Gemstone said, “People waiting for the second coming of Christ in the flesh. Christ never left! What the heck are they waiting for?” Your right he is with us in SPIRIT. The second coming is not some obscure verse. It is a repeated theme throughout the new testament. Christ returning in shape and visible form.
Extra Ecclesiam nvlla sallvs (Outside the Church there is no Salvation)
Pax vobiscvm,
Jason R Baran
Evolution IS CONSIDERED SCIENTIFIC FACT-that is why it is taught in High Shcool Biology. PERIOD.
I have never met someone with a valid reason not to beleive in it other than “my religon.”
Hey Gregbrock,
I do have an open mind. Afterall I can’t disprove God.
However all the signs do point to evolution. Yolk Sacs, Apes, Dinosaurs with feathers, what are our tonsils for?!
There are MILLIOONS of proven Evolotion sall throughout nature. (Ie: Smoke Stacks made buildings black-I don’t remeber where and all the moths were eaten by birds because they were white & did not blend in-as time went on they evolved to being black.)
Also do you really beleive all of us are from Adam & Eve?!?!?! BECAUSE THAT IS SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSIBLE-AND THAT IS A FACT!!!
And why is your God (Christ) the “real God?” Christianity WAS NOT the first religion-why didn’t God reveal himself to cave men & Indians?!?!?!
ooo-ooooh Ba-by, do you know what that’s worth?..ooo-ooooh, Heaven is a place on Earth…they say in Heaven, Love comes first…we’ll make Heaven a place on Earth…
I just wanted to second Gregbrock’s recommended reading by Josh McDowell titled Evidence that Demands a Verdict. This is a very challenging read full of FACTS (archaelogical, etc) If I remember correctly, Josh McDowell set out to disprove the existance of God and prove evolution and in the process proved otherwise. He has another book called Answers to tough questions or something like that.
I believe in God for the simple fact that surrounds me: Creation. The atheist’s scenario on the origin of life proposes that some four billion years ago, inanimate chemicals developed by chance into highly complex, living, single-celled organisms. LOL. If you really believe in this then it’s obvious to me you know little about what kind of miracle it would take for nucleotides and amino acids to EVEN accumulate in a primitive ocean, much less form life. I could go on about the destructive effect of oxygen, ultraviolet radiation etc. but I’ll save you the boredom.
Secondly, if you’re an evolutionist, please explain to me how you can get around the problem of molecular chirality. If you try to tell me that producing pure mixtures of left-handed amino acids and right-handed nucleotides DOESN’T require an intelligent creator, then I question your intelligence.
Third point. Once an enzyme metabolic system is present, it can easily reproduce. But how can you freakin account for the building of the first complex enzymatic protein metabolic motor?
The riddle seems to be: How, when no life existed, did substances come into being which, today, are absolutely essential to living systems, yet which can only be formed by those systems? Please tell me all you atheist evolutionists. I’m waiting.
Do you know just how impossible it is for the spontaneous generation of the simplest known free-living life form on earth – a bacterium, when applying the laws of chemistry and thermodynamics? I’ll bench 10,000 lbs for reps before the proteins in a single amoebae spontaneous generate. Don’t even get me started on the chance formation of the DNA,RNA ,or the cell wall. But feel free to try and explain how a language convention (the genetic code) and the necessary cellular machinery to translate the information stored on the DNA molecule arose independently without intelligent guidance.
I’ll leave you with this quote: “Life cannot have had a random beginning. Troops of monkeys thundering away at random on typewriters could not produce the works of Shakespeare, for the practical reason that the whole observable universe is not large enough to contain the necessary monkey hordes, the necessary typewriters, and certainly the waste paper baskets required for the deposition of wrong attempts. The same is true for living material."
Another pet peeve of mine: Atheistic materialists that try and explain away the beginning of the universe. I think we all know that the universe is expanding. Don’t get me started on philosophical arguments on why the universe can’t be infinite—but the laws of thermodynamics and the inevitable decay of matter confirm that the universe is not eternal–that it began at a certain point in time. (The big bang)
Since the First Law of Thermodynamics demands that matter cannot create itself, then there must have been a cause for time, space, and matter.
The First Law of Thermodynamics is called a “law” because within the bounds of scientific observation it has been proven true beyond all reasonable doubt. In effect, the First Law states that you and I can neither create nor destroy matter. Therefore, it follows that if something which exists (you and I) cannot create matter, then something which doesn’t exist cannot create it either! So answer me:Who or what made that ball of matter that exploded in the Big Bang? I’m waiting all you atheists out there.
