i didnt mean to create a fallacy and i know what your saying with regard to my statement i could have worded it much better. i was more so trying to dismiss the extreme circumstance of having my leg crushed in some sort of motor vehicle or industrial accident
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
If you train(and actually spar)…fight…this shouldn’t even be a drawn out debate,imo. [/quote]He doesn’t train. He’s stated before that he lives hours away from the closest gym. He’s posted videos of him hitting a bag, shadowboxing and chopping wood.
He has no experience, but he insists on giving advice to people and telling everyone they’re wrong. He can’t know what he’s talking about which means he’s either getting some of this stuff from books or online from other people who don’t know what they are talking about or he doesn’t understand what they are talking about.
Until someone kicks his ass in sparring at a gym, he’s going to keep on thinking he knows what he’s talking about and is the greatest power puncher ever because he chops wood for hours.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I can agree with those last two posts.
I will also just mention a lot of the time in a fight you are taking a glancing blow or if not that, then a blow in which some of the force has been mitigated, a kick may be thrown without proper technique, it may be thrown without a lot of power, you may be moving away or into the kick in such a way that they end up hitting with the kick in a less than ideal position, so like you mention, how long that takes to build up on someone is probably different if your legs are conditioned vs not conditioned.[/quote]
True…to a degree. And I say this because if you’re in the ring(more so than the mma…which is another debate itself)…you should be confident and reactive with proper leg checking. That person with lazy,improper technique is going to hate life when you check their shit. Which brings up the debate of shin conditioning…haha. Something more immediately valuable than “conditioning” your quads…truth be spoken.
Yeah, having conditioned shins is important for sure.
As to grimlorn: I’ve never made the claim that I’ve never trained in a gym, or that I’ve never sparred. The only claims I have made are that right now I am in a training phase in which I am not going to a commercial gym and that I haven’t professionally fought yet.
Yeah I have a home gym with over 400pounds, two heavy-bags, a stand/setup, double-end bag, speed-bag, a collection of sledge-hammers, skipping rope, a maul, a medicine ball, a captain’s of crush 1.5 hand gripper, a 20pound vest, a wrist roller, and a pile of other shit that I can’t re-call of the top of my head, that must mean I’m a joke, that must mean that I don’t take my training seriously.
Or it means it’d rather have a home gym than all the bullshit that most people buy for themselves. It doesn’t mean I have never trained in a commercial gym or that I never will. I want my own personal gym and I will slowly build up to it, so what? The only thing I really need from a gym is a squat-rack or power-cage and a good trap bar.
If anything that points out the dedication I do have to training, not the lack-there-of. I like gyms, but I would love to have my own fully equipped gym.
Some of you would do well to get the hell out of a gym, and sprint down to a beach, pick up some 30-50pound rock and throw that over your head for 1-2km, and sprint back home. When you’re on your knees puking, in the sun and heat instead of the air-conditioned SPA of the gym, you might get an idea of what the real world is like. Or try running through the snow.
Unfortunately the real world is often times cold, windy, hot, muggy or etc. If you can’t maintain your ability in extreme environments, because you’re used to the luxury of a gym, you’re only kidding yourself.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I don’t take my training seriously.[/quote]Exactly. When I talk about training at a gym, I’m talking about training at a gym with other fighters. Not at Gold’s gym or some other weightlifting gym.
If you don’t train and spar with other fighters and coaches that teach you proper technique and how to fight then you have no business giving advice on the subject. You’ve never been kicked in the legs I bet and you’re telling people how to condition their legs for kicks. You’ve changed your tune now that you have multiple people telling you you’re wrong.
Lifting weights and punching a bag isn’t going to make you a good fighter. Someone who doesn’t lift weights and just trains at a gym regularly and fights will beat you every time. That’s all I’m going to say on the subject. I’m done.
OMG! Will you lot just GROW UP
You’re all as bad as eacch other… I just thought “humble” was “humble” in his “humble” posts, but i see this is the culture of this place.
