Question about Fats, carbs, and protein.

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

  1. How much good fat is too much? g/lb how much should someone get? How much can actually be used? If they’re not used, aren’t they stored as fat?

  2. Do all kinds of fat help raise T levels or is it only saturated fats?

  3. How much protein is too much? Obviously 600+ is for someone who’s not 300lbs but is 300-400g range too much?

  4. Is the same amount of protein needed on off days as it is on workout days? I know muscles are still repairing but is a really high amount still needed?

I plan on cycling my calories from about 1700-2400.
1700 = off days
2400 = days with HIIT and weights
then the other days will be somewhere in between. I’ll start raising the cals as the intensity gets higher but this is the starting point.

I was going to do 300g protein, 80g fats, 120g carb for the 2400 calorie day.
Then for the other days, I’ll be around 75g carbs–same amounts of protein and fat.

For my low day, I’m over the cals if I keep protein and fats the same–should I eat less protein, or less fat so I can get some carbs in?

2

I forgot a few questions…

  1. If trying to lose bodyfat, when’s the best time to have carbs?

  2. When’s the best time to have good fats?

3

Just for the record, question #1 is in fact four questions. Additionally, you have two #2 questions; this confuses me immensely. If you can’t even count, is worrying about macronutrient combinations and timing really that important at this point? Likewise, how do we know that the calories you listed below are even accurate; you could be eating 8,500 calories worth of Slim-Jims and we wouldn’t even know it.

Your second #2 is also two questions, bringing the grand total to seven…yet you still think you’re at two. Continuing on, #3 has two questions, putting you at 3 and the rest of us at 9. You also tacked on two in one sentence at the end of your first post (you: 3, us: 11).

With #4 and #5, you get to five. We get to 13. That said, why stop here? Twenty questions is SO much fun! In fact, my esteemed colleague Cassandra and I were just reflecting on what a great game that is! So c’mon, stay the hell away from the archives; we wanna’ play! Get to 20, and we’d be happy to help you out!

4

ok im going to try to answer these one by one.

#1-5 read t mag! especially the fat roundtable, carb roundtable and protein roundtable, and all other articles that refer to these topics.

5

Do they call you “One” because you’ve only read one issue of T-mag?

[Rim shot]

Seriously, you may want to start with all the roundtable articles - protein roundtable, carb roundtable, fat roundtable etc. Most by Berardi as I recall.

“The Essential Berardi” by Shugart would also cut your questions down to, oh, 7-8 or so.

Those are in the previous issues section if you didn’t know. See button over to the left.

6

I have a feeling your gonna get flamed for some of your questions, but I’ll give you some answers.

  1. Generally, try to get around 30% or less CALORIES from good fats (when not ketogenic). If ketogenic, this will be higher because you’ll need to make up for some of the cals that would normally come from carbs.

  2. Not sure about fat and T levels…i’ll leave that for the experts

  3. Go for 1.5-2g protein/lb. There’s no evidence for any number that’s TOO MUCH…but I’d hypothesize that much more than 2g /lb may induce some undesired GI difficulties.

  4. I eat the same number of cals every day…rest or work out days. Only thing I change is carb composition. I don’t think your calorie cycling is favourable. Your fluctuating 700 calories between work and rest days…this is too big a jump in my eyes. I don’t know your stats or goals…but make sure 1700 cals isn’t too low, even if your dieting.

  5. Don’t reduce your protein. Play with your carbs and Fats…but keep your protein the same

  6. This is where I think your gonna get flamed. You got some reading to do. Read “The carb roundtable”, and John Berardi’s interview in this week’s issue. Even if your on a diet, during and post-workout carbs, as well as breakfast carbs are easily handled by the body since they are in a glycogenically straved mode.

  7. Read the “Fat Round Table” and pretty much anything else you can get your hands on. P+F meals are best in your last few meals since carbs are not well metabolized by your body after around 6pm (Not a hard and fast time…but generally). I eat 8 meals a day…My first 4 are P+C, and my last 4 ar P+F. Based on my 7am workout I have my last carb meal by 12-1pm…but that’s only due to my schedule. If you work out in the afternoon that’ll be different for you because of your post-workout P+C meal.