But just like when I see fat ladies curling 2 lbs. and I tell them they need to lift heavier, I know they’ll say” I just wanna tone”. I already know your lame atheistic answer: that the big bang made itself! I’m sorrym but the appearance of all the matter in the universe from nothing, by no one, and for no reason is BS. And don’t get me even started on the second law of thermodynamics.
Honestly, think about it guys. If originally there were absolutely nothing-no God, no space, no time-, then how could the universe possibly come to exist? A blob of
space can appear where none existed before? LOL. Maybe spacetime could pop out of nothingness as the result of a causeless quantum transition. snicker. Oh, and if originally absolutely nothing existed, then why should it be spacetime that springs spontaneously out of the void, rather than, say, rabbits?
There is a God. I’ve accepted Christ and I hope you will look into it. Good day.
… agrees with T Rev, although I cant help noticing Dales depressing anti response (who would have known) and wondering if “natural man” understands what the bible teaches about slander, criticism, and judging others.
Naturalman, when I mentioned they passed the plate twice, the occasion was some obscure event history. If a parishner was in need, this wouldn’t have been an issue. I had given what I felt was a very generous donation the first time, most people would feel embarassed if they didn’t put more in when the plate was passed again. My wife and I have a couple of favourite charities, and both of us on occasion buy food for beggers down town. So it’s not like I’m a tight ass. The church was packed, and yes, this was a case of greed.
To TheCatholic: The pope & mary are worshiped when treated in this manner. I don’t know whether there is a god or not, but too much bad is done in his name and some things would not be done if there was no belief. It is said that he is loving and forgiving but it is also said that unless you accept him you are doomed to an eternal existance in hell… pretty final for a forgiving, loving entity. I’m not going to pretend to be a saint, but I think I’m a good man, but I won’t go to heaven because I didn’t worship god. Thats tyrannical and goes against everything that god is supposed to stand for.
I don’t mean to appear against the RC faith. But they believe their doctrine is the only truth as does every other faith. Are christians the only ones that go to heaven ?
A post on religion,not much detail can be covered in a short post. I am assuming we are talking about christianity here, as it is the primary cult in this country and certainly and in major portion of the world. Many arguments have been made on the authenticity of christianity and the historical basis for jesus christ. One argument against his histrical nature is the fact that many pagan cults or mystery religions predate the story of jesus by hundreds if not thousands of years. The common thread is the savior of each religion was born of a virgin, died for our sins and was resurected or reborn 3 days later. There may have been as many as 15 savior redemeer gods before christ, with the exact same story. Now how can that be, well the common thread is the fact that all of these gods are in fact personifications of the Sun. Lets take a closer look at Jesus, a look that seminary teachers,ministers, priests prefer you not know. How do they react when you mention astrology. astrology according to the clergy is devil worship,new age satanic stuff that is sinfull and bad. Well that is the offcial version, now the real reason. Jesus the lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world is = the sun in the constelation aries the ramb or lamb. jesus the fisherman who feeds his followers with two fish = the sun in the house of pisces the two fish. jesus and his followers are greated in front of a house by a man carring a water pitcher, and they entereth into his house. the man with the water pitcher is = aquarius. You see jesus is really the Sun of god not the son of god. jesus dies and is resurected 3 days later. The sun dies on the winter solstice and is reborn 3 days later on dec 25th. which coincidently just happens to be his birthday. Jesus begins his ministry at 30 and ends at 33.The sun enters a constellation of the Zodiac at the 30 degree amd leaves at the 33 degree. Jesus walks on water. the sun walks on the water at sunrise and sunset on the horizon. Look at the suns reflection on the water, hence the myth of walking on the water.
Christian apologist claim the first gospel was written around 70AD. This means the first written word on jesus was put into word 40 years after his death. However unbiased academic historians put the gospels at a much later date try around 170AD. This means the first histrical writings on jesus came 140 years after his death. In fact there are NO FIRST HAND HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS WRITTEN AT THE TIME OF JESUS SUPPOSED EXISTANCE. NOTHING. AND there were many historians alive at the time of jesus, no one mentions him. Apologist will claim that Josephus a jewish histrian offers proof of jesus existance. Sorry all academics know that the passage about jesus in Josephus works are rank forgeries. I could go on and on but whats the point. A christian will come along and claim that everything I have said has been disproven blah blah blah. Well find the evidence for yourself, do not rely on a christian for the truth, you must find it for yourself.
The point I was getting at is that the early Christians, those in the first century A.D did not take part in the politics of that time. They swore no allegiance to any Earthly government. Jesus half brother James wrote that “friendship with the world is enmity with God”-James 4:4. John, who is described as the apostle for whom Jesus had affection, said at 1 John 5:29, that the “whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” Wouldn’t that include the governments of this world?
