarians apparently by you as well as you called a girl that was raped at 13 a slut.
[/quote]
You knpw guys, this stuff is feeding my dislike of Muslims a lot. A 13 year old rape victim is a slut? Man, we need to liberate these countries and convert the people to Christianity! Ann Coulter was right!!
[quote]lixy wrote:
Well, that’s deplorable. But you see, when I was 13, I had intercourse with older women. [/quote]
Younger women too?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I understand your doubletalk and I see through it. You try to deceive like a lawyer. Iran punishes rape victims. You try to pretend it doesn’t because no one can find a written law that demands it do so. The fact is Iran punishes rape victims and you try to convince otherwise.
Innocents were and are still fried in the US. That much is uncontroversial thanks to advances in science and technology. Is it not a logical fallacy to say that the US supports those wrongful executions?
That’s exactly what you are trying to do here. Iran has clear and unambiguous written laws to protect and avenge victims of rape. Does it get abused? Sure. But to say that it has the support of the state is plain silly.
The lot of Mr. Sifu repeatedly claimed that punishing rape is part of Saudi and Iranian law. That’s blatant disinformation and that is the main point in my post. You called me a liar, yet refuse to show us where my lies are. In a perfect world, I could drag you in court over that and get formal apologies.
In a perfect world I would drag you through the computer screen and beat your ass.
The Saudi and Iranian legal systems routinely punish rape victims. Not for rape but for intercourse. Their laws don’t require punishment for rape, merely for intercourse outside marriage. Rape is considered intercourse by those barbarians apparently by you as well as you called a girl that was raped at 13 a slut.
You knpw guys, this stuff is feeding my dislike of Muslims a lot. A 13 year old rape victim is a slut? Man, we need to liberate these countries and convert the people to Christianity! Ann Coulter was right!!
[/quote]
Sorry, HH, gotta disagree with ya. I don’t want forced conversion of anyone. My own christian religion has some bloody blemishes, and I don’t want those to be standard policy of my church ever again.
If a muslim wants to convert of his/her own free will? Cool, I am for voluntary coversion. Of course, in too many Islamic nations he’d be an apostate, and well, life sucks and is often short for such a person.
And HH, Coulter is a loon.
Osama Bin Lixy, you are a fucking piece of work. So lets see;
Killing Terrorists = Bad
Killing Sluts = Awesome, I mean hell that slut deserved it right? She was fucking like a rabbit so she must die. Makes you wonder about the whole “no gays in middle east” thing, are you killing off sluts so they won’t hinder Special Man Time?
You tell us to stay out of their business if we don’t like their policy, well stay the fuck out of Americas business if you don’t like ours.
You had sex at 13 with older women? RIGHTTTTTTT
Beating off to Jihad Weekly’s Terrorist of the Month spread isn’t sex my friend.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
If you can not see the problem with hanging someone because they were “sexually active” you have a problem, opponent of the death penalty or not.
If you cannot see that an opponent of the death penalty automatically sees a problem with the hanging of anyone, then you’re simply retarded.[/quote]
I read all your posts. But your first reaction was she was a slut who got what she deserved. So, this, logically, means you think she deserved death (or punishment) for being abused.
And how exactly would one act slutty in a burka anyways?
[quote]lixy wrote:
What you do in your country is your own business.[/quote]
You’re the one constantly posting comments about our country and what it does.
How could someone who deplores the death penalty think that someone deserves death? Does your religion believe that she deserves death?
It would explain a lot.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Atefah was arrested by the police.
While she was in police custody the police raped her.
It’s called abuse of power and is in no way restricted to Iran.
When she tried to file rape charges against the police who raped her she was charged with adultery. Because under Sharia law a woman who is raped is an adulterer. Because she has had sex with someone she isn’t married to.
You are either a bigot or a fine example of how much moronic a person can get.
Your statement is a load of horseshit. First of all, you speak of adultery as an offense that’s independent of whether the people involved are married or not. But that’s nothing compared to the claim that the law in Iran calls for punishing rape victims. That’s simply [u]FALSE[/u], period. If you can’t be bothered to check simple legal texts, you are in no position to speak of the reasons underlying her arrest and execution.
I tried to reason with you, but you persist in repeating the ridiculous idea that any (and I mean any!) legal system on Earth would condone punishing victims. It goes against basic common sense. But somehow, you seem to turn your brains off when faced with propaganda.