Dude, you gots to get reading. I see you’ve got a lot to learn…but don’t be discouraged…we were all there once.

7

Brilliant response Eric. In the time and space you spent chiding this guy with valid questions, you could have probably answered most of them in a generic way. Great job. I’m glad the forums are at least an outlet for some people.

8

Okay One,
By the way, what kind of name is One anyways? Perhaps you are actually Two or even Three. I’ve heard of some Schizophrenics who are Four! Are you just trying to clarify that your personlaity is not a reflection of the number of questions you asked? As EC stated, if you get to 20, then you get a prize!

With regards to fat intake since I am doing my MSC research in fats, I can give you some new unpublished data. First, in order to enhance your T levels, we have found that feasting on a 10 KG bucket of Pig Fat (a.k.a, LARD) before you weight train will greatly enhance your resting and post-workout Testosterone levels. Lard is rich in cholesterol and saturated fat so naturally, it will help your body produce more T. Dont worry about the effects it will have on your Blood cholesterol levels, as heart attacks and atherosclerosis are only a problem after you turn 50- and you wont make it to that age anyways.

And your carb intake is too low. You should eat mostly rice cakes, frosted flakes, donuts, chips and pop to get the correct amount of glucose needed to optimize insulin secretion. Remember: Insulin is anabolic, so you want lots of it in the body.

Dont worry about protein as much either. When you do eat protein (if you even want to bother, it doesnt do much) you only need 2-3 small servings a day. This is what the Food Pyramid tells us, and it’s the most accurate information. The best protein sources are tofu, beans and processed meat and canned meats like Spam. But dont eat too much protein because it will cause kidney failure and acidosis.

Hope this helps! Happy dieting!

9

In One’s profile, it states that he’s 6ft, 170lbs and 12% BF.

I really don’t think he should be dieting. Why not look into Massive Eating? Or the Skinny Bastard? These should answer your “how much should I be eating” questions. What TEK suggested is good: just read any/all articles by John Berardi. Period.

Or just freakin’ eat plenty of food; of course, keep it “clean” food.

10

Wow! My esteemed colleagues, I must say that I’m in utter awe as it relates to the responses that I’ve seen this post draw. I don’t know if it’s because I’ve been sleeping the last two days away or what, but I’m surely glad that I’ve not been exposed to this Smart Ass Virus…

11

dlodawg,

Where’s the love, buddy? If you need proof of me making valid contributions to this forum, feel free to click on my name and review the 517 posts to my credit. I’d say that amid all the discussions of biomechanics, kinesiology, exercise physiology, and nutrition, you’ll be sure to find quite a few educational/helpful tidbits; I think that I’m entitled to my fun.

That said, I’ll be a good guy and help him out “generically:”

  1. There is no ideal intake; it’s highly individual, and depends on a variety of factors. Yes, too much fat can make you fat. You need to experiment and learn what works for you.

  2. Suffice it to say that you don’t need to go out of your way to add saturates to your diet; get your monos and polys from supplemental sources (olive, flax, fish oils) and let the saturates from your protein intake suffice.

  3. There’s no such thing as too much; worry more about what is optimal for you. Check out “Protein Prejudice” by JB.

  4. I think so. Take your carbs down a bit to account for the decrease in calories.

  5. If trying to lose body fat, keep your carbs post-training. Some people will be able to lose fat with carbs at breakfast, too.

  6. Healthy fats are great whenever you eat and aren’t jacking up insulin levels (with carbs).

To continue with my senseless digression, I think that we should consider:

-Where does a lap go when you stand up?
-What’s the meaning of life?
-Where do babies come from?
-What did Chris Merrow do to that poor, poor Monkey Butler?
-If a tree falls in the forest, can you teach a kid with ADD how to play hopscotch?
-Exactly what kind of vessel was Mr. Crunch the Captain of? Patricia knows:)
-When I get tired from eating all that lard, can I rub it on my body to meet my fat requirements for the day? I heard that transdermal absorption was better than traditional eating (thanks, Cass).
-What ever happened to that guy that wanted to take Mag-10 rectally?

