Sacrifice Versus Reward

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

How so? I can go to Corona Flushing Meadows Park here in Queens, put on skates, and play hockey. I can walk up the block to shoot hoops and play baseball. I can also join a weekend football league.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

What % of posters on these forums do you think actually compete in bodybuilding or strength sports?[/quote]

I’m confident that the majority participate in bodybuilding training and/or strength training.

The actual “competition” aspect in these sports is secondary to challenging oneself in the gym on a daily basis.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive.

Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL).

Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Great. Fucking. Post.

I would add a #5 to the above list, though, and it could be only one word: consistency. Do the above 5 consistently and you WILL get results.

Whether or not one wants to make the sacrifices necessary to wring the other 5-10% of results out by micro-managing everything is one’s own choice, but the obsession over every little detail is just not needed in most cases (actually competing on stage being one of those cases).

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

How so? I can go to Corona Flushing Meadows Park here in Queens, put on skates, and play hockey. I can walk up the block to shoot hoops and play baseball. I can also join a weekend football league. [/quote]

The vast majority of bodybuilding fans lift weights to improve their physiques, while the vast majority of NFL, NBA, NHL fans do not participate in the respective sports.

Participatory sports and spectator sports are commonly defined terms.

Brick, this is why this site is filled with 15-22 y.o’s. They still dream of ultra muscular physiques and don’t have to focus their energy on building wealth or raising a family. That’s why this sites does well with product sales. Once you’re older and your priorities change, you realize that you can have a pretty nice physique with maybe 3 hrs of weights and a little energy systems work per week. We don’t need to spend 7 or 8 hrs/week to gain another 5 or 10% of aesthetics body image wise.

If you really like training, compete, or have goals of being huge, that’s fine. You’re serious about looking and feeling super fucking strong. I am serious about raising a well to do family and retiring on a beach.

When your 60 and look back at your life will you be happy with the choices you’ve made? Did you need to spend all that money and time in the gym? I’d rather spend that time and money on my family and building wealth.

Before I get attacked by an over weight constant bulker, let me say that nobody cares what you think. The 16 y.o’s who worship you may, but no one with a mortgage gives a fuck.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive.

Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL).

Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Excellent post. Normally I pretty much disagree with what you write (though I don’t say so, because I only mildly disagree), but this I can get on board with.

BBB[/quote]

Ha! Me too.

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
45 minutes to double stacks.

You guys suck. : ( [/quote]

Since you brought it up, I may leave early from work just to get me some double-stacks before I coach baseball.

For wiw, when I get my double stacks I throw away the bottom buns from each and put them together to make one delicious burger. Damn SkyNett, now I’m craving Wendy’s. Thanks alot :wink:

Lol…double stacks away boys!!

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What is exactly is General Fitness?

Exercise without specificity?

[/quote]

crossfit!!! dun dun duuuuuuuun!!!

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I thought this would be a good post. It has to do with nutrition AND lifting. I decided to post it in here and not the bodybuilding section because I am now an “in shape” guy, lift only three times per week with TBT or upper-lower splits, and follow a rather ordinary, softcore diet (3 square meals and 2 snacks).

I’ve spoken on return versus investment before and would like to know where others stand on the matter. Like I said, I gave up hardcore for “in shape” living because the return on investment was interfering in other areas of life, especially time in the gym and NEVER or SELDOMLY wavering from the schedule. Well, eating and preparation also interfered, but not as much.

For an example, now if I miss meals or workouts (which really doesn’t happen as much as I might portray here), I DON’T get pissed off. If I have to see my friend who I haven’t seen in months after work, I go see him. If I have a date during the week, I miss the gym. I even hit some of my macronutrient needs with less-than-stellar sources now. I might have some baked potato chips or whole wheat pretzels instead of brown rice or potatoes. I might wind up having more cheat meals than I planned to because I was out having fun with people.

I would say right now my level of commitment and sacrifice is 7 on a 10 scale. Therefore, I get a 7 in results [return on investment (ROI)]. However, I’m now experiencing greater satisfaction in other areas of life. Example: I am willing to give a 10 in investment to work, social life, a woman, and recreation, but not in the gym, track, on the road, or with my diet.

My current practices are (repeat: NOT!!!) recommended for people want EXCELLENT results in the quickest time possible! I am simply starting an adult conversation with the more friendly and reasonable topic that I’ve pondered over for the past year because in this past year I’ve done a great deal of changing and maturing. NO, working out less is NOT maturing, but it was maturing that made me change priorities in life.

(I must emphasize words such as NOT and NO because some people on here are very sensitive and/or don’t interpret writing sometimes)

I also think this is important to discuss because I’ve seen quite a few people come up with intriguing posts in which they discuss being dead broke or extremely tight with money, yet still ask us our opinions of whether to get cheaper alternatives or NOT buy supplements at all. Every time I see one of those posts that go something like this, “I have 2 bucks in the bank, just graduated school, got no job, but am wondering if Gatorade or juice is as good as Surge; I’m getting paid tomorrow, but I might blow a good amount on Alpha Male and Surge,” I can’t help but think to myself, “Buddy, when you’re broke-ass broke, you don’t think of fucking supplements - and maybe not even muscles!”[/quote]

Excellent post.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

How so? I can go to Corona Flushing Meadows Park here in Queens, put on skates, and play hockey. I can walk up the block to shoot hoops and play baseball. I can also join a weekend football league. [/quote]

Brick come to the darkside, that would be the Over 35 lifter section, we all do 5/3/1 and smoke cigars, dip snuff, drink beer and expensive whiskey. I thought the GAL section was also a place for non-BB stuff, but to each their own.

