Roadblock at 165 Bench Press

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I started lifting last year with Stronglifts 5x5, I worked up to a 225x5 squat, 160x5 bench, and 275x5 deadlift. I quit after 4-5 months because I didn’t notice any physical changes, I kept stalling, then I moved and never refocused on training. I started again last April/May after a full year of no lifting, on the same program and starting from scratch. I worked up to a 245 squat, 160 bench, 275 deadlift before I has a minor work related injury that kept me from deadlifting, and forced a deload on squats. I decided to take the time to focus in my bench and experiment with accessory movements. It took through July and some of August to heal enough to squat heavy and attempt deadlifts. In this month where I did high volume upper body accesories, I have visually gained more size than I had been on 5x5, yet my bench didn’t push past 160.

I was attempting to get a little higher frequency in bench and use varied rep ranges throughout the week. Since regaining enough strength and confidence to squat and pull, I have put myself on a higher volume program that focuses on one main lift per day, with some accessory, then an additional two days a week for high rep hypertrophy movements. I love the layout of this routine but I am still not benching more than 160, although it’s only been three weeks. I have worked both my squat and deadlift up to 315 for easy triples (working towards sets of 5), and I’m feeling great about them. But, my bench is STILL at such a pathetic weight. I do have long arms and not the greatest build for pressing, but that’s absolutely no excuse. I’m militant about getting to the gym, and my diet is fine. I’ve gained 21 pounds since beginning earlier this year, eating 3800 calories (recently increased from 3500), and 200g protein. I’m 200lbs at 5’10", a little bit of fat in the handles but definitely not bad. I don’t care about abs, I’m trying to get strong. I haven’t done a form video in awhile but I’ve been told before that my form is alright. It feels jacked up to me, but that could be because of my distaste for the lift and poor body type for it. I will benching heavy on Tuesday and can upload something then.

What are down tips or common things that hold beginners back on bench, besides diet? I’ve watched every ‘how to’ video out there, I go through the cues, staying tight, leg drive, etc, but I’m still so weak. I have done singles up to 190. Are there any tips from knowledgable lifters here, maybe others have struggled with the bench in their earlier days? I feel that once I buckle down on whatever is holding me back and break the roadblock, I’ll start gaining at a decent pace again. The deloads on my 5x5s never did anything, I would stall again at 160.

I’ll get a video on Tuesday. But what can I read, watch, or specific things to watch out for form-wise, or even cues that I may have no heard that might make Tuesday the best it can be?

2

Muscle. You need muscle.

Chest, triceps, shoulders.

From your lifts and stats, you are very likely too fat. Which means you forced your weight gain without consideration for how much muscle mass you were actually putting on.

This may work to see some increases in the lower body lifts but not the bench (after a certain extent). The bench needs MUSCLE.

3

So, is my approach of following the main movement with higher rep accessories the best way to gain muscle? Or is there a better path? I have definitely gained size since I was forced to put deadlifts and squats on the backburner, probably because I was doing a high number of small life’s for 8-12 reps. I tried 15 too but it starts to feel like cardio more than strength training, hah.

The trouble I have on bench is on the bottom, pressing from the chest. Is this a weakness of of shoulders or chest? I can try targeting them with my accessory work.

I’m not worried about the fat gain. I gain roughly a pound a week which has stalled lately, and appearance-wise I look average, not overweight. I am primarily wanting to gain strength, with goals of getting into powerlifting meets when I feel I am strong enough. I have gained some shoulder and chest size, but not much on my arms. I don’t really my with curls and most of my tricep work has ben through presses, incline, bench, overhead, and I’ve recently began using dumbbells too.

I guess I may be on the right track with my newest routine, since it’s more upper body size-focused than the 5x5 I was doing.

4

Dude, you are a beginner, not an intermediate trying to get past a 1.5x bodyweight bench.

You should be able to gain strength consistantly on something like Starting Strength.

I’ll give you the most likely scenerios here:

  1. You overbulked in too short a frame of time. Or your diet is crap.

  2. You did not gain weight consistantly, e.g. 20lbs one month, 3lbs the next, 10lbs in a week, no weight gain the next month…

  3. Your technique sucks.

Try cleaning up your diet.

Post a vid of your bench.

5

You aren’t fat. Not even close. 200# at 5’10 is fine.

I have some guesses.

  1. Your technique sucks. Posting a vid will help to see if this is the one.

  2. Extra hypertrophy work during the week will not add any strength. Only appearance. So if strength is what you want, drop the hypertrophy extras and maybe put in an extra strength day for BP. That would give you 2x per week. If you are eating and resting enough, that should be possible at 160. Speaking of rest…

  3. How is your resting? I don’t just mean getting 8 hours of sleep per night. Is your life stressful? Busy? Frantic? Do you play other sports? Engage in other forms of physical activity that might sap your available pool of energy for recovery?

