Sacrifice Versus Reward

Off Topic
41

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive.

Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL).

Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Simple yet complex.

I popped a semi.

42

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
rather than a 365-day/year pre-contest diet, super Bulgarian conjugate training program with a 20 character acronym for a name, and consuming (.0028x lbm grams of xyz supplement, mixing with organic hydrolyzed goat casein that’s been blessed by tibetan monks and filtered through the Shroud of Turin, and carbohydrates with a molecular weight just south of that of Uranium) within 17.2 minutes of the last rep of their last set.

[/quote]

Ok, that really made me laugh…lol…

43

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
These forums also made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.[/quote]

Dude, Tim Patterson has told me what direction he would like this site to go in. I am pretty sure I have a firm grasp on that…and what Tim has discussed does not fall in line with what this thread is about.

If someone wants to be less serious, GREAT. I hope they have a great life.

I also hope they stay far out of the way of people who are serious.[/quote]

I’m not against people’s efforts to keep T-Nation a place for serious posters, in fact i’ve seen some rather terrible boards.

I checked out Animal Pak’s forums as I am a fan of some of the BBers they sponsor… It’s filled with 165lbers who want to be 150lbers…

45

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

I mentioned a guy I met a few weeks ago in another thread. 5’8" and 280 lbs of stacked motherfucker who worked a blue collar job (trained in his mechanic’s shirt, too) and subsists off of 3 meals: biscuits and eggs at breakfast, a big sandwich at lunch, and a hearty “home cooked” dinner. I think there are maybe 4 people on this entire website who are qualified to tell him he’s doing it wrong, and all of them have been doing this long enough to know better.[/quote]

This reminds me of Brian Siders, who thankfully, doesn’t follow the “1 Hour Rule” considering he’s one of the strongest people on the planet but lifts for 3 - 4 hrs at a shot.

47

[quote]therajraj wrote:
What is exactly is General Fitness?

Exercise without specificity?

[/quote]

Yes. Exercise intended to keep someone very healthy, but will most likely not give them jaw dropping lifts or a physique worthy of being on the cover of a bodybuilding magazine. ;

48

X: How can we say this issue should not be brought up considering you and Strong have actually made very good posts regarding the issue?

49

Sky: I do care about your junk intake. I picked you up a slice the other day.

50

45 minutes to double stacks.

You guys suck. : (

51

[quote]therajraj wrote:
These forums are made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.[/quote]

Actually, the forums on this site are by and large dedicated to the discussion of building muscle.

The focus is definitely on building muscle, although we don’t necessarily turn our backs on other areas of physical training and performance.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
We don’t have a general fitness section. And I don’t even know if it belongs in the Conditioning or Get a Life Forum. It does deal with nutrition a bit.
[/quote]
We don’t have a general fitness section because Tim doesn’t want a general fitness section. We actually discussed just that in Colorado.[/quote]

This is correct.

We have no desire to turn this into a “fitness” forum.

53

[quote]therajraj wrote:
These forums are made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.[/quote]

If this was true, we would’ve been given a clear reason/benefit for our supplement purchases being publicly broadcasted via our ‘Levels’.

54

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’m with you Brick. I suspect it is due to age and maturity along with a realistic re-assessment of goals, that has caused people like us to ‘take a step back’ from the complete BBing lifestyle and adopt a more user friendly approach.

I used to be a 5-6 times per week trainee, with nutrition and PEDs to match (though never rest; as I train harder, so my para-sympathetic NS becomes less and less active, sadly). Consequently I got up to 225 @8-9% bf with pronounced vascularity.

But once I realised (by working with bthose who have true BB genetics) that my frame (long limbs, short torso) was the very opposite of that od a sucessfull BBer, I reassessed my goals.

Actually I became a little depressed. A lifetime goal (or what I thought was a goal but was really only in my psyche through a process of osmosis - hanging about in gyms too much, lol) was taken away from me, just as another lifetime goal (100kg, 8% bf) was attained.

Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

But other than that, I’m not bothered, plus I love my food, so as I enter my late 30s, I have begun to realise what is truly important - to ME - and I intend to adjust my regimen accordingly.

Having said that, I will admit to regular, constant peptide use (GHRP6) to keep me healthy (it is angioprotective amongst other things) and lean.

Hey, I ‘cheat’, sue me :wink: It’s all a part of my adoption of realistic goals and ‘time-saving’ protocols and methods.

All the best to you and YOUR goals, whom ever you may be!

BBB[/quote]

But wait…you weren’t 'cheating" before?