12

Sonofabitch! This guy, E-C, is gonna turn your head in all different directions. That’s why I love 'im!

If you can honestly rip E-C for making one or two not-so-scientific posts, then you must be the God of the Forums or something. He’s consistently pointed individuals in the right direction as it relates to training, nutrition, and supplementation. To ride him for having some fun (and very creative at that) is absolute garbage! That’s right, garbage. Smelly freakin’ garbage!

I honestly want you to search all of E-C’s past posts and read all the tidbits of awesome knowledge that my boy has bestowed upon us. Without a doubt, E-C should be regarded as one of the top-notch forumites here. If he can’t have some fun every once in a while, then there’s something drastically wrong.

Just to add to E-C’s quality info, One, in response to your second question, monounsaturated fats (i.e. extra virgin olive oil, nuts, etc.) will also enhance T Levels, whereas our oft overemphasized polyunsaturated fats are negatively correlated to T Levels.

13

Eric Cressey: The way I organized the questions isn’t important. I put #'s infront of ones that were related.

I’m sure it wouldn’t matter either way. The few people who post on internet chat boards that actually do LOOK like they workout take steroids, the rest just do stupid shit… it never works for anyone and they suggest everyone to follow it blindly too.

14

"Okay One,
By the way, what kind of name is One anyways? Perhaps you are actually Two or even Three. I’ve heard of some Schizophrenics who are Four! Are you just trying to clarify that your personlaity is not a reflection of the number of questions you asked? As EC stated, if you get to 20, then you get a prize!

With regards to fat intake since I am doing my MSC research in fats, I can give you some new unpublished data. First, in order to enhance your T levels, we have found that feasting on a 10 KG bucket of Pig Fat (a.k.a, LARD) before you weight train will greatly enhance your resting and post-workout Testosterone levels. Lard is rich in cholesterol and saturated fat so naturally, it will help your body produce more T. Dont worry about the effects it will have on your Blood cholesterol levels, as heart attacks and atherosclerosis are only a problem after you turn 50- and you wont make it to that age anyways.

And your carb intake is too low. You should eat mostly rice cakes, frosted flakes, donuts, chips and pop to get the correct amount of glucose needed to optimize insulin secretion. Remember: Insulin is anabolic, so you want lots of it in the body.

Dont worry about protein as much either. When you do eat protein (if you even want to bother, it doesnt do much) you only need 2-3 small servings a day. This is what the Food Pyramid tells us, and it’s the most accurate information. The best protein sources are tofu, beans and processed meat and canned meats like Spam. But dont eat too much protein because it will cause kidney failure and acidosis."

Don’t be an ass. I’ve read all of the articles people suggested already. I’ve read many other articles other places as well. The point of this post was to get people’s experience with such questions, not just to read articles written by guys who don’t look like they workout–but I’m sure a lot of you don’t look like you workout either.

I’m 180lbs now, and probably lower than 12%–more like 6%–If I use the same bodyfat scale as people on here.

To everyone who wanted to help, thanks. I’ve come to realize this forum, for the most part though, is a joke.

15
Don't be an ass. I've read all of the articles people suggested already.
Uhh.. obviously not. It's been explicitly pointed out that almost all of the information you seek is in those articles. That's why people decided to have fun with you. Lighten up.
16

One-Dawg,

Seeing your blunt opinion on the current state of affairs of both the writers here at T-Mag and the T-Forums, I’d like to offer you a very similar prize to that which was awarded to the New Jersey Nets no too long ago this evening by your San Antonio Spurs. Thanks, One, for your participation! Good luck next year!

Now, as far as T-Mag writers not looking the part. Whoa, Nelly! Have you seen the pictures of guys like JB, Dr. Lowery, Chris Thibs, C-Dubya, Shugs and the rest of the family? My friend, you are digging yourself a bit of a hole.

