Sacrifice Versus Reward

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:15am

Beans: I don’t have an intention of arguing with you maliciously because I believe you’re a nice person and do like you from what you’ve written. Perhaps I’m just arguing/debating in a friendly and analytical way.

I also don’t get the pervasive T-mag attitude of “The world is being ruined by people who don’t work as hard as us T-folks!” Where does this come from? Again, perhaps I’m blessed in the sense that everyday I go to work, I don’t see the excessively lazy and irresponsible people you speak of.

Because I’m winding down for bed, and don’t want to fritter away the next hr watching TV, and just FEEL LIKE writing, I’ll run down a list of those closest to me – as I’ve done before. Keep in mind I still consider them average (according to HARD and STIFF definitions listed!)! Well, actually, before I go ahead, I DON’T consider my grandfather average despite the fact that he has almost no education (I think 6th grade was highest he went), but rather because of his exceptional personality, attributes, and boldness, and extreme hard-drivenness (most people don’t have these unusual attributes, except for T-Nation of course, where everyone and their mother is bold and assertive).

Cousin: Port authority cop. NOT exceedingly intellectual. Middle class income. Ambitious? I don’t know. Overall a good guy. LOVES his time off and his benefits. Loves his fiance.

Best friend since childhood: Social worker. LOVES his job and raves about his education. Far from rich. Has a wife he loves. Takes his job very seriously. A great friend who I love like a brother!

Good friend: UPS man. Loves job and takes it seriously. Has fiance he loves. NOT exceedingly intellectual or academic, but does have a pretty good grasp on how the world works and what’s happening. A great friend who I love like a brother!

Uncle: I consider him more of a father than my own EXTREMELY NEGLIGENT father. Busts his ass for his wife and kids. In his store six days a week without fail, even when things are very slow and it felt like the world was caving in on him in this goddamn recession! He has gone out of his way for… god, I can’t even count how many times! Very, VERY responsible person.

Mother: Worked as a teacher for 30 yrs with NO gaps! No lateness! Almost no absenteeism in 30 yrs!!! I’m not gonna get all weepy about this and tell how much she has sacrificed for me and my bro because of the negligent person described above.

Why do I share this here? Because of what I said above–people constantly saying this world is filled with negligent, lazy jagoffs. Perhaps in this way I’m NOT cynical (despite the fact that most on here think I am) because I’m not exposed to so many lazy, inconsiderate people.

However, I WILL continue to say that these people are AVERAGE because they’re average in intellect and physical ability. Well, let me take that back a bit. Some of those I listed above are highly intelligent. But they’re not extraordinary. After all, only T-folks are.

Thank god I’m almost done with some annoying shit in 3 weeks. I can start a blog and website and if you people care to engage in talk about nutrition and exercise and life in it, we can.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:16am

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

And I’m so sick and tired of the criticism of average.

[/quote]

That is because of your perspective of it.

Working as a bar back or an AA doesn’t make you average. Putting in zero fucking effort to do a good job, or improve as a person, within your personal means, makes you “average.”

“Average” makes the world a shitty place.

If people put more effort into things, everything, the world would be a better place. Instead we have people that sit back and become complacent and content. Divorce rates are over 50% dude…

You don’t need to make millions to be someone, shit you can make $12,000 a year and be someone. You don’t need books written about you to be extrodinary. You don’t need to do anything other than be the best fucking AA you can be. That makes you better than average. If more people made an effort to be better than they were yesterday, the world would be a better place. [/quote]

What beans said. I hope to never be average.
[/quote]

Congratulations. I’ve come to the point where I don’t know what average means after people confusing the shit out of me. [/quote]

Apparently average has somehow been confused with not working hard. I agree that people should strive to be the best they can be individually but to simply state striving for this suddenly makes you above average is retarded.

There really is nothing with being average, and this thread has basically turned into a hate for people interested in “general fitness”
[/quote]

EXACTLY! Please see the definitions I listed above!

debraD · August 18, 2010, 4:23am

Most people I know do zero fitness so from where I’m standing just staying reasonable fit is above average. I guess that while average has a very clear definition, it loses meaning when applied to totally different groups. For work ethic most people coast and do the bare minimum. I think that’s fine though because everyone has different priorities. For example I know a guy who coasts at work but is a mma fighter on his time off. Average at work but not everywhere in his life.