Bloody hell, if you lot keep this up, i’m off to my other forums which have more GROWN -UPS in them you un-Grown up people!!!
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
OMG! Will you lot just GROW UP
You’re all as bad as eacch other… I just thought “humble” was “humble” in his “humble” posts, but i see this is the culture of this place.
Bloody hell, if you lot keep this up, i’m off to my other forums which have more GROWN -UPS in them you un-Grown up people!!![/quote]
woah chill bro
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
OMG! Will you lot just GROW UP
You’re all as bad as eacch other… I just thought “humble” was “humble” in his “humble” posts, but i see this is the culture of this place.
Bloody hell, if you lot keep this up, i’m off to my other forums which have more GROWN -UPS in them you un-Grown up people!!![/quote]
I love your sense of self-deprecating humor.
[quote]WyldFlower wrote:
OMG! Will you lot just GROW UP
You’re all as bad as eacch other… I just thought “humble” was “humble” in his “humble” posts, but i see this is the culture of this place.
Bloody hell, if you lot keep this up, i’m off to my other forums which have more GROWN -UPS in them you un-Grown up people!!![/quote]
It’s ok brother. Breath slow.
You and humble were both talking past each other quite a bit. It happens on the net.
With regards to IronClaws; search his post history. It will give you some background as to why some people react the way they do.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Since I’m getting looked over…I will just say this:
In regards to difference in leg musculature development of fighters…it might make a difference in how soon the damage takes a toll(and that’s not factoring in the attacking person’s ability to give damage). THAT’S IT. End of story. If you train(and actually spar)…fight…this shouldn’t even be a drawn out debate,imo. [/quote]
I hope no one is discounting what you write.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
With regards to IronClaws; search his post history. It will give you some background as to why some people react the way they do.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]I did probably overreact a bit. I’ve been sick since the beginning of last week and haven’t trained at all so I was in a bad mood, but I started training yesterday and today so I’m feeling good again. I get ornery if I stop training for more than a few days. I’m addicted.
That’s better. Now behave, otherwise I’m leaving.
WF
I guess there should be some ‘experience’ indicator thread on here where people can validate their serious involvement in fight sports before they are taken seriously.
Big quads mean jack and those argueing for them are intellectually masturbating.
I have large long quads, most of my body weight is in them but 13 kicks later in a minute and getting dropped 4 times (from leg kicks) after I had the first round sealed and was bullying my opponent in the second for a win to see me go through to a big purse eliminator, I could not stand up and was tko’d. I later went into shock in the change rooms due to trauma. Trust me, big quads are nothing to brag about in fighting.
I could take a lot more punishment to the thighs when they were ‘smaller’ and those who have read my previous posts know that I have had 3 shin operations, a 40 stich fasciotomy on my right thigh, torn acl for 4 years (still fought on it) in my left knee, torn meniscus in the left knee and the list goes on.
Nothing can prepare you for a fast motherfucker who can kick well. Not squatting 500 pounds and not making them as big as possible.
This is just absurd thinking.
Fight spar and fight spar hard, learn how to check and learn how to ‘absorb’ kicks if you cannot avoid being kicked. Learn how to man up and deal with the hitting. No one likes to be hit but the trick is to learn to not let it bother you, not to take nth degree punishment for dick measuring.
I’m sure most of that’s true, but all things considered a stronger, better conditioned leg will be able to absorb more blows before failure. I find it hard to believe that a solid pair of quads would some-how give out before a pair of skinny or less conditioned legs, although no doubt regardless of quad size/conditioning (just as much about conidtioning) if you take a few solid blows to the legs, you might go into shock or collapse.
It’s not so much that I mean “super big quads” just large, good quads. You can say that when your quads were bigger you took blows to them less well, that could be for a million different reasons including that you were just getting hit at different angles or harder when the quads happened to be a bit bigger, it’s not like you ran double blind experiments with scientific equipment to show that your legs absorbed the damage less well, as an individual athlete you just felt that way.
