Pyramid or Not?

Training Bodybuilding
141

So i just read this entire thread some nice info I just want to summarize it to make sure i have it down:

Ramping up sets-
8reps
6-7reps
Final set - 6-10reps to failure
To help with hyptrophy can do widowmakers at the end 15-20reps, Is this rite?

Why not do widowmakers at the end of every last set of exercises?

And all of those Ramping up sets are considered working sets correct? You should have 3-4 sets left in the tank after doing each of those “ramping sets”?

If your not using “Heavy Weights” 300lbs and up you should only do about 2-3 ramping up sets?

142

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Just from what you posted that seems like he pyramids down, not ramping, Like all of his sets are heavy (for the rep range) working sets but he just makes sure his last one is to failure

he didn’t say that.

“When you’re lifting for football… do you lift to failure? This is just a general question and hopefully anyone with the knowledge for sports training can answer”

My goal is to be right at failure on my last rep. of each set.[/quote]

so? Thats not much different than 4x10 with the same weight having the last set to failure. He’s just going down in reps pyramiding. His sets prior to that last one are probably much heavier than what has been recommended here for ramping where the earlier sets aren’t supposed to be very taxing

143

it seems that every one of his sets are working sets, which is why his reps are dropping off.

Doing straight sets wouldnt take u to failure except in the last set.

interesting as this is opposite to the ramped 1 working set people have talked about a lot, he goes for a lot more volume.

144

no wait i was wrong, he ups the weight each set, so I think he only reaches failure on the last set

145

[quote]Anonymas wrote:
no wait i was wrong, he ups the weight each set, so I think he only reaches failure on the last set[/quote]

yea but I don’t think it is the same ramping we’re talking about

for example as far as intensity goes ramping would probably be about…

set 1: 5/10
set 2: 7/10
set 3: 8/10 (getting used to heavier weight)
set 4: 10/10

for him it’s probably like

set 1: 8/10
set 2-3: 9/10
set 4: 10/10

146

OH for fuck sake.

PYRAMID LOADING.

JoeSchmoe trains like this:

Bench Press: 5 sets: 10/8/6/4/2

10 x 185lb
8 x 285lb
6 x 365lb
3-4 x 385lb
1-2 x 400-410lb

He says he REACHES FAILURE, ON EACH SET.

8 x 285lbs = failure, or 1-2 reps short of it
6 x 365lb = failure
3-4 x 385lb = failure
1-2 x 400-410lb = failure

He increases his weight each set so he can fall within the listed rep ranges.

RAMPING OR FLAT PYRAMID LOADING:

Increasing weight each set until you reach an all out set of your final weight. Using the same number of reps each set

An example:

Bench press:

Set 1 - 90lbs x 8 (22.5lb plate each side of the bar)
Set 2 - 135lbs x 8 (45lb plate each side of the bar)
Set 3 - 180lbs x 8 (45lb plate and a 22.5lb plate each side of the bar)
Set 4 - 225lbs x 8 (Two 45lb plates each side of the bar)
Set 5 - 270lbs x 6-8 (Two 45lb plates and a 22.5lb plate each side of the bar - all out, to failure)

IF you are not that strong, go up using 11lb plates, or 11lb plates and a 6lb plate.

Please do not pull out a fucking calculator in the middle of the gym and start calculating %'s of your 1RM.

Who uses Pyramid loading?

Arnold used pyramid loading extensively, so did most of the pro’s back in the golden era. And given in the example above, so does that JoeSchmoe guy from bb.com

Who uses Flat pyramid loading (or ramping)?

C_C, Prof X, almost all of the IFBB pro’s today.

Volume:

Pyramid loading is A LOT more volume than flat pyramid loading.

Who should use each one?

Try each one and see what works for you.

I personally have made amazing results using flat pyramid loading. In 3 months my bench has gone from 135lbs for 5 reps to 245lbs for 7. I squat almost 4 plates, and deadlift 4 plates.

That does not mean regular pyramid loading isn’t good - you can find many examples of guys that used this and made good gains.

Regular pyramid loading would probably be better than ramping if you haven’t got very good mind-muscle connection, and need a few more work sets to get the hang of it.

If you still don’t know what the fuck the difference is, please read this article by CT:

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/locked_and_loaded

147

ye, his method has obviously given him great results, but seems more complicated to plan out unless your an experienced lifter, so I think I’ll see how the ramping goes for now

148

i didnt see where he said he went to failure on each set, but supposing he did, thats like 15 sets to failure per bodypart!

149

LOL

You guys have successfully made one of the simplest bodybuilding techniques extremely complicated.

150

[quote]mr popular wrote:
LOL

You guys have successfully made one of the simplest bodybuilding techniques extremely complicated.[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. I don’t get what people don’t get about it.

151

[quote]mr popular wrote:
LOL

You guys have successfully made one of the simplest bodybuilding techniques extremely complicated.[/quote]

…which implies they aren’t that bright.

They try turning simple concepts into calculus. It is no wonder so few people on this forum look built. They spend more time trying to “look” smart than they do in the gym making progress.

152

As for the (unnecessary) concerns about JoeSchmo, yes he does a lot of volume, yes he feels that heavy weight AND heavy volume give him the best results, no he did not start out that way.

He did the same 3x10 stuff that everybody starts out with, and over time he added more exercises/sets until you get to his current type of routine. His body adapted to more and more training over years, and who would argue with his results? The guy is crazy strong, and looks incredible.

I’m kind of a JoeSchmo expert (read: stalker).