But it’s all semantics I suppose.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:28am

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

And I’m so sick and tired of the criticism of average. WAKE UP CALL FOLKS: MOST PEOPLE don’t even have the raw genetics (eg, athletic ability, IQ) and characteristics to be above average (hyperenergetic versus dull, hard-drivenness versus laziness, energy versus fatigue. And don’t tell me people can BECOME hard driven; you’re laid back or you’re hard driven) What do we do with them? Kill them? Throw them off a fucking cliff? They actually fill job spots in this society that are needed (eg, secretary, many civil service jobs).

[/quote]

Do you really see it as that black or white? You can’t become hard driven if you were laid back in the past? I nearly failed out of undergrad because I was lazy and liked drinking more than going to class. 9 years later I went to grad school for my Masters, got a 3.9 and ironically an offer to teach a course as well as an offer to be an unpaid adviser for incoming students.

I don’t criticize the average. To each it’s own. But I’ll be damned if I accept it for myself. This goes for all aspects of my life. [/quote]

OK, I was wrong about that. The way I put it was wrong. perhaps very wrong now that I read it again. You can realize the mistakes of your ways (eg, being lazy and then correcting that and becoming hard driven). It’s happened to me. I was negligent and a procrastinator in my past. That caused me problems! So I had to correct that if I didn’t want undue stress and failure in my life.

There are many people who have turned their lives around–said to themselves, “I’m not gonna live like this anymore!:” and went out and did something!

Again, refer to the definitions above. We have different views on average! YOU can say you won’t settle for average, but you very well might be pretty average! Is this an insult to you? Not at all. I have no benefit in insulting you. It’s just my interpretation of what average is!

And I’ve said before, in order for this world to run smoothly, MOST people in it have to be average. It’s actually just the way MOTHER NATURE made it so that this world wouldn’t be RIDICULOUS!

Just imagine a whole world of little baby Robert Goddards, Herman Oberths, Michael Jordans, Bill Gateses, Dorian Yateses, Usain Bolts, William Shockleys, and Benjamin Franklins. It would be really great, considering we’d have nothing but the most ambitious of people existing and running in completely opposite directions and trying to one-up each other. Things would run so smoothly! NOT!

And I don’t like hearing (because of my definitions of average) that you can be above average because of your mindset. Well, perhaps you can work hard and be a little more responsible than you co-workers who fold clothes at the GAP, but in the grand scheme of things, folding clothes is a low level skill compared to the skills needed to succeed in medicine, mathematics, engineering, physics, and athletics!

And with that being said, I’m so glad I’m part of a community with a fucking roster of extraordinary people. Makes me feel lulzy!

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:31am

[quote]mallen5 wrote:

[quote]jhng wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

BBB[/quote]

Actually, what I observed is that generally chicks in the more mature age group (late twenties to maybe early thrities), no matter they look hot or not, tend to look more than just hard bodies. Sure that extra beef would help, but seems like it wouldnt have the same ‘wow’ effect on younger chicks.[/quote]

You might be right, but I feel like it might have more of an effect, because “wow” bodies are becoming fewer and far between in that age group. [/quote]

MAYBE! But it’s also because MOST women don’t give a rat’s ass about muscles.

Professor_X · August 18, 2010, 4:48am

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]mallen5 wrote:

[quote]jhng wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

BBB[/quote]

Actually, what I observed is that generally chicks in the more mature age group (late twenties to maybe early thrities), no matter they look hot or not, tend to look more than just hard bodies. Sure that extra beef would help, but seems like it wouldnt have the same ‘wow’ effect on younger chicks.[/quote]

You might be right, but I feel like it might have more of an effect, because “wow” bodies are becoming fewer and far between in that age group. [/quote]

MAYBE! But it’s also because MOST women don’t give a rat’s ass about muscles.
[/quote]

Bullshit. Most women in their 30’s don’t have much to choose from. Do you honestly believe that if the average single woman of 30-35+ ran into someone making six figures, made them laugh, wasn’t a criminal but had big muscles that this would be a turn off of any kind?

Look at most guys over 30. You would be hard pressed outside of maybe some place like Miami or Muscle Beach in Cali to find even 5% who look anything like what we are discussing…even though that age group are the types of women filling male strip clubs where the guys look like bodybuilders.

therajraj · August 18, 2010, 4:40am

^^Exactly. The world needs people to work in the hotels, bust tables, drive busses, work in factories, cut grass etc…

College is not for everyone. There’s this stigma in society that if you don’t go to college somehow you are a loser.

That’s one of the reasons I HATE the expression “be a leader not a follower.” As if everyone is supposed to lead and it is somehow wrong to be a follower. Retarded.

ronaldo7 · August 18, 2010, 4:41am

Since this is a bodybuilding forum I will use physical fitness as an example of NOT being average.