Finally, at no point in your original post did you even come near to stating that you were interested in your fellow forumites’ experiences. You’re interrogative statements were quite clear.

Now, because I just like to tell it like it is and not always be the bad guy, I’ll hit on some of your questions:

  1. If you’re getting about 100g of fat per day or about 0.5g/lb, this should be a good starting point with which to work. Some dietary fats are likely more readily stored as bodyfat than others. Obviously, the environment and timing in which you ingest them plays a critical role.

  2. I already mentioned that monos are positively correlated to T levels also.

  3. I would suggest striving for the same amount of protein and nutrients on both training and recovery days. This allows for an exercise-induced zig-zag in caloric intake. I would suggest basing your protein intake on fat-free mass or lean body mass (i.e. 1.5g/lb of FFM)

  4. Timing of carbohydrates depends on your training time. Generically speaking, having Surge (or a similar concoction) during and after training, and then a whole-food P/C meal about 60 minutes after the post-training Surge would be ideal in most circumstances.

  5. Good fats should be added to protein meals at all other times of the day.

Hope this helps.

17

One,

I agree that some of the first replies weren’t helpful, but you just made a complete idiot of yourself by attacking the TMag writers and forum posters. Why don’t you go and check out some of the pics, oh waitaminute, since you’re too lazy and arrogant to do that, let me make it easy for you…

Just scroll down and check out some of the pics, what’s funny is that these pics are of guys who wrote articles that answer all your questions, you’re just to upset and concerned with the responses you got on this thread and you’re wasting your effort with baseless attacks that are so off mark you just look like a huge pric.

So you made a pric of yourself, we forgive you, forget about it and take a look at some the articles suggested and the “good” advice offered so far and let us know if you still need help or have any other questions and we’ll be glad to help. Hope you take my rather blunt advice with an open mind.

18

EC…

After a quick review of your 518 posts and eliminating the ones where you reference “Monkey Sex”, “Scratching myself with Vigour in Public Libraries” and any and all content with the phrase “Edible Lubricant” in it I was left with just under 500 posts.

Not a bad record to be sure. Your consistency is to be applauded but just for comparisons sake I reviewed my own posting record and found that with the exception of the time I accidentally let it slip that “you should never allow Timmy P to borrow your rubber patch repair kit because he will never return it”, mine have been a stellar example of nonsense. 428 out of 429. I am sure that my T-Shirt is on it’s way as we speak.

One ~ If you expect World class help with your questions, perhaps you should invest some World class effort before you ask them and display some humility when you don’t. That EC invested his time to flame you was more than your questions deserved and Cassanova’s response was a small bit of inspired humour as well, you should be flattered. You also have your information and all of your questions answered so alls well that ends well, right?

"I’m 180lbs now, and probably lower than 12%–more like 6%–If I use the same bodyfat scale as people on here.

To everyone who wanted to help, thanks. I’ve come to realize this forum, for the most part though, is a joke."

#1. If you are indeed around 6% I would suggest getting bigger before getting small, 6% is awfully low and unless you are doing a contest in the immediate future, why would you want to be any lower?

#2. There is a great difference between having fun and being a joke. You are welcome to stay and discover that difference for yourself. If you have been doing your homework here I would have thought that the “T-Flavour” would have been apparent by now…guess not…

“A joke is a very serious thing”

~ Sir Winston Churchill

19

Woah, imagine what JB et al would look like if they actually worked out?

I must say I’m pleased to see my diet of deep fried lard filled donuts has finally been vindicated, thanks Cassanova!

Quick question for you One. Given that you said:

“The few people who post on internet chat boards that actually do LOOK like they workout take steroids, the rest just do stupid shit… it never works for anyone and they suggest everyone to follow it blindly too”

Why on earth did you ask for advice on an “internet chat board” in the first place?

20

I’m not 6%–I said, If I use the same scale that the people in the picture forum use, I would be around 6%. By that I mean, most who say they are 6%, either have really shitty genetics so they will always look bad (probably not the case) or they aren’t 6%.