I agree with almost all of what you say, if you’re taking leg shots the conditioning of your legs probably means jack shit after a certain point, but the more conditioned the legs are, in part how large the quad is, can effect how long it takes to get to that point. though i don’t mean just quad size, but bone, tendon and ligament strength/conditioning of the upper/lower legs.
It’s certainly true that if you had stronger tendons/ligaments and bones when your quads were smaller, you could expect the legs to absorb more damage. It depends on what kind of training you were doing when you had bigger quads, bigger quads ALONE probably won’t help.
I fully agree with the idea that “nothing can prepare you for a guy who can kick hard and fast” in the same way that nothing can prepare you for getting smashed in the body or head by a fast and powerful puncher, but when that happens I am glad to have a hugely built up midsection/abs. It doesn’t “prepare” me for the psychological shock or physical shock but it helps me to weather the blow, to withstand it for sure. I have been smashed all over the body enough times to know that for certain, haha.
In my understanding leg kicks debilitate primarily through creating “motor dysfunction” in the major nerves of the thigh. Basically a big mother charlie horse that shuts the leg down so you literally cannot stand.
Any of the more experienced guys please feel free to correct me here.
I don’t really see how increased leg size will protect against this.
I have personally experienced this several times without suffering any of the severe trauma that humble describes (thankfully). I have found that over time I have definitely become less susceptible (but by no means immune) to this. I’m not sure exactly the mechanism, but leg size is not it. Ability to check/absorb and general reduction in my give-a-shit level seems much more likely. I honestly believe that if you persist for a while, your brain just gives up on trying to discourage you from doing stupid things.
Kick a skinny Thai guy in the leg and you’ll see what I mean. But be prepared to get your beat down immediately after.
No doubt that’s true, It also seems true that the shock to the central nervous system will be worse when there’s more damage to the leg, shut down the leg quicker. All things considered though, you mention people become accustomed to taking blows to some extent over time, I only meant bigger/more conditioned legs all things considered, not that they will help you if you’ve never been hit in the leg before.
anyway, happens to boxers as well and their hands, when someone begins boxing there may be some pain in the wrists and hands, or in the abs when you’re blasted, you eventually get used to it to some extent though.
[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I’m sure most of that’s true, but all things considered a stronger, better conditioned leg will be able to absorb more blows before failure. I find it hard to believe that a solid pair of quads would some-how give out before a pair of skinny or less conditioned legs, although no doubt regardless of quad size/conditioning (just as much about conidtioning) if you take a few solid blows to the legs, you might go into shock or collapse.
It’s not so much that I mean “super big quads” just large, good quads. You can say that when your quads were bigger you took blows to them less well, that could be for a million different reasons including that you were just getting hit at different angles or harder when the quads happened to be a bit bigger, it’s not like you ran double blind experiments with scientific equipment to show that your legs absorbed the damage less well, as an individual athlete you just felt that way.
I agree with almost all of what you say, if you’re taking leg shots the conditioning of your legs probably means jack shit after a certain point, but the more conditioned the legs are, in part how large the quad is, can effect how long it takes to get to that point. though i don’t mean just quad size, but bone, tendon and ligament strength/conditioning of the upper/lower legs.
It’s certainly true that if you had stronger tendons/ligaments and bones when your quads were smaller, you could expect the legs to absorb more damage. It depends on what kind of training you were doing when you had bigger quads, bigger quads ALONE probably won’t help.
I fully agree with the idea that “nothing can prepare you for a guy who can kick hard and fast” in the same way that nothing can prepare you for getting smashed in the body or head by a fast and powerful puncher, but when that happens I am glad to have a hugely built up midsection/abs. It doesn’t “prepare” me for the psychological shock or physical shock but it helps me to weather the blow, to withstand it for sure. I have been smashed all over the body enough times to know that for certain, haha.[/quote]
Brother, without trying to sound like a cock, I don’t think you have fought. You keep repeating the larger built quads/thigh mantra and it just isn’t true. My easiest opponents were the well built guys. I dropped them all, all the guys who had big shapely legs. The hardest mofo’s were rugby players turned fighters.