Anyone can get a job, anyone can go to school, anyone can have friends, anyone can go out to clubs, anyone can drink alcohol and smoke weed.

NOT everyone can have the dedication to be in the gym 5-6 days a weeks for at least an hour, for years.

NOT everyone has the dedication to eat healthier foods and lots of it.

NOT everyone has the dedication and determination to not give a fuck about what people say when you tell them you don’t drink much alcohol if any or when you deny that slice of cake.

NOT everyone has the dedication to get the adequate amount of sleep so they can attack the weights the next day at the gym.

Now you might say “well that is your goal, to be fit and sexy bla bla” but as someone else mentioned, what man or woman doesn’t want an attractive physique?

This is how I see it and this is why I don’t consider my self average.

therajraj · August 18, 2010, 4:43am

My last post was referring to Brick’s post

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:44am

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:
Brick,

Your post really got me thinking. After toying with weights since I was 16 and reading better and applying principles when I was only 28 (as in I waited so long to get it in gear). It’s only now at 32, this past two months that I’ve been taking this more seriously, which means I cleaned up diet, enrolled in a specific gym that gives me guidance on training, a place to train and nutrition program. I’m finally “getting” what more intense people on this forum are thinking, what decisions they are making and why they are making those decisions. I’ve always been obsessive and it’s always achieved my goals (in work, in love, in the gym). Now that I have this driven passion I’m not ready to give it up just yet.

Balance - for me I see this as weigh up between balancing fitness/BB/weight training and the rest of your life. But it’s also true that everything you do outside of the gym will affect your performance in the gym. So it’s not mutually exclusive, it’s “this” AND “that” not “this” OR “that”.

Discipline - reflecting in my personality, having clear boundaries, clear restrictions, clear structured schedules, workouts, meal plans works best for me. Have done Talent Development for over 3 years I know that people think differently and knowing how you think should be the number one aim so anyone can work out how to run their mind and run their life. I will now take the sacrifice of not meeting other people socially so that I can spend more time with family, gym and rest. I wasn’t like that before where I would use an excuse to skip gym and go do something else fun. Now I realise the fun is in the gym, it’s working towards a goal and feeling good as a result of that. I guess I washed social events like that out of my system, keep a close group of friends and try to link to family around the world as much as possible.

Priorities - I guess it all boils down to this. I’ve had to prioritise my life better lately. If I don’t pick up and clean up my health then I won’t live to see 60, I have a history of Type 2 Diabetes and slowly my body was/is breaking down. I was a fool for not doing something about it earlier and not putting my health as a priority. Without prioritising this I would have let myself slide. There were two articles I read this week, one from Cressey and one from Romaniello both discussing how disciplined they were, eating clean etc. And I was like “fuck, what am I doing with my life?, why do I have this shitty opinion that I can eat what I want, train and look good?”. Focus on my career, raise a family (I am married happily for 6 years) and achieve good to great things with the Iron, be healthier each year, spend as much time as I can with my family around the world and give time only to my close friends, travel more, learn more. I now see I wasted parts of my life on shit that doesn’t matter when I should have been asking better questions like “what’s most important now?” and “is this a priority?”

All of the above is just an opinion, it’s not directed at you Brick, the few posts (maybe 6 or so) I’ve read of yours I’ve always found you to be intelligent, insightful and lucid. I guess your post is speaking from personal experiences and personal incidents and since I don’t know much about either I can’t say you’re right or wrong except to say you got me thinking more into this topic. Thank you.[/quote]

Thanks for your your post.

I think you should read my other posts in the bodybuilding and nutrition sections too. I USED to be very hardcore with this, but choose not to now, and as I said in my posts in this thread, people make oversimplifications on life in response to some of my posts.

And unless people start showing me their magic in not needing sleep or being incapable of feeling fatigue like a fucking Superhero, I want to know how they’re successful at EVERYTHING that tickles their fancy considering they know how to juggle things so well.

Show me how to do it, and I’ll try it out a bit! I’m sure some people on here can and HAVE managed to balance social life, romantic life, finance/career–all of it! For MOST people I see, it doesn’t work that way because of time and energy required to succeed in one or a few of them at a time!

I’ll give an example! I PERSONALLY need (I don’t give a shit what others need) 7 to 8 hrs to function my best at work, which is more important than lifting or running or whatever! I go to work at 10. So because I actually give a shit still, I prepare my own breakfast of a veggie and cheese egg white omelet with some oatmeal or whole grain waffles and a side of fruit. This takes some preparation and cleaning. So I get up at 8 and go to bed at 12 or 1. I get to work at 10 and work til 6, and sometimes a bit later depending on what needs to be done. Sometimes I might get a call from a buddy I haven’t seen in awhile or decide I want to go on a date or when I was with a woman seriously before, decide that I will do just that after work.

