[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]lunk wrote:
So… has anyone listened to the podcast?[/quote]
Okay I listened to the whole 2+ hour thing. Here’s the cliff notes of what I heard:
They started out defending Hammer Strength machines. They said you can get just as big and strong using machines. Do you agree that you can develop the same level of strength with machines as you can with compound barbell lifts?
Then they spent a while going back and forth arguing over whether Bulgarian split squats were unstable in the frontal or sagittal plane. I wonder how long Ed Coan spent sitting in Quads Gym agonizing over this.
They talked about different growth depending on different muscular subdivision activation for example in the rectus femoris yadda yadda yadda. For fucks sake. Rip never talked about muscle growth. Not even once. So who are they arguing with?
“Mastodons like Doug Hepburn, Jim Williams, Doug Young, Roger Estep, Dorian Yates, Karwoski, Magnusson, and Hamman, have used basic barbell exercises with heavy weights to build strength and muscle, the likes of which have never been produced using exercise machines.” This is a quote from the article which they debated somehow. Because there is no data on someone this big and strong who “just used machines” you can’t prove it’s not possible. Yeah, real useful…
Bret then agrees with Rip about most of the PT hacks out there.
The other guy on the podcast whines about generalizing PT’s.
They argue with Rip over how to rehab injuries. This is probably the area in which they are most correct given their background. Rip is not a PT and does not do rehab. He does strength.
They then go into the bit about muscles firing, except they just agree with what Rip says and argue over the semantics of what they mean when they say “firing”.
John (I think that’s the other guy’s name) is more concerned with academically defining logical fallacies and debating semantics than he is with lifting. This entire podcast literally sounded like a Professor X thread. I’m not sure I can even think of a worse insult than that.
They talked about the vastus medialis for like half an hour before finally ending up basically saying that Rip is completely wrong about the VMO, but that his conclusion of you should mostly just squat was correct and works better than trying to isolate the VMO. So… what was the point of that?
Bret again agrees about all the crappy PT’s out there. The other guy again starts crying about generalization.
John begins citing studies on emg’s and such about muscle activation and results in unilateral vs bilateral exercises. He says they are equally good at building strength. Bret then finds the info and in fact that is completely false. Doing unilateral movements make you better at unilateral movements and doing bilateral movements makes you better at bilateral movements. Whaddya know…
Then John says “well what if I don’t want to squat?” Then don’t! Lol. He also says “Why do I have to be the strongest guy in the weightroom?” First of all that’s a really pathetic attitude, but you don’t have to be that, and you likely never will.
They say “what if your goal is hypertrophy?” I was shocked to hear them make the same mistake you did lunk. If your goal is hypertrophy, stop wasting your time reading things by powerlifters you moron.
I cannot stress this enough, but every other word out of John’s mouth was “fallacy”. He is completely infatuated with this. I’m not sure why he isn’t an English teacher instead of a PT.
They essentially make the argument that, because it hasn’t been scientifically proven, you can’t say that bilateral training is better than unilateral training for powerlifting (still wondering why you even put this topic in the BB section btw). I guess since a world record powerlifter has never been on a diet of nothing but popcorn, we don’t know that eating only popcorn wouldn’t result in the strongest powerlifter ever. Technically correct lol!
Then they say something like “Rippetoe seems to think that the more weight you use, the stronger you are.” Um… well yea. Then they basically agree lol: “in powerlifting yes, and olympic lifting, and strongman. But what if we made a federation that tested three unilateral lifts?” See what I mean about how this reminds me of a Prof X thread?
They say that just because all of the strongest people in the world use bilateral, compound barbell movements, you can’t prove that they couldn’t be even stronger if training with only machines and unilateral lifts. Sure, you can’t prove practically anything lol. They’ve made this argument about three times now. Fact remains that the strongest people in the world all train in a pretty similar way, relatively speaking.
Then on goes more arguing over semantics and discussing the absurdity of using “isolation” as a term to describe lifting movements. I’m sure all the best bodybuilders give tons of shits about this.
They end up admitting that the guys Rip mentioned “Kirk, Magnusson, etc.” wouldn’t be as jacked if they used methods besides compound barbell lifts. *sigh…
Then John rants about what an idiot Rip is in what is an unprofessional and extremely ironic exercise in using the very same fallacies he berated Rippetoe for just seconds earlier lol.
This podcast was really a chore to sit through. It was long as absolute hell, and it was practically all egghead talk debating the tiniest minutia of human musculature. Hell that’s if you were lucky. Sometimes they literally just argued over terms and talked about fallacies. Felt like high school English class all over again.
The John guy I had never heard of, and he kinda got on my nerves. I’ve never had a reason to dislike Bret Contreras though, and he seemed much more reasonable and grounded than the other dude. Even still Bret should understand that Rip is really all about strength. He’s not a PT, and I wouldn’t go to Rip for physical therapy. Hell I would be happy as a clam to have Bret as my PT if I were injured!
But when it comes to building strength, I see no reason to value Bret’s (and definitely not John’s lol) opinion over Rip’s. Hell Bret has done a powerlifting meet in the weight class above mine, and he’s not even as strong as I am! Rippetoe on the other hand has decades of powerlifting experience and has over 400lbs on Bret’s total in the same weight class.
And of course none of this has anything to due with bodybuilding. Ya big lunk![/quote]
I like you.
Also, I’ll echo all the rational people in this thread:
- Comparing rippetoe to a bodybuilder/bodybuilding coach is absurd. These are not comparable terms.
- The Belichik/Singletary comparison was a good one. Whoever argued that Meadows was also stronger than Rip (aside from being bigger) failed to understand this comparison.
- Contreras is tedious and boring, and I have yet to put anything I’ve read from him to good use. I have put barbells to good use.
- I like Rip for the same reason I like Prof X. When you’re reading these guys, it’s important not to over analyze the details. These are ‘attitude’ guys. Big picture guys. They help you lay the foundation for a successful lifting career. I think it’s weird that anyone would argue against learning the basic barbell movements as a beginner. Or why people want to argue against skinny people eating a ton to grow.
But that’s just me.