Their legs were big due to function but they were conditioned from the amount of hits they had taken in their previous sports. The amount of punishement they can take and still stand infront of you is insane. That type of conditioning is useful. Weight trained legs mean jack unless it is doing exercises beneficial to the cardio-vascular/lactic threshold limits, ie for endurance etc but for taking kicks? Not a chance that they help.
I was talking about the hard-core conditioning of people like rugby players and the likes, whose quads are pretty conditioned, not necessarily the quads of bodybuilders, and I never just said size of quad but meant entire leg conditioned in a certain way.
“Weight trained legs mean jack unless it is doing exercises beneficial to the cardio-vascular/lactic threshold limits”
This is probably true but no one said NOT to do this. For example, 30 rep squat with 200-250+pounds will WORK YOUR CARDIO-VASCULAR and LACTIC ACID threshold, IT WILL INCREASE THE DENSITY OF YOUR LEGS, it will increase bone, tendon and ligament density, it will psychologically harden you as well. Though I think running is JUST AS IMPORTANT, sparring just as IMPORTANT, taking shots to the legs to accustom yourself PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY probably the most important.
Some huge part of dealing with shots to the body is being accustomed to it psychologically, not going into shock when you get hit, not letting yourself descend into this deep dark pit of anxiety, not letting the disease of fear slip in has got to be just as important.
My only point is that: if you are a conditioned fighter who takes shots to the legs and you are used to it, you know how to avoid them, you know how to take them, but you still find them a bit rough to absorb, then all things CONSIDERED, adding a strength training/resistance training program designed to make the legs more resilient will help to some EXTENT:
Adding a running program, adding a high rep squat program, even adding some types of jumps on top of your SPARRING (where you take strikes to the legs) and some of the other leg conditioning people do to make the legs more resilient.
Dude…is human your first language?? lol. You’re tripping,backtracking,and stubbling all over the place. You’re regurgitating the same basic idea…yet loosely agreeing with refuting arguments of others. It’s like you’re just trying to be dense to impress or something.
The fact that you are over-simplifying this…speaks more than what you are actually stating. You’ve already agreed with what’s pretty much fact to ppl who train/fight:
…taking shots to the legs to accustom yourself PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY probably the most important. YES!
…Some huge part of dealing with shots to the body is being accustomed to it psychologically, not going into shock when you get hit, not letting yourself descend into this deep dark pit of anxiety, not letting the disease of fear slip in has got to be just as important. YES
…My only point is that: if you are a conditioned fighter who takes shots to the legs and you are used to it, you know how to avoid them, you know how to take them, but you still find them a bit rough to absorb, then all things CONSIDERED, adding a strength training/resistance training program designed to make the legs more resilient will help to some EXTENT: YES…and NO. NO…because this was not your original point.
All of this should have been apparent for you to state in the beginning…yet you didn’t. We should agree to disagree on your stance. After all…if “conditioning” the legs through exercise only helps to an EXTENT…as you stated yourself. RIGHT? Then obviously it’s not that important to be a focus in dealing with leg strikes. RIGHT?
All the things I just quoted you on are the real focus areas(which you already recognize): Mental training…sparring…(DEFENSE)drills…contact! These things are what you should be focused on for that sole purpose. Your argument for leg training has its important place for being in “fight shape”…but not in the place for training to take leg strikes.
Any beginner…like the OP I assume should strive to get better at timing kicks…footwork…blocking technique…SHIN CONDITIONING/confidence to defend kicks…counters. HELL it could be something as simple as adjusting his stance. This is almost a section of the get better for sport…by training the sport arguments.