Pyramid or Not?

Training Bodybuilding
161

[quote]davidtower wrote:
Ok I’m convinced enough to try ramping sets vs. straight sets for the first time in my two years or so of training seriously.

I understand what PX is saying about 10 reps on the 3rd set can’t be working hard enough, although I kept my weights up by taking long rest periods.

I’ve got a couple of questions related to this and to the “Professor X request” thread as it pertains to a new split I’ll be implementing.

I think my chest is lagging behind my upper back development so I’m going to train it twice per week. I’ve also never trained abs directly so I’ll be adding that in. The new split will look like:

M Chest(upper), Abs

T Legs

W Back Thickness, Biceps [/quote] Training back-thickness after legs… Uh-huh, not the best idea as most bt exercises involve the low-back in some way. I’d put backwidth here… You are splitting both chest and back into 2 days though, most prefer training just one bodypart twice and using a 5-way over 6 days. [quote]

Th Chest(lower), tris, Abs

F off

Sat Shoulders, Back width Abs

Sun Off

Question 1 - how’s the split look? I figure shoulders and back width would be good to do together since military press and pull ups are vertical plane movements [/quote] Doesn’t matter a whole lot, to be honest. I’ve trained shoulders before back on the same day for a long time… Whether you do vertical or horizontal movements after delts is of little consequence, just consider how it fits into your overall split. [quote]

Question 2 - this is probably a stupid question before I ask it, but on wednesday, should I def perform my rows before my bicep work even if my biceps are lagging and my back is one of my stronger points? Or could doing the bicep work first help due to fatigue which would force my back to do more work during the rows? [/quote] You can do biceps before back (yes, really, it works just fine if your back exercise technique is good and you can keep the bis out), but for most beginners and intermediates, that’s hard to do… You’re likely still using a lot of bicep/brachialis in your back work (particularly vertical movements) and would end up performing badly on your back stuff…

So I’d say do your back work first and work on perfecting your technique so that you’re actually using mostly your back on pull-ups/downs and the various row variants.
Chins though are always fairly bicep-intensive, can’t do much about it.

[quote]

thanks…this thread has been insightful[/quote]

It may be a better idea to start with a regular 4-way first and get used to the new methods, then maybe add 5th day where you repeat a bodypart of your choice…

Also, if your chest is lagging… Other than getting a lot stronger on chest work, you should consider your exercise technique there…

162

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
davidtower wrote:
Ok I’m convinced enough to try ramping sets vs. straight sets for the first time in my two years or so of training seriously.

I understand what PX is saying about 10 reps on the 3rd set can’t be working hard enough, although I kept my weights up by taking long rest periods.

I’ve got a couple of questions related to this and to the “Professor X request” thread as it pertains to a new split I’ll be implementing.

I think my chest is lagging behind my upper back development so I’m going to train it twice per week. I’ve also never trained abs directly so I’ll be adding that in. The new split will look like:

M Chest(upper), Abs

T Legs

W Back Thickness, Biceps Training back-thickness after legs… Uh-huh, not the best idea as most bt exercises involve the low-back in some way. I’d put backwidth here… You are splitting both chest and back into 2 days though, most prefer training just one bodypart twice and using a 5-way over 6 days.

Th Chest(lower), tris, Abs

F off

Sat Shoulders, Back width Abs

Sun Off

Question 1 - how’s the split look? I figure shoulders and back width would be good to do together since military press and pull ups are vertical plane movements Doesn’t matter a whole lot, to be honest. I’ve trained shoulders before back on the same day for a long time… Whether you do vertical or horizontal movements after delts is of little consequence, just consider how it fits into your overall split.

Question 2 - this is probably a stupid question before I ask it, but on wednesday, should I def perform my rows before my bicep work even if my biceps are lagging and my back is one of my stronger points? Or could doing the bicep work first help due to fatigue which would force my back to do more work during the rows? You can do biceps before back (yes, really, it works just fine if your back exercise technique is good and you can keep the bis out), but for most beginners and intermediates, that’s hard to do… You’re likely still using a lot of bicep/brachialis in your back work (particularly vertical movements) and would end up performing badly on your back stuff…

So I’d say do your back work first and work on perfecting your technique so that you’re actually using mostly your back on pull-ups/downs and the various row variants.
Chins though are always fairly bicep-intensive, can’t do much about it.

thanks…this thread has been insightful

It may be a better idea to start with a regular 4-way first and get used to the new methods, then maybe add 5th day where you repeat a bodypart of your choice…

Also, if your chest is lagging… Other than getting a lot stronger on chest work, you should consider your exercise technique there… [/quote]

Thanks for the response. When doing any back work I try as much as possible for the mind muscle connection, pull with my elbows, etc to keep the biceps out as much as I can.

Also, I learned that I’m more of an arm/shoulder bencher with barbells so I’ve switched to DB’s and have seen very good results so far. DB’s will also allow me to go balls out without a spotter as I train alone.

That’s a good point about not doing rows the day after leg day…I think I’ll likely make some changes however other than my cable rows, all of my heavy rows are done 1 arm at a time which cuts down on potential back pain (for me anyway)

Now I just need to figure out the target rep ranges that will work best for me for my ramped up work sets for each muscle group.

163

In Brick’s BB bible thread, he details the ramp that he would use for a 300lb squat for 3-4x8-10 like this:

Warm-up sets
95 x 15 (just go get loosened up and the blood flowing)
135 x 12 reps
185 x 8 to 10 reps

Ramp-up sets
215 x 8 to 10 reps
245 x 8 to 10 reps
275 x 8 to 10 reps

All-out blast set
300 x 8 to 10 reps

-He says he likes to keep the ramp ups in the same rep range as the last working set in order to get enough volume.

-I on the other hand have been doing it differently, as I don’t like so may reps on my ramp ups. I feel like if I did it like Brick(stay up in the rep range on ramp ups), I would be too fatigued for my last all out set. I don’t follow 5x5 or 3-4x8-12 or anything like that. I don’t count sets at all. Some exercises require more sets to get ready for the heavy weight than others. To me, the amount of sets you need depend on how heavy you can lift and that particular movement. So I do as many sets as I need(while keeping the reps low) to get ready for the big weight. Forcing yourself into 3x10 or any other predetermined rep/set scheme seems stupid and counter-productive to me. Prof X says that BB is more about biology and adapting, not using math equations to get big and strong. Forcing yourself to use something like 3x12-15 is relying on “math” and it may hold back progress. To me all that matters is progress in that 1 all out set at then end. From what I have read, Prof X and CC do it more like the way I do it…am I right?

315lb squat

empty bar- 10-12 reps to get loose
95lbs- 6-8 reps
135lbs- 5 reps
185lbs- 5 reps
225lbs- 5 reps
275lbs- 3-5 reps
work set- 315lbs for 8-12 reps or whatever rep range I’m looking to work in for a particular movement. Then maybe a back off set depending on how I feel. I don’t even keep track of the weights that I use on the ramp up sets. I just go up in increments that seem reasonable. The only number that I write down in my journal is the weight and reps I got on my top set.

X and CC…would you say you lift more like my method or Brick’s?