153

I gotta admit, I was one of those guys who didn’t know how to really progress in bbing. I started out with the magazine stuff - blasting the shit outta my muscles 1x per week. I can remember vividly being in the first gym I trained at, an older guy who was fairly strong and in shape looked at me benching again on thursday and said “What, chest twice this week?” lol

I was doing the 12, 10, 8 shit but going to failure on all sets. Everything. After seeing some ok beginner gains (could have been much much better if I ramped from day 1…argh) I went to a powerlifting gym in Albany and tried a 3x3/5x5 mix which worked ok for some months, then I followed DC.

Strength gains have been great on this and it’s no wonder.

If I/when I go back to standard bbing I pretty much know exactly what i’m gonna do.

It’s so easy, but people (like myself) are so easily confused when they see the stuff written in the mags and are working out with guys that seem to be doing the “go to failure on all sets/real high volume” shit.

154

[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I gotta admit, I was one of those guys who didn’t know how to really progress in bbing. I started out with the magazine stuff - blasting the shit outta my muscles 1x per week. I can remember vividly being in the first gym I trained at, an older guy who was fairly strong and in shape looked at me benching again on thursday and said “What, chest twice this week?” lol

I was doing the 12, 10, 8 shit but going to failure on all sets. Everything. After seeing some ok beginner gains (could have been much much better if I ramped from day 1…argh) I went to a powerlifting gym in Albany and tried a 3x3/5x5 mix which worked ok for some months, then I followed DC.

Strength gains have been great on this and it’s no wonder.

If I/when I go back to standard bbing I pretty much know exactly what i’m gonna do.

It’s so easy, but people (like myself) are so easily confused when they see the stuff written in the mags and are working out with guys that seem to be doing the “go to failure on all sets/real high volume” shit.

[/quote]

its cause of how they word things. i used to go to failure on all my sets too and id do like 11 sets.

people are so astonished i can leave the gym in 30 mins. someone is always like hey didnt you just get here?

155

goodfellow I don’t know if that was to me but that’s basically exactly what I was saying, his method is not the ramping were talking about here at all.

Obviously worked for him though

156

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
I gotta admit, I was one of those guys who didn’t know how to really progress in bbing. I started out with the magazine stuff - blasting the shit outta my muscles 1x per week. I can remember vividly being in the first gym I trained at, an older guy who was fairly strong and in shape looked at me benching again on thursday and said “What, chest twice this week?” lol

I was doing the 12, 10, 8 shit but going to failure on all sets. Everything. After seeing some ok beginner gains (could have been much much better if I ramped from day 1…argh) I went to a powerlifting gym in Albany and tried a 3x3/5x5 mix which worked ok for some months, then I followed DC.

Strength gains have been great on this and it’s no wonder.

If I/when I go back to standard bbing I pretty much know exactly what i’m gonna do.

It’s so easy, but people (like myself) are so easily confused when they see the stuff written in the mags and are working out with guys that seem to be doing the “go to failure on all sets/real high volume” shit.

its cause of how they word things. i used to go to failure on all my sets too and id do like 11 sets.

people are so astonished i can leave the gym in 30 mins. someone is always like hey didnt you just get here?
[/quote]

Exactly. I shudder at the thought of how much more progress I could have made if I ramped up in weight from the get go. I’m in the same boat as many others though so no biggie.

As for the time; fuck yeah it drastically reduces your WO time. DC training keeps me in the gym for at least 1.5 hours but I don’t mind - I love being there.

If I go back to standard BBing, doing 2 muscle groups a day/4-6 working sets is gonna take me less than 1 hour.

157

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
goodfellow I don’t know if that was to me but that’s basically exactly what I was saying, his method is not the ramping were talking about here at all.

Obviously worked for him though[/quote]

It was to the 5 people that kept asking the same redudant questions.

158

I have only recently started ramping my sets. Before that I would go to failure on every single set which didn’t give me progress of any kind for very long. Then I realized I should probably not be doing that and added a lot more volume and a lot less failure which just resulted in it being more difficult to add weight to the bar.

I am really enjoying having 1 set of each exercise that I can just hammer out, and since adopting ramping I’ve been hitting PRs even during my cut. Works better for me, but honestly the way I trained before was pretty stupid and I’m sure most of my progress can be attributed to newb gains at eating enough rather than what I was doing in the gym.

159

Some pyramid, some don’t, blah blah blah.

Take home message: Because of the fact that the only things successful bodybuilders have in common are: hard work, progression, and nutrition, there are many ways to reach the same destination. As long as you have these three things in place, you can reach your size goals.

But it seems a large majority of bodybuilders pyramid up in weights, though.

160

Ok I’m convinced enough to try ramping sets vs. straight sets for the first time in my two years or so of training seriously.

I understand what PX is saying about 10 reps on the 3rd set can’t be working hard enough, although I kept my weights up by taking long rest periods.

I’ve got a couple of questions related to this and to the “Professor X request” thread as it pertains to a new split I’ll be implementing.

I think my chest is lagging behind my upper back development so I’m going to train it twice per week. I’ve also never trained abs directly so I’ll be adding that in. The new split will look like:

M Chest(upper), Abs

T Legs

W Back Thickness, Biceps

Th Chest(lower), tris, Abs

F off

Sat Shoulders, Back width Abs

Sun Off

Question 1 - how’s the split look? I figure shoulders and back width would be good to do together since military press and pull ups are vertical plane movements

Question 2 - this is probably a stupid question before I ask it, but on wednesday, should I def perform my rows before my bicep work even if my biceps are lagging and my back is one of my stronger points? Or could doing the bicep work first help due to fatigue which would force my back to do more work during the rows?

thanks…this thread has been insightful