  4. Sometimes this stuff is simply a mental block. This is near your previous best number. And you ended up quitting around that number too…

6

Thanks for the additional inputs. Yeah, I’m definitely not fat, I’m an average sized guy. I don’t have abs but I don’t have a gut, and I’m not really worried about appearances too much other than muscle mass, enough to actually look like I lift. I’ve gained weight gradually since I started, and my diet is fine.

I’m certain my form is no good. The help I’ve gotten online before basically did nothing, people said it waa okay and moved on. It doesn’t feel right to me though but I can’t pinpoint where I’m missing something. I have experimented with grip width, foot placement, and some other details. Foot placement is still a bit weak for me, I can’t seem to find a good spot that seems intuitive to the lift.

I think I’m resting well. I work a sometimes active job as an electrician apprentice but it’s not too bad, sometimes ride around all day in the work van. I have a regular sleep and food schedule, and I’m not the sort who’s out partying on weekends. I’m not stressed and do no other sports. It could all be mental.

There have been days where I attempt hitting a weight I’ve done before, like 160, and can’t seem to press it. Then I’ll go down in weight and it seems like even 150 or something else will seem difficult because failing the goal weight is a bummer. Who knows?

I can definitely add another heavy bench day. Now I’m benching heavy on Tuesday and then doing reps of 10 on Friday. I can make Friday another 5 rep heavy day. Or maybe one day a little heavier with three triples instead.

Should I scrap my program altogether and get on something proven? I’m tired of the Stronglifts and Starting Strength style 5x5s. But maybe I’m not advanced enough for 531, Cube, or anything like that. I don’t don’t know much about Madcows or Texas Method but those are also 5x5s.

I think my squats are benefitting from only going heavy once a week, then working on form on higher rep days, so if a program has me doing 3x heavy squats that might not be good for me.

7

Well, I gotta tell ya…

I meant “too fat” in the context of gaining more fat than muscle during your bulk, seeing that you are struggling to bench 160lbs despite being 200lbs.

The bench responds best to muscular bodyweight gains. You will have to continue to gain weight while improving technique. If you are fine with that, it’s all good.

5/3/1 is fine for a beginner. Just add another bench day with paused benchs focussing on technique and exploding from the bottom position.

8

5/3/1 is fine. Could start on the 5’s PRO version.

Also, I missed this before but where is Overhead Press in there? OP helps BP.

Make sure to get your technique right for the BP. Check out the Dave Tate article here or vids about how to improve the bench. Even if you aren’t powerlifting, there is lots of good tips in it that will get you thinking about your form correctly.

Shitty technique isn’t a big deal when weights are light. You can overpower the weight. But the heavier it gets, it’s not possible to do that any more. Bad technique wastes a lot of energy as well as increasing risk of injury.

9

As much as everyone will tell you how fast you can put on strength and size it is a myth. To do heavy bench you need a big upper body and building that takes lot’s of time. Specifically you need strong arms and triceps. Guys with bad genetics in that area will struggle on the bench. I am a fairly dedicated lifter (2-4 times a week) and it took me 3 years to get to 255lb bench at a body weight of 185-190. I thought I’d never get there–that’s how slow it was with injuries etc.

Set realistic goals and know that you are going to have to push up heavier and heavier weights to see it increase. Set yourself up in a good cage or on a smith machine and go to failure. On chest days I train bench for 20-25 minutes at the beginning of the session. Heavy reps, light reps, I go by feel. Don’t push your shoulders if they get injured and used decent form. If you raise your back you are cheating.

I do 255lb with my feet up on the bench and my ass flat–any less is not a bench IMO and training this way helps with core stability and balance. Remember for every push movement do an equal pull movement. I used to get shoulder problems from bench and then started doing mass pullups and it went away. Muscle strength needs to be balanced.

10

[quote]T-Fal wrote:
As much as everyone will tell you how fast you can put on strength and size it is a myth. To do heavy bench you need a big upper body and building that takes lot’s of time. Specifically you need strong arms and triceps. Guys with bad genetics in that area will struggle on the bench. I am a fairly dedicated lifter (2-4 times a week) and it took me 3 years to get to 255lb bench at a body weight of 185-190. I thought I’d never get there–that’s how slow it was with injuries etc.

Set realistic goals and know that you are going to have to push up heavier and heavier weights to see it increase. Set yourself up in a good cage or on a smith machine and go to failure. On chest days I train bench for 20-25 minutes at the beginning of the session. Heavy reps, light reps, I go by feel. Don’t push your shoulders if they get injured and used decent form. If you raise your back you are cheating.