Look, I had a hamburger last night and do not take some insanely intense approach to eating and hit the gym about 6 days a week. I take time off when needed and eat much of what I simply like to eat only in amounts that help my goals.[/quote]

But that’s because you are eternally bulking form what I gather. Apologies if I’m wrong.

[quote]
I mean, if you were making this much more complicated than that, you had better be a regular competitor or that approach made no sense in the first place.[/quote]

Some of us possess ‘less than robust’ digestive tracts and must compensate accordingly. It can get complicated.

Also, trust me when I say that I have worked with people in far better condition than you and yes, it needs to be complicated in order to get results that take them head and shoulders above the rest of the guys in their class. Well, it does with a national level BBer.

[quote]
Most of you aren’t making the progress to justify such an extreme stance on training and eating in the first place.[/quote]

That’s kind of my point. Even with extreme measures, and at 225, 9%bf, I would never win a show due to my spider-like proportions. So I decided to focus on things I AM good at, rather than on unrealizeable goals.

As I see it, you results are quite impressive, but once you actually get anywhere near competition-ready (if you ever do - I don’t know your goals), you’ll realise that ‘eating the odd hamburger, and lifting heavy shit’ doesn’t cut it.

I’m sure you will lambast me for missing your point or something, so let me save you the trouble… I’m smaller than you so I must know shit.

BBB[/quote]

Correct. If you want to just “tighten up” a bit, then yeah, PORTION CONTROL will work for those who actually have a clue or are well versed in nutrition. If you want to get down to sub %10, you either have to have extremely high energy expenditure like an athlete (in which case you can eat a whole lot of shit a la Michael Phelps and Jeremy Wariner) or dial in like a bodybuider entering a show. The latter can get complicated and takes ongoing monitoring.

55

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Sky: I do care about your junk intake. I picked you up a slice the other day. [/quote]

Thank you Brick. Appreciate it.

I’ll give you a call tonight around 7 or so? After I put my kid to bed.

56

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive.

Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL).

Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Excellent post. Normally I pretty much disagree with what you write (though I don’t say so, because I only mildly disagree), but this I can get on board with.

BBB[/quote]

I have a feeling the things you disagree with me on can be boiled down to a different audience. When I post, I’m talking about the average guy who wants to get bigger and improve his physique to the point where he turns heads at his gym and around town since that’s what I know. I have no first hand knowledge of what it takes to prep a national level bodybuilding competitor, so I don’t comment on it.

The simpler the ends, the simpler the means. There are many on this forum though that aren’t realistic with themselves and haven’t realized that their genetics are limiting their potential goals or that they are still at the stage where they still need to reach the simple goals first.

57

[quote]Mod Brian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
We don’t have a general fitness section. And I don’t even know if it belongs in the Conditioning or Get a Life Forum. It does deal with nutrition a bit.
[/quote]
We don’t have a general fitness section because Tim doesn’t want a general fitness section. We actually discussed just that in Colorado.[/quote]

This is correct.

We have no desire to turn this into a “fitness” forum.[/quote]

Then we won’t have one. And that’s fine.

The topic of Sacrifice versus Reward applies to hardcore endeavors too–and people better be damn well aware of sacrifice involved if they want to be a top bodybuilder (or even a moderately successful competitive one) or powerlifter, MD, CEO, or whatever. This is why I asked X how this topic in general doesn’t apply to us all, hardcore or not!

Marc Dugdale was in fucking tears in a trailer I saw on him on You Tube when discussing his sacrifice versus his reward in bodybuilding. In another clip, Scott Mendelson discusses not going on a damn vacation with his wife, ingesting 40 egg whites per day, his wife spending 100s of dollars per week at Costco, and so on. So it’s not serious of me to address these issues considering a great deal of articles on here feature in their pictures and interviews men who have sacrificed a great deal to be where they’re at.

And just because someoen doesn’t sacrifice as much as the next guy doesn’t mean he doesn’t take fitness and diet seriously.

And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day!

58

I don’t really understand how everyone is arguing my point.

A for-profit company in a competitive market aims to maximize profit by catering to the needs of their customers (i.e. this forum). Not sure how that can be argued.

59

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.

60

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
And I wish all those publications well if they decide to exclude all those ordinary, lackadaiscal men who make up much of their readership and customer list. Same goes for NFL, NBA, and NHL, for which if their fans were to consist of solely competitive athletes themselves, they’d be out of profits in a fucking day! [/quote]

WTF?

Bodybuilding is a participatory sport for the most part, while all the others you mentioned are not.[/quote]

What % of posters on these forums do you think actually compete in bodybuilding or strength sports?