This sort of situation (time versus sleep versus priority versus work) leaves little room for the gym that day. So I forgo the gym! Does this mean I constantly value recreation, fun, and women over the gym? NO! Because if I continue to do that (eg, keep missing) I will lose my health and fitness and physique!

On the flipside, if I keep rejecting social and romantic opportunities – as I DID when I was HARDCORE – I will be left few opportunities in the future, which will totally come to hit me in the ass later – which is EXACTLY what happened when I was more hardcore! Eventually people said, “Fuck this guy!” and didn’t invite me to much of anything. And that level of commitment – not missing workouts, not missing meals, unwavering determination-- IS what’s necessary to get very strong for MOST people–even at the top!

So, it very well may be that that circumstance annoyed and scared (I know, a T-SIN, being scared-no one on this board has those emotions) me into thinking that I’d eventually become friendless and womanless if I kept that sort of shit up!

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:46am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]mallen5 wrote:

[quote]jhng wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

BBB[/quote]

Actually, what I observed is that generally chicks in the more mature age group (late twenties to maybe early thrities), no matter they look hot or not, tend to look more than just hard bodies. Sure that extra beef would help, but seems like it wouldnt have the same ‘wow’ effect on younger chicks.[/quote]

You might be right, but I feel like it might have more of an effect, because “wow” bodies are becoming fewer and far between in that age group. [/quote]

MAYBE! But it’s also because MOST women don’t give a rat’s ass about muscles.
[/quote]

Bullshit. Most women over 35 don’t have much to choose from. Do you honestly believe that if the average single woman of 35+ ran into someone making six figures, made them laugh, wasn’t a criminal but had big muscles that this would be a turn off of any kind?

Look at most guys over 35. You would be hard pressed outside of maybe some place like Miami or Muscle Beach in Cali to find even 5% who look anything like what we are discussing…even though that age group are the types filling male strip clubs where the guys look like bodybuilders.[/quote]

Muscles don’t hurt. But they are not necessary. I’ve been 245, and now I’m 210. I attract more women now. I don’t think it’s because I’m particularly more likable at this weight. It’s that my lifestyle has become more flexible.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:49am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]mallen5 wrote:

[quote]jhng wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

BBB[/quote]

Actually, what I observed is that generally chicks in the more mature age group (late twenties to maybe early thrities), no matter they look hot or not, tend to look more than just hard bodies. Sure that extra beef would help, but seems like it wouldnt have the same ‘wow’ effect on younger chicks.[/quote]

You might be right, but I feel like it might have more of an effect, because “wow” bodies are becoming fewer and far between in that age group. [/quote]

MAYBE! But it’s also because MOST women don’t give a rat’s ass about muscles.
[/quote]

Bullshit. Most women over 35 don’t have much to choose from. Do you honestly believe that if the average single woman of 35+ ran into someone making six figures, made them laugh, wasn’t a criminal but had big muscles that this would be a turn off of any kind?

Look at most guys over 35. You would be hard pressed outside of maybe some place like Miami or Muscle Beach in Cali to find even 5% who look anything like what we are discussing…even though that age group are the types filling male strip clubs where the guys look like bodybuilders.[/quote]

Women aren’t turned off by muscles, although MANY are NOT into the IFBB or top NPC sort of physiques. At least that’s what I gather from women I know.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:50am

“Being attracted to” is also different than “being able to live with”. Many women find muscles attractive, but at the same time don’t like the RELIGION of bodybuilding.

sam_sneed1 · August 18, 2010, 4:50am

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

Again, refer to the definitions above. We have different views on average! YOU can say you won’t settle for average, but you very well might be pretty average! Is this an insult to you? Not at all. I have no benefit in insulting you. It’s just my interpretation of what average is!

! [/quote]

I don’t take it as an insult at all. But by your definitions of average:

ex:

approximating the statistical norm or average or expected value; “the average income in New England is below that of the nation”; “of average height for his age”; “the mean annual rainfall”
an intermediate scale value regarded as normal or usual; “he is about average in height”; “the snowfall this month is below average”

…I actually don’t believe that I am average. I don’t mean the following to sound like boasting but:

The average American doesn’t have a Masters degree. Graduating with a 3.9 put’s me even further from average.

The average gym goer doesn’t get to 3 plate bench press within a year. Before my injury, I got to 240 lbs at 6’ tall within about 15 months. I got compliments from alot of people about how my body changed so I’d say my progress was above average there as well. At my reunion, most people thought I’d been working out for years.