A reply to the post about the soul, Ezekiel 18:4-“…the soul that is sinning, it itself will die.” Eccl 9:5-"…dead are concious of nothing at all. To me this explains that the soul, which in the bible can also refer to the body (Gen. 2:7 man came to be a living soul. The word soul here is the Hebrew ne’phesh, which means “breathing creature”. This is the same Hebrew word for soul found in Ezekiel 18.
Yes god is a title. What is god’s name? Many Christians say that it is Jesus. Yet Mark 1:11 says that a voice from heaven said “you are my son the beloved, I have approved you.” Luke says the same thing at Luke 3:22. Jesus cousing John the Baptizer said at John 1:34, “I have born witness that this one [Jesus] is the son of God.” Matthew 21:9 mentions the crowds (Jews) calling Jesus the “son of David! Blessed be he that comes in Jehovah’s name.” You can look at the Emphatic Diaglott for this name Jehovah. It is the name of Jesus father.
I was wondering if you would tell me why John 17:16 was a missrepresentation.
We have been told the Bible is perfect. Would something perfect Contradict itself?
{Heb. 11:17} By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac; and he that had recieved the promises offered up his only begotten son.
How could he offer his only “begotten” son if he had two sons?
{Gen. 16:15} For it is written, that Abraham had two sons the one by a bondmaid. the other by a freewoman.
Jesus was Gods only son?
{John 3:16} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
{John 1:18} No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
{John 3:18} He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
{1Jo 4:9} In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Ok ok I get it Jesus was Gods “only begotten Son” or was he?
{Gen. 6:2} That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
{Gen. 6:4} …when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Problems with numbers
{2 Sam. 24:9} And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
{1 Chron. 21;25} And Joab have the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword; and Judah was four hundred three score and ten thousand men that drew sword.
Now thats perfection
{2 Sam. 6:6} And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it
More than likely the oxen didn’t shake his hand
{1 Chron. 13:9} And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark: for the oxen stumbled.
More problems with numbers
{1 Sam. 16:10,11} Again, Jesse made seven of his sons to pass before Samuel. And Samual said unto Jesse, “The Lord hath not chosen these.” And Samuel said unto Jesse, “Are here all thy children?” And he said, “There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep.”
The first passage eludes to 8 children while the next only counts 7
{Chron. 2:13-15} And Jesse begat his first-born, Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third, Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, Ozem the sixth, David the seventh.
{Num. 25:9} And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.
Yet another clear contradiction
{1 Cor. 10:8} Niether let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
{Gen. 46:26,27} All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives all the souls were threescore and six; and the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.
{Exod. 1:5} And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.
Can someone please explain this.
{Acts 7:14} Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him. and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen sould.
{Gen. 17:8} And I will give unto thee and to thy seed after thee… all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession.
Read in context these two passages refer to Abraham
{Acts 7:5} And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on.
{Gen. 25:1} Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
Oxford Desk Dictionary: concubine n. 1 mistress. 2 secondary wife
{Chron. 1:32} Keturah, Abraham’s concubine.
{Gen. 11:12} And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah.
Arphaxad the father or grandfather?
{Luke 3:35,36} Sala, which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad
{2 Sam. 8:4} And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen.
or was it seven thousand horesmen?
{1 Chron. 18:4} And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven thousand horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen.
{Num. 12:3} Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.
Oxford Desk Dictionary says: “meek” 1 humble and submissive. 2 piously gentle in nature.
{Num. 31:14,17,18} And Moses was wroth…And Moses said unto them,“Have ye saved all the women alive”… Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman… But all the women children… keep alive for youselves."
{Judg. 14:9} And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil.
He must not have recieved the “fruit of the Spirit”
{Gal. 5:22,23} But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.
{Sam. 10:18} And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.
“seven hundred” or “seven thousand” , “horsemen” or “footmen”, perfect or not so perfect?
{1 Chron. 19:18} but the Syrians fled before the Israel; and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen and killed Shophack the captain of the host.
{Gen. 2:17} But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
It seems clear that Adam should have died the day he ate the forbidden fruit
{Gen 5:5} And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
{Lev. 23:14,21,31,41} It shall be a statute for ever.
When read in full context its clear this is a contradiction
{Rom 7:6} But now we are delivered from the law
{Exod. 20:13} thou shalt not kill
of course what God realy meant was “sometimes thou shalt not kill”
{Exod. 32:27} thus saith the LORD God of Israel, “Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp. and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his nighbor.”
{Gen. 1:25} And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
{GEN 1:26} And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
What was first man or beast?
