Pyramid or Not?

Training Bodybuilding
121

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
Scorzerci wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:

-shoulders- standing BB shoulder press, seated BB shoulder press, behind the head BB shoulder press, BB push press, wide grip upright row, handstand push-ups (feet against wall)
Regarding the upright rows, I’ve heard that these can easily mess up your shoulders. Any truth to that? I do them occasionally and don’t feel any pain from them, but to be completely honest I don’t think I’m moving enough weight on it for it to cause any problems.

You heard right. There is a chance of impingement in the shoulder from these. It might be safer on the shoulder to use DBs than a barbell.

Personally, I think there are alternatives that pose much less risk with equal benefit.

Again, it somewhat depends on the form used though. The traditional version (close grip, pulling the elbows very high and the bar to about chin level) does place a good amount of stress on the shoulder joint, and yes impingement is a definite possibility.

Using a wide grip and only pulling the elbows up to shoulder level on the other hand, will place about the same amount of stress on the shoulder joint as “L lateral raises”.

Here is Flex wheeler performing the “wide grip upright rows” that I am talking about (skip to about 4:40):

is that Charles Glass with him?
[/quote]

Yup.

122

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:
As a trainee becomes more advanced they will require more intensity over volume. Someone who’s been lifting for a year may require an upper/lower split, a Poliquinesque 5 day split, 4 sets of 10, 10 sets of 10, whatever to see the most gains. They will get stronger/bigger through repeated action. Some pro who’s been lifting for a decade and has a near maximum amount of strength may need much more intensity.

This is what I was trying to get at.

I’m just not sure of going from an all out set to 3-4, because I don’t want to waste any time in getting stronger/bigger.

3-4 would be a very low rep range to use if trying to build muscle. 4-8 would be as low as I would go, and even then I’d probably go higher (especially for certain muscle groups like quads and biceps).

As far as being worried about wasting time getting stronger/bigger, you really think that trying to do 10 sets with the same weight for 10 reps is going to result in faster strength gains than doing 1 all out set of 10? Really? And you really think that you’re going to be using anywhere near your true 10RM weight if you are trying to repeat that feat 9 more times in a relatively short period of time?

So, you’re going to be able to add weight to the bar much less infrequently, and you’re going to be starting from a much lower point from a strength perspective, and you really think that this is going to result in faster strength gains? Really Goodfellow? Really?

Uhh thats not what I meant.

“I’m just not sure of going from an all out set to 3-4, because I don’t want to waste any time in getting stronger/bigger.”

That was meant to read like this:

I am doing ‘one all out set’ right now.

I’m not sure if going from one all out set, to 3-4 SETS would be worthwhile.

And I am hesistant to try because I didn’t want to waste time.

[/quote]

Ahhhh, ok sorry for the misinterpretation. Carry on. :slight_smile:

123

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
I don’t know why people keep mis-interpreting my posts.

Maybe I’m giving off this vibe of being a go happy swiss ball loving guy.

I’m going to have to post some progress photos soon![/quote]

No, you don’t. That’s why I was so surprised when (I thought) I read your post.

124

Also my views are sealed in today after speaking to the gym owner, his name is steve

(been bodybuilding since he was 18, and he’s 6’1 300+lbs)

Me: Steve, should I try using the same weight for 3-4 sets, or sh-

Steve: Why the fuck would you use the same weight after you’ve already done it? Go heavier and heavier, always.

Steve: What are you doing now?

Me: Chest

Steve: Ok, definitely go heavier each set. Unless you are doing a lighter exercise at the end you can use the same weight a couple times.

Me: K

125

I just wanted to drop in and give my opinion of this silly ramping thing you’re all raving about.

I have spent the last couple of years using this method more or less exclusively. Unfortunately, now my arms are going on 18 inches and they are getting so big and heavy with all that unfunctional muscle tissue that I can barely lift them up to wash my hair in the morning.

Don’t even get me started on how I wipe my ass.

126

All I’m trying to get at is that there is no “gold program” that will lead you to ultimate hypertrophy. Yes there are “ranges” in which you should work at most of the time but dudes have gotten larger lifting anything from 1-100 reps. It’s all a matter of progression and overload.

127

Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.

128

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

On the subject of juice - It’s under my impression that steroids allow you to do more work and and/or recover faster.

So why don’t the guys on the juice do lots of volume instead of 3-4 working sets per workout (which is what mr.olympia’s do).

129

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Also my views are sealed in today after speaking to the gym owner, his name is steve

(been bodybuilding since he was 18, and he’s 6’1 300+lbs)

Me: Steve, should I try using the same weight for 3-4 sets, or sh-

Steve: Why the fuck would you use the same weight after you’ve already done it? Go heavier and heavier, always.

Steve: What are you doing now?

Me: Chest

Steve: Ok, definitely go heavier each set. Unless you are doing a lighter exercise at the end you can use the same weight a couple times.