I do 255lb with my feet up on the bench and my ass flat–any less is not a bench IMO and training this way helps with core stability and balance. Remember for every push movement do an equal pull movement. I used to get shoulder problems from bench and then started doing mass pullups and it went away. Muscle strength needs to be balanced.[/quote]

I literally fucking threw up at your definition of a bench press

11

[quote]T-Fal wrote:
If you raise your back you are cheating.

I do 255lb with my feet up on the bench and my ass flat–any less is not a bench IMO and training this way helps with core stability and balance.[/quote]

This is not good advice. You’re lucky this is the beginner’s section.

12

I’m doing 3x8 overhead presses after bench on Tuesdays, and then 3x10 later in the week. I’m pressing with leg drive and back arch. It’s not cheating, but since my goals are to enter PL meets down the road, that’s the style of bench I want to learn and train with. I guess BB focused lifters stay flatter and want to get the most from the pecs or something, because I see large guys lifting their feet and staying flat all the time. I’d probably topple sideways if I even attempted that, my legs keep me stable.

I do have one question regarding foot placement. IIRC, Tate’s guides have them pulled them underneath, balls of feet on ground and knees below hips. I think I read that some federations require a lifters feet to be flat on the ground. Is it better to train with flat feet to become accustomed to it, or should I lift with knees down and adjust to flat feet later if I happen to enter a fed that requires it?

Since my diet keeps coming up, I eat 3800 calories, 200g protein, 400g carbs, 70g fats minimum daily. I don’t have much of a sweet tooth and don’t like most greasy fast foods. I eat a lot of plain whole foods because I have boring tastes, a shake if I need it, a salad every day. The worst thing I eat is an occasional protein bar and pizza about once a week. I drink about a half gallon of milk daily, that could be bad, I don’t know, but it’s delicious. I could stand to eat more fruit to be honest. I was very diet conscious as a teenager so I am confident that I’m eating at least decent.

I have the Beyond 531 book but not the original, so I don’t have all the possible templates to look at. It always seemed like a slow profession and too little frequency. But if I added a second bench day, or maybe just add in bench to the overhead press day, and squeezed in a second set of squats somewhere, then I could probably get into the program. I’ll look up that suggested template.

I’ll rewatch some guides and get a video up around this time tomorrow. You dudes are tremendously helpful.

13

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]T-Fal wrote:

I do 255lb with my feet up on the bench and my ass flat–any less is not a bench IMO and training this way helps with core stability and balance. [/quote]

I literally fucking threw up at your definition of a bench press
[/quote]

Lol.

14

This usually gets posted, but since no one has yet:

*Note the lack of feet on the bench while actually bench pressing.

** google for the rest of the series.

15

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]T-Fal wrote:
As much as everyone will tell you how fast you can put on strength and size it is a myth. To do heavy bench you need a big upper body and building that takes lot’s of time. Specifically you need strong arms and triceps. Guys with bad genetics in that area will struggle on the bench. I am a fairly dedicated lifter (2-4 times a week) and it took me 3 years to get to 255lb bench at a body weight of 185-190. I thought I’d never get there–that’s how slow it was with injuries etc.

Set realistic goals and know that you are going to have to push up heavier and heavier weights to see it increase. Set yourself up in a good cage or on a smith machine and go to failure. On chest days I train bench for 20-25 minutes at the beginning of the session. Heavy reps, light reps, I go by feel. Don’t push your shoulders if they get injured and used decent form. If you raise your back you are cheating.

I do 255lb with my feet up on the bench and my ass flat–any less is not a bench IMO and training this way helps with core stability and balance. Remember for every push movement do an equal pull movement. I used to get shoulder problems from bench and then started doing mass pullups and it went away. Muscle strength needs to be balanced.[/quote]

I literally fucking threw up at your definition of a bench press
[/quote]
You only threw up? HELL I died a little inside after reading it.

16

Okay dudes, here’s 155x5. Please rip it apart so I can work on whatever I’m screwing up.

17

can’t really see your shoulders from this angle, as well as your elbow positioning.

Granted that is fine, the biggest drawback to your form, is how you actually lift.

Your eccentric looks rushed and sloppy, as well as your push.

Try rest-pause reps

And your ‘leg drive’, shouldn’t end after your first rep.

18

Can you do 25 pushups(full range of motion, solid plank position) in a row without losing form? If you can’t then that tells you what your problem is.

19

What exactly happens when you try to increase the weight?

20

[quote]Jarvan wrote:
can’t really see your shoulders from this angle, as well as your elbow positioning.

Granted that is fine, the biggest drawback to your form, is how you actually lift.

Your eccentric looks rushed and sloppy, as well as your push.

Try rest-pause reps

And your ‘leg drive’, shouldn’t end after your first rep.
[/quote]

All of these