Sacrifice Versus Reward

Off Topic
21

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’m with you Brick. I suspect it is due to age and maturity along with a realistic re-assessment of goals, that has caused people like us to ‘take a step back’ from the complete BBing lifestyle and adopt a more user friendly approach.

I used to be a 5-6 times per week trainee, with nutrition and PEDs to match (though never rest; as I train harder, so my para-sympathetic NS becomes less and less active, sadly). Consequently I got up to 225 @8-9% bf with pronounced vascularity.

But once I realised (by working with bthose who have true BB genetics) that my frame (long limbs, short torso) was the very opposite of that od a sucessfull BBer, I reassessed my goals.

Actually I became a little depressed. A lifetime goal (or what I thought was a goal but was really only in my psyche through a process of osmosis - hanging about in gyms too much, lol) was taken away from me, just as another lifetime goal (100kg, 8% bf) was attained.

Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

But other than that, I’m not bothered, plus I love my food, so as I enter my late 30s, I have begun to realise what is truly important - to ME - and I intend to adjust my regimen accordingly.

Having said that, I will admit to regular, constant peptide use (GHRP6) to keep me healthy (it is angioprotective amongst other things) and lean.

Hey, I ‘cheat’, sue me :wink: It’s all a part of my adoption of realistic goals and ‘time-saving’ protocols and methods.

All the best to you and YOUR goals, whom ever you may be!

BBB[/quote]

Im interested in the peptide use that you mentioned.

22

For me this, is is an all-in or all-out sort of deal. If were to haplessly go to the gym to merely stay in shape it would bore the hell out of me. I NEED to see progression to be content. The sacrifice of avoiding foods that I shouldn’t be eating for my goals, or being stone sober at bars/clubs doesn’t really feel like much of a sacrifice anymore. This lifestyle has basically become a part of who I am.

23

I say don’t turn down a good time but don’t go looking for one is a good rule to go by. If a party is going on that all my friends will be at i’ll bring over a case of bud if i’m asked to come out. If i’m not i won’t go.

After awhile it will add up and you will stop being invited to small gatherings that would be boring anyways. When you do get invited to a big one your gonna have a damn good time because you haven’t seen everybody in over a week or two.

Small little changes like that add up in the long run. Plus you will save money staying at home more often than not, get time to catch up on a book if you read. Learn how to cook a gourmet 3 course meal for that babe down the street once you get enough balls to ask her to come over for dinner. There is a lot you can do to better yourself.

24

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
I say don’t turn down a good time but don’t go looking for one is a good rule to go by.

After awhile it will add up and you will stop being invited to small gatherings…[/quote]

The former is exactly what I did, and the latter is exactly what happened!

And that’s what destroyed my social life and a relationship with a nice woman.

25

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
I wanna get as big as I can…but if your choice is to dial it back at this point in your life, then that’s fine.

I mean, who the fuck should dictate to you what your goals should be, right? [/quote]

No one should…but if this thread gets filled with 50 or more people all agreeing that they don’t take this seriously, then yes, this website is now full of shit and weak people.

Your life is for you to live and for you to prioritize…but this website is not for the lackadaisical…or at least it should not be.

How can we discuss any topic at all in the sense of making real progress if we now have to compensate for all of the people who won’t ever reach any goal beyond “average” and don’t want to work any harder at it?

I ENJOY how I approach training. My eating habits and my training are not some unachievable feat…and that is coming from someone who did go to school and does work full time at a job non-training related.

If YOU don’t want to take this seriously, fine…but why is this a topic on THIS forum?

26

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’m with you Brick. I suspect it is due to age and maturity along with a realistic re-assessment of goals, that has caused people like us to ‘take a step back’ from the complete BBing lifestyle and adopt a more user friendly approach.

I used to be a 5-6 times per week trainee, with nutrition and PEDs to match (though never rest; as I train harder, so my para-sympathetic NS becomes less and less active, sadly). Consequently I got up to 225 @8-9% bf with pronounced vascularity.

But once I realised (by working with bthose who have true BB genetics) that my frame (long limbs, short torso) was the very opposite of that od a sucessfull BBer, I reassessed my goals.

Actually I became a little depressed. A lifetime goal (or what I thought was a goal but was really only in my psyche through a process of osmosis - hanging about in gyms too much, lol) was taken away from me, just as another lifetime goal (100kg, 8% bf) was attained.

Ultimately I realised that there is no point in being as strict as I used to be, to achive the goals I want now. Sure, I want to be in the top 1% of physiques if there was a sudden ‘shirtless emergency’ at work. Sure, I want to carry around the kind of hard physique that would make any girl go ‘wow’.

But other than that, I’m not bothered, plus I love my food, so as I enter my late 30s, I have begun to realise what is truly important - to ME - and I intend to adjust my regimen accordingly.