{GEN 2:18} And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
{GEN 2:19} And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
I just hope one of these guys got it right
{Mat 27:37}And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
{Mark 15:26}And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
{Luke 23:38}And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
{John 19:19}And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
I’m not going to get into which religion (if any) is correct because that’s inconsequential to what I’m about to say. I would like point out that religions are institutions to exercise control over people. Many religions just feed into peoples (e.g. fear of death) and/or dictate how people should live. These religions make the people who run them very powerful and/or very rich. In closing, I’d like to bash Christianity (I was raised Catholic) by saying if an institution can get a person to oppress something as powerful as the sex drive than it has complete control over them.
Naturalman the idea is to have a debate and maybe, just maybe some thinking on the part of people. I AM NOT AGAINST RELIGION, I wish I had more faith, I will say that there are 3 reasons why I can not say there is no God. 1 is that no matter what we do we can NOT create life, we can make plasma but we CAN NOT give it LIFE,2 there is a tree, no I can’t remember which tree it is, that has sap that runs UP the tree, science can NOT explain it,3 is the plain old bumblebee, the wt. of the bee and the rate that the wings flap make it scientificaly impossible for it to fly, yet it still does. the point is that I will NOT SAY THERE IS NO GOD, but I have a ploblem w/religion, in the least it is the luck of the draw, you have no control over what you are born or what “religion” you are born into, now I know that you can convert to another religion, but not all can, if you live in some parts of this world you have NOT even heard of half the religions out there yet these religions believe that they( that don’t even know what this religion is) have to convert or they ROT IN HELL. the argument about pruveing that God does NOT exist is just plain stupid, you can not prove that there is not some alien hovering around your head that we can not detect, but you know what, I would lay money that there is not. you can not pruve what does not exist, you can only pruve what does. and maybe someday science WILL pruve God does exist, maybe he does and it IS all about being part of the “RIGHT” religion. I don’t know, but that IS the point. and yes I know I suck at spelling.
This type of stuff has no place on this website! LETS KEEP IT TO TRAINING, ETC.
In case you haven’t been paying attention, science and “religion” are coming together. It used to be that you either believed in science or some form of creation from a spiritual belief. However, now science is realizing that creation is more likely and religions are realizing that evoultion is evident amongst animals and science is a huge part of life. I’m a Chrisitian and I try to avoid futile debates of this topic but just think about the complexity of life. Do you think it was just an accident or do you think it was planned? Also, concerning how old our universe is, I believe that it is millions of years old which contradicts the bible. But when the OT was written, the calendar wasn’t invented. Time is eternal to God. Lastly, science can’t prove there isn’t a God and religion can’t prove there is a God. My suggestion to those that don’t believe in Christ is to read objectively and experience God’s grace in due time.
If god does exist, by the time I get through with the motherfucker, he’s gonna wish he didn’t.
Many of you here scoff at the idea that Christians believe that only they will go to heaven. The bible says that of Christians, only 144,000 go to heaven (Revelation 7:4-“I heard the number of those sealed, a hundred and forty four thousand”). Those of you who believe you are going to heaven, what are you going to do there? Revelation says that those chosen for heaven will rule as Kings and Priests. Revelation 1:6…"and he made us to be a kingdom; priests to his God and Father.
Wouldn’t a true follower of Christ be preaching as Christ did? He went from village to village. His apostles went from door to door and village to village right after Jesus died. I think if we followed in his footsteps as Peter said to, we wouldn’t be having this debate. Wisdom is proved righteous by it’s works. I think we should examine ourselves, our faith and our actions and see if we who profess Christian, really are Christian.
Gemstone – I like what you said about the New Testament replacing the Old Testament.
The Old Testament is man reaching up to God with self-effort to be accepted by God. The New Testament is God reaching down to man through Jesus Christ with love and acceptance. Man and his religion is about trying to earn God’s favor. I do not like religion. I agree that religion promotes hate. I see from some of the replies to this post that there are some good rebels running from religion. Good for you! God said thru the apostle Paul “it is for freedom that Christ set you free.” Religion puts people under the law (rules), but those who receive Jesus’ life are set free from the law. This is because “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself not counting men’s sins against them” (2 Corinthians). Everyone’s sins have been taken away and we can receive eternal life from God, Who will live His life thru us—a life of love that no one thru religious laws can attain.
Jesus came to give you life. Why? Because without Him you are spiritually dead, (without the life of God). When Jesus was on earth as a man He was the only person spiritually alive on earth, and so, was the only One that could give His life as a ransom for the world. Why was Jesus the only live person? Because He was conceived by the Holy Spirit (virgin birth). Why is everyone else dead? Because everyone else is born “in Adam”. Adam was created in God’s image (alive), but chose independence form God and died (spiritually). And the bible says Adam’s first-born son was in the image of Adam (dead), which continues down the line.
This issue is not about do’s and don’ts. The issue is life. “And this is the testimony, that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life, but he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11-12).