Income wise, my salary is higher than the median for entire households in NJ let alone per capita.

Now I don’t see myself at the head of the pack yet, but I think I’ve set myself apart from the average based on your definitions.

Professor_X · August 18, 2010, 4:51am

[quote]therajraj wrote:
^^Exactly. The world needs people to work in the hotels, bust tables, drive busses, work in factories, cut grass etc…

College is not for everyone. There’s this stigma in society that if you don’t go to college somehow you are a loser.

That’s one of the reasons I HATE the expression “be a leader not a follower.” As if everyone is supposed to lead and it is somehow wrong to be a follower. Retarded. [/quote]

EVERYONE doesn’t have the genetics to build HUGE muscles.

EVERYONE doesn’t have the drive to become an engineer or a nurse.

EVERYONE doesn’t have the commitment to train 5+ days a week every week.

I personally have no desire to be like EVERYONE. No one is in the dark about people needing to be cashiers or floor sweepers. Hell, I swept the grounds at AstroWorld (six flags) as my first job…but that wasn’t my GOAL in life. It was a means to an end.

You seem to simply be accepting lesser simply because that is an option.

No, this site isn’t about that.

Professor_X · August 18, 2010, 4:54am

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]mallen5 wrote:

[quote]jhng wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

BBB[/quote]

Actually, what I observed is that generally chicks in the more mature age group (late twenties to maybe early thrities), no matter they look hot or not, tend to look more than just hard bodies. Sure that extra beef would help, but seems like it wouldnt have the same ‘wow’ effect on younger chicks.[/quote]

You might be right, but I feel like it might have more of an effect, because “wow” bodies are becoming fewer and far between in that age group. [/quote]

MAYBE! But it’s also because MOST women don’t give a rat’s ass about muscles.
[/quote]

Bullshit. Most women over 35 don’t have much to choose from. Do you honestly believe that if the average single woman of 35+ ran into someone making six figures, made them laugh, wasn’t a criminal but had big muscles that this would be a turn off of any kind?

Look at most guys over 35. You would be hard pressed outside of maybe some place like Miami or Muscle Beach in Cali to find even 5% who look anything like what we are discussing…even though that age group are the types filling male strip clubs where the guys look like bodybuilders.[/quote]

Muscles don’t hurt. But they are not necessary. I’ve been 245, and now I’m 210. I attract more women now. I don’t think it’s because I’m particularly more likable at this weight. It’s that my lifestyle has become more flexible. [/quote]

Most average looking women would be intimidated by someone who looks like synergy on this site. That doesn’t mean they don’t find someone like that attractive. It means they can’t see themselves with someone like that.

Most average women don’t workout. Most don’t even try to stay in shape aside from the diet of the week. if that is what you like, conforming to “normal” is easy. Simply stop standing out so much.

That doesn’t mean you instantly became a “10” chick magnet.

It usually just means now all of those “4’s” and “5’s” don’t feel intimidated any longer.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:56am

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

Again, refer to the definitions above. We have different views on average! YOU can say you won’t settle for average, but you very well might be pretty average! Is this an insult to you? Not at all. I have no benefit in insulting you. It’s just my interpretation of what average is!

! [/quote]

I don’t take it as an insult at all. But by your definitions of average:

ex:

approximating the statistical norm or average or expected value; “the average income in New England is below that of the nation”; “of average height for his age”; “the mean annual rainfall”
an intermediate scale value regarded as normal or usual; “he is about average in height”; “the snowfall this month is below average”

…I actually don’t believe that I am average. I don’t mean the following to sound like boasting but:

The average American doesn’t have a Masters degree. Graduating with a 3.9 put’s me even further from average.

The average gym goer doesn’t get to 3 plate bench press within a year. Before my injury, I got to 240 lbs at 6’ tall within about 15 months. I got compliments from alot of people about how my body changed so I’d say my progress was above average there as well. At my reunion, most people thought I’d been working out for years.

Income wise, my salary is higher than the median for entire households in NJ let alone per capita.

Now I don’t see myself at the head of the pack yet, but I think I’ve set myself apart from the average based on your definitions.[/quote]

So be some of these definitions and because of you providing me with information, you are above average in some areas of life.

So therfore, I’m also short changing myself by considering myself average. According to your information, I’m not average either. I have above average income, will be done with my Masters in September with a 3.8 average, and I probably have a 115+ IQ, as do most Jews.

So by definition, I should stop short changing myself, and consider myself part of the T-roster of outrageous human beings.

Bricknyce · August 18, 2010, 4:58am