Having said that, I will admit to regular, constant peptide use (GHRP6) to keep me healthy (it is angioprotective amongst other things) and lean.

Hey, I ‘cheat’, sue me :wink: It’s all a part of my adoption of realistic goals and ‘time-saving’ protocols and methods.

All the best to you and YOUR goals, whom ever you may be!

BBB[/quote]

But wait…you weren’t 'cheating" before?

Look, I had a hamburger last night and do not take some insanely intense approach to eating and hit the gym about 6 days a week. I take time off when needed and eat much of what I simply like to eat only in amounts that help my goals.

I mean, if you were making this much more complicated than that, you had better be a regular competitor or that approach made no sense in the first place.

Most of you aren’t making the progress to justify such an extreme stance on training and eating in the first place.

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
I wanna get as big as I can…but if your choice is to dial it back at this point in your life, then that’s fine.

I mean, who the fuck should dictate to you what your goals should be, right? [/quote]

No one should…but if this thread gets filled with 50 or more people all agreeing that they don’t take this seriously, then yes, this website is now full of shit and weak people.

Your life is for you to live and for you to prioritize…but this website is not for the lackadaisical…or at least it should not be.

How can we discuss any topic at all in the sense of making real progress if we now have to compensate for all of the people who won’t ever reach any goal beyond “average” and don’t want to work any harder at it?

I ENJOY how I approach training. My eating habits and my training are not some unachievable feat…and that is coming from someone who did go to school and does work full time at a job non-training related.

If YOU don’t want to take this seriously, fine…but why is this a topic on THIS forum?[/quote]

And this thread is not for the lackadaisical. If I exercise 5 to 6 times per week, and this is a huge priority for my health and fitness, then I’m not lackadaisical, and neither are others despite the fact that they might look average, or only a bit above average. Others and I still have to invest time and thought into buying and preparing certain foods and setting aside time to do this. This doesn’t mean I don’t take fitness seriously. I certainly do, a) because I love it, and b) because without it, I’ll probably not look average, but pretty lousy, and my health would deteriorate.

Why is it on THIS forum? For the reason I stated above–namely that I don’t care to engage in this conversation with the more hardcore crowd in the bodybuilding section. We don’t have a general fitness section. And I don’t even know if it belongs in the Conditioning or Get a Life Forum. It does deal with nutrition a bit.

How would this website be full of shit if there are people who regularly visit it who love AND ENGAGE in fitness activiites (lifting, running, whatever) AND buy products and simply enjoy talking shop with one another. I don’t consider that full of shit.

I love watching track and field and attending events they have here in NYC and LI. I like visiting track and field websites. Do I now need to not visit them because I don’t have the ablility or inclination to spend 4 to 6 hrs/d in the weight room and on the track like Usain Bolt and Jeremy Wariner do.

I have NO intention of arguing with you or anyone else. I’m still interested in SOME progress or maintenance (which DOES take work because it actually requires working out).

I still attend bodybuilding shows and read mags and talk shop with people. I’m also curious as to why bodybuilding is the only sport in which fans are quasi-required to engage in the same extreme practices as competitors. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of SCHLUBS regularly fill up Yankee Stadium and Citi Field here, and they don’t have a problem with one another because less than 1 percent has any significant athletic ability.

28

And as I’ve said before, sometimes directlty to you, I’m aware of and respect your background and achievements and what I believe to be a very high degree of intelligence and competence. What can I say? You’re better at multi-tasking than I am. Perhaps you are. Perhaps you’re willing to give up other areas of investment. I really don’t know. I do know I’m taking this fitness and nutrition (my profession IS nutrition)thing with me for life. I consider that serious.

29

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Most of you aren’t making the progress to justify such an extreme stance on training and eating in the first place.[/quote]

Which is EXACTLY why I recommend what I said before: be consistent with an “OK” routine for LIFE, rather han burn out with practices that will not reap much reward anyway. This is exactly how I deal with people in nutrition. There is no sense in following an optimal diet if it can’t be followed in the long run and when an “OK” diet might be followed for LIFE. This is also why I highly recommend The Bull’s Eye Diet by a former a professor of mine, Dr. Josephine Connolly Schoonen.

30

These forums are made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.

31

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Look, I had a hamburger last night and do not take some insanely intense approach to eating and hit the gym about 6 days a week. I take time off when needed and eat much of what I simply like to eat only in amounts that help my goals.

[/quote]

Dude, I just did squats and deads, chugged down 40 grams of whey in OJ, and at 3 I’m gonna eat two Wendy’s double stacks…Mmmmmmmm…double stacks… ; )

32

Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive.

Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL).

Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.

33

[quote]therajraj wrote:
These forums also made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.[/quote]

Exactly. See my previous posts. That’s part of why this forum will never be full of shit as long as ENOUGH people visit it.