Imbecile![/quote]
If I am a bigot all I have to say it takes one to know one. And you muslims most certainly are bigots. Especially when it comes to women.
Lixy you have a very selective memory when it comes to the behaviour of muslims. Muslims are well known for abusing women. The Saudi woman, Atefah, the Nigerian sharia courts are just the tip of the iceburgh of a widespread problem.
I would not call your style of debating reasoning. Your number one response to any point you can’t deny is blame shifting. ie I say The Iranians hang a sixteen year old for filing a rape complaint, to which you reply Americans arrest people for smoking weed.
I think it’s wrong to arrest or ticket people for smoking weed (provided they aren’t driving) but that is not the point here. The point here is the deeply ingrained culture of chauvanism and misogyny in Islam.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I read all your posts. But your first reaction was she was a slut who got what she deserved. [/quote]
You keep saying that. Where did I say that she “got what she deserved”?
Yes, I called her a slut for having a 3-year affair with a married man and screwing around on the side. So what? She isn’t the example of chastity you know.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
What you do in your country is your own business.
You’re the one constantly posting comments about our country and what it does. [/quote]
Your country claims the known universe is within its sphere of influence.
Fry people in your country all you want, just don’t invade and bomb others who didn’t do a thing to you.
Again, where did I ever say that anyone deserved death?
Do some homework for crying out loud!
[quote]Sifu wrote:
And you muslims most certainly are bigots. Especially when it comes to women. [/quote]
Nice. Paint a billion and a half people with the same brush.
You went through this many times already. I usually end up showing you majority-Muslim countries granting women the right to vote well before some of the Western countries. Then I go on to list the many Muslim women who end up in the most prominent positions in their country. At that point you usually just shut up and again use weasel words such as “well kwown” and “widespread” without a shred of supporting evidence.
And let me guess, you’re from the Pittsburgh area?
No sir. That’s not what you said. You said that she got hung for rape which is an entirely different animal.
The case shows how corrupt the judicial system can get. It’s tragic we should indeed bring it to light. But, for heaven’s sake, the least you can do is get your facts straight.
There was a very belligerent kid in my primary school. He’d get in a fight every couple of days. The principal called his parents so many times that they finally talked some sense out of him. One day, he was eating his lunch quietly, when suddenly another kid violently knocked down his tray and jumped on him. The first kid got suspended despite the many eyewitnesses. Life’s a bitch.
If you’re gonna use “big words”, look them up in a dictionary. Misspelling them makes you look extra-dorky.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
I read all your posts. But your first reaction was she was a slut who got what she deserved.
You keep saying that. Where did I say that she “got what she deserved”?
Yes, I called her a slut for having a 3-year affair with a married man and screwing around on the side. So what? She isn’t the example of a chastity you know.[/quote]
Ah, women are either “chaste” ot “sluts”.
Maybe she should have killed herself honorably before allowing to be the object that made a Muslim man fall from grace and thereby remain pure.
[quote]orion wrote:
texasguy2 wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
texasguy2 wrote:
This story is a pretty fucked up one. I don’t see how anyone can be in support of leaving the region alone.
The middle east today is middle aged europe under the catholic inquisition. I highly doubt that woman wants the US and it’s views of justice to fuck off.
When you say ‘leave the region alone’ what exactly do you mean?
I am wondering if because they have a law that you disagree with, this means and justifies invading their country.
I pretty much disagree with their entire legal system because of the way it allocates such backwards punishment as we see here.
I think there are millions of Saudi’s and other middle easterners who are not happy with their lives because of such a shitty legal system/culture and that they are being bullied with no means of self protection to speak of. Again, this girl is a great example.
I do think we have the power to prevent such atrocities and should not stand idle as they happen.
It is akin to walking down the street, seeing a girl being sexually assaulted and doing nothing to help. The girl.
Plus they have tons of oil, we have the ability to take it, and I think we should.
What makes you think you can force them to treat their women differently or take their oil?
Who is going to enforce this?
The boy scouts?
[/quote]
Usually laws enacted to punish specific behaviors and punishments that are actually carried out create a fear of breaking a law.
So, rewrite the system to punish rapists rather than rape victims, punish the rapists and watch rape start to decline.
Do this for the entire system and create a new culture in a matter of years where future children will never know any difference. In half a generation, you will have total indoctrination of the new system and it’s legally enforced morals. The people will govern themselves.