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

How so? I can go to Corona Flushing Meadows Park here in Queens, put on skates, and play hockey. I can walk up the block to shoot hoops and play baseball. I can also join a weekend football league. [/quote]

Brick come to the darkside, that would be the Over 35 lifter section, we all do 5/3/1 and smoke cigars, dip snuff, drink beer and expensive whiskey. I thought the GAL section was also a place for non-BB stuff, but to each their own. [/quote]

Is 29 (almost 30) close enough? The Over 35 lifter section sounds like me.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

The vast majority of bodybuilding fans lift weights to improve their physiques, while the vast majority of NFL, NBA, NHL fans do not participate in the respective sports.

Participatory sports and spectator sports are commonly defined terms.
[/quote]

You just make this shit up and throw it out there as fact. You have absolutely NO WAY of proving that and the burden of proof is on the one making the claim (you)

So stop making such outrageous claims that you pull out of your ass.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

How so? I can go to Corona Flushing Meadows Park here in Queens, put on skates, and play hockey. I can walk up the block to shoot hoops and play baseball. I can also join a weekend football league. [/quote]

The vast majority of bodybuilding fans lift weights to improve their physiques, while the vast majority of NFL, NBA, NHL fans do not participate in the respective sports.

Participatory sports and spectator sports are commonly defined terms.
[/quote]

And because the vast majority do not, I can’t take part myself everyday? I can go to Alley Pond Park and play tennis and volleyball EVERYDAY of the year! I can also run a marathon, an event also watched on TV screens during Olympics (training to even COMPLETE a marathon, let alone do OK, would take grueling work 6 to 7 days per week!)

And again, I want to know why because I follow bodybuilding I’m quasi-required to still want to partake in a bodybuilding regimen and am somehow “getting in the way” of those who are bodybuilding! How am I getting in the way? Am I crippling people? Am I threatening at gunpoint - telling them not to go to a gym, else I’ll blast them if I see them in a gym? Am I bribing gym owners into booting out jacked dudes?

Anyway, why would any sane person get in someone’s way in accomplishing ANYTHING?

Chris: Do you go to bodybuilding shows regularly and seen the amount of schleps/schlubs that look ordinary on a good day but still like following the sport – or maybe even just participating in online fitness forums (hint).

SKy: Have you hit up Cheeburger Cheeburger in Plainview? I couldn’t breathe after eating there.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
this is a good post/topic/thread.

I’m not gonna get hyoooooge. I dont really want to get hyooooooge. I’m 5’11" and 210 right now and I dont really care to be much bigger than that to be honest. I enjoy playing a lot of rec Basketball and Football in my spare time which definitely isnt optimal for pure mass gaining. My goals are to look good/better than 95% of the people out there (which I think I already do)

I work out hard so that I can have desert when I want it. Or so I can go out and have beers, pizza and wings with the guys whenever I feel like it. I’m never going to make a living off of my physique and I know that. I just wanna look good, feel good and be athletic while also having fun and doing what I want.

no one likes that guy who eats a piece of cake and then has to go run 5 miles the next day… thats stuff that insecure highschool cheerleader girls do[/quote]
Hey man, if you go over 210 i will gladly take the extra pounds from you :wink: lol.

Anyways, it does feel good to be able to go out and party when an occasion comes up and not have to worry about it. Also, restaurant food taste really damn good when your used to eating potatoes/eggs/hamburger/oatmeal and drinking water all the time.

It’s like a double win, other people like it but your really getting enjoyment out of the taste.
[/quote]

hahahah exactly! I like going out for food/drinks too much. Id rather have a couple beers tonight and then maybe just double up on the rowing machine or jump ropes the next day at the gym. Or if I really do it up big I’ll hit the pool and swim half a mile. Definitely burning off a 12 pack by swimming that much lol
[/quote]
lol this is funny.

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
If you really like training, compete, or have goals of being huge, that’s fine. You’re serious about looking and feeling super fucking strong. I am serious about raising a well to do family and retiring on a beach.
[/quote]

Are the two mutually exclusive? Is it impossible to be big, strong, and financially successful with a good family life?

I don’t know if you’re talking about someone trying to become a pro or what, but that doesn’t sit right with me. I understand if you’re talking about the guys that live in their vans and work shit jobs just so they can buy food and drugs to become the next Arnold. I get that.

I don’t think my own approach could really be described as extreme anyhow, as there are many sacrifices that I’m not willing to make in pursuit of strength and size. I’m just wondering what you think is so extreme that it requires sacrificing everything to get there.

Also keep in mind that there are many sacrifices that men make in the pursuit of raising a “well-to-do” family and acquiring a beach-front retirement home. Excessive financial ambition can be just as damaging as what we’re talking about here.

I think that the best anyone can hope for is to achieve some semblance of balance in their life between health, relationships, financial security, and being awesome (a user-defined criteria, but in this case I’m talking about being big and strong). One man’s balance may not be another’s though, especially across different age groups, which you’ve already pointed out.