34

[quote]therajraj wrote:
These forums also made for the users of Biotest supplements regardless of their goals or level of seriousness. That’s what their intended purpose is first and foremost.[/quote]

Dude, Tim Patterson has told me what direction he would like this site to go in. I am pretty sure I have a firm grasp on that…and what Tim has discussed does not fall in line with what this thread is about.

If someone wants to be less serious, GREAT. I hope they have a great life.

I also hope they stay far out of the way of people who are serious.

35

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive. Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL). Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Good post…but haven’t I been writing that for ten years here?

You take an extreme approach once you look extremely built. There are way too many jackasses on this site making minimal progress but who have their diet planned out like a massive science experiment.

If the results don’t follow, you are wasting your fucking time…and most really big guys got really big BEFORE they made this some extreme “count every gram” process.

36

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive. Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL). Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Great post Strong. : )

37

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
We don’t have a general fitness section. And I don’t even know if it belongs in the Conditioning or Get a Life Forum. It does deal with nutrition a bit.
[/quote]
We don’t have a general fitness section because Tim doesn’t want a general fitness section. We actually discussed just that in Colorado.

38

So, nobody cares about my impending meal of double stacks? : (

39

What is exactly is General Fitness?

Exercise without specificity?

40

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Here’s my take on this. I’m probably going to catch a fair amount of shit for saying this, but I believe that it’s the truth: much of the sacrifice that people who “live the life” deal with is self inflicted and largely unnecessary. Bodybuilders and all athletes striving for some sort of elite status in their sport tend to be high control individuals and (at least mildly) obsessive. Pareto’s principle definitely applies to the iron game, as really nailing the basics will take you a long way, even as a genetically average trainee. The thing is, the basics, the things that really matter, are not really that demanding when you boil them down to their true necessity. Do you HAVE to eat 6-10 meals each day to be large, muscular, and lean? Not really. (NOTE TO THE COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED: I’m not trying to start a discussion on what is OPTIMAL). Sure, there might be an extra 5% improvement to be squeezed out by micromanaging every aspect of life in terms of bodybuilding-related activities, but is that 5% improvement in your physique OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR LIFE really worth the level of sacrifice that it will require? This comes back to return on investment, and is something that people have to decide for themselves.

Back to Pareto’s principle (80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts), if you start looking at things critically and prioritize your activities on a true ROI basis, you will find that really only a few things are paramount:

  1. reasonably frequent weight training utilizing mainly compound movements along with thoughtfully applied isolation
  2. long-term progression (improvement)
  3. adequate recovery (nothing fancy: getting a decent amount of sleep, not beating yourself into the dirt every session, simple stuff)
  4. adequate caloric intake consisting of nutrient dense foods and a moderate to high protein intake

Thats it! If the self-righteous blowhards and obsessive gram counters on this site who haven’t had the results to make their efforts and obsession a worthwhile investment were to do nothing more than absolutely nail those 4 points and then otherwise LIVE THEIR LIVES for the next 12-24 months, I guarantee that there would be a drastically reduced number of overly vocal, underdeveloped chumps on this website looking for the next magic solution come 2012.

I came to this conclusion myself about 18 months ago after spending the better part of 3 years over analyzing, overthinking, and under-doing. The past year and a half of my life has been both the most productive in the weight room as well as the most productive in terms of the rest of my life compared to any other time since I started lifting weights in 2005.[/quote]

Good post…but haven’t I been writing that for ten years here?

You take an extreme approach once you look extremely built. There are way too many jackasses on this site making minimal progress but who have their diet planned out like a massive science experiment.

If the results don’t follow, you are wasting your fucking time…and most really big guys got really big BEFORE they made this some extreme “count every gram” process.[/quote]

People don’t listen, especially when you don’t tell them what they want to hear. Like I said before, bodybuilding tends to attract mildly obsessive, control-oriented individuals. Those people don’t want to hear that it’s the simple stuff repeated consistently over time that’s going to contribute most to their results rather than a 365-day/year pre-contest diet, super Bulgarian conjugate training program with a 20 character acronym for a name, and consuming (.0028x lbm grams of xyz supplement, mixing with organic hydrolyzed goat casein that’s been blessed by tibetan monks and filtered through the Shroud of Turin, and carbohydrates with a molecular weight just south of that of Uranium) within 17.2 minutes of the last rep of their last set.

What kills me the most about this is that I’ve been around athletes far more elite than anyone on this site, and they still don’t take what you call “the extreme approach”…they just do what got them big and strong in the first place and by some magic, it still works.

I mentioned a guy I met a few weeks ago in another thread. 5’8" and 280 lbs of stacked motherfucker who worked a blue collar job (trained in his mechanic’s shirt, too) and subsists off of 3 meals: biscuits and eggs at breakfast, a big sandwich at lunch, and a hearty “home cooked” dinner. I think there are maybe 4 people on this entire website who are qualified to tell him he’s doing it wrong, and all of them have been doing this long enough to know better.