Me: K[/quote]

that was actually Sentoguy

130

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

errrr

dontcha think that if you were doing a good program adding steroids would only make it better?

BBers dont do ramp sets b/c they are on juice, thats downright silly, now sit in the corner and think about what you just said.

131

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

How does your body operate completely different when you are on the juice? Do the fibers contract differently? Are neurons fired differently? Please explain your thoughts here.

132

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

Yeah…ok.

So, you really think that BB’ers use inferior methods of training to reach those physiques? You think that if these methods (like GVT) are so superior for building muscle that these pros wouldn’t be using them?

Besides, what do you think is harder on the recovery systems, doing 1 set or doing 10 sets? Yet you suggest that people who aren’t on performance enhancing drugs should do the more taxing system. Does that really make any sense?

Besides, you have numerous natural BB’ers who use the “pyramiding/ramping” model successfully (many of them from day 1). By your assertion, this shouldn’t happen because that only works for roid monkeys.

133

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Also my views are sealed in today after speaking to the gym owner, his name is steve

(been bodybuilding since he was 18, and he’s 6’1 300+lbs)

Me: Steve, should I try using the same weight for 3-4 sets, or sh-

Steve: Why the fuck would you use the same weight after you’ve already done it? Go heavier and heavier, always.

Steve: What are you doing now?

Me: Chest

Steve: Ok, definitely go heavier each set. Unless you are doing a lighter exercise at the end you can use the same weight a couple times.

Me: K[/quote]

The thing is, here we get arguments against it like it doesn’t work.

There is no way in hell someone is listening to their own body or growing optimally when they are simply doing some predetermined weight for “exactly” 10 reps. This shit is beyond stupid.

I know I have lifted what will stimulate growth because I use a weight that isn’t predetermined. If I could get 10 reps out of my last set, I would assume that I clearly need to increase the weight either next week or for the next exercise.

How are these people progressing when they are following some preset program more than they are following what their own body is capable of?

If you are stronger this week than last week, how would you know if you are simply lifting some weight you already chose to use instead of letting your strength decide?

134

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

Actually, JoeSchmo has always used pyramiding and traditional training styles, and he’s all natural:

Seems to be working for him.

135

[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.[/quote]

You are so ignorant.

136

[quote]mr popular wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.

Actually, JoeSchmo has always used pyramiding and traditional training styles, and he’s all natural:

Seems to be working for him.[/quote]

Is there a link to his training? I can’t find it.

137

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
mr popular wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:
Another point I have to make about the pink elephant in the room…

Any program used by someone roided to the gills is null and void to the non-users. To reach the peak in any sport it’s almost a necessity to be on something. Your body operates completely different when you’re on the juice. So saying that 100 Mr. Olympias do x, y, z really has no relevance to Joe Shmoe in the gym unless he’s also juicing. I’m not judging, you can do whatever you want, I’m just stating fact.

Actually, JoeSchmo has always used pyramiding and traditional training styles, and he’s all natural:

Seems to be working for him.

Is there a link to his training? I can’t find it.
[/quote]

Page 3:

Day 1 - Legs
Squats 1x(10,8,6,6,4)
Lunges 1x(12,12,10,10)
Stiff Legged Deadlift 3x10
Individual Leg Curls 1x(12,10,8)
Leg Extensions 4x10

Day 2 - Chest
Bench 1x(10,8,8,6,6)
Incline DB Press 1x(10,8,8,8,6)
Decline 1x(10,8,8,6)
Cable Crossovers 3x10
Dumbell Flies 2x12

Day 3 - Back
Deadlift 1x(10,8,8,8,6)
T-Bar Rows 1x(12,10,8,8,6)
Pulldowns 1x(10,8,8,6)
DB Rows 1x(10,10,8)
Extensions 2x10

Day 4 - Arms/Shoulders
(Routine for this varies…)

[i]"1. When you say “Bench 1x(10,8,8,6,6)” you mean 5 sets (1stset 10 reps, 2ndset 8 reps, 3rdset 8 reps, 4thset 6 reps, 5thset 6 reps) is this correct? If not please correct me

  1. Do you push to failure on all your sets or do you leave 1-2 reps in tank (please be as specific as possible)"[/i]

  2. Yes, you are correct.

  3. Well, I always try to finish my routine. If it means adjusting my weight so I can (i.e. getting just enough weight to do the last 6/8 reps, I’ll change my weight). My goal is to hit failure on the last rep no matter what.

138

Just from what you posted that seems like he pyramids down, not ramping, Like all of his sets are heavy (for the rep range) working sets but he just makes sure his last one is to failure

139

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Just from what you posted that seems like he pyramids down, not ramping, Like all of his sets are heavy (for the rep range) working sets but he just makes sure his last one is to failure[/quote]

he didn’t say that.

140

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Just from what you posted that seems like he pyramids down, not ramping, Like all of his sets are heavy (for the rep range) working sets but he just makes sure his last one is to failure

he didn’t say that. [/quote]

“When you’re lifting for football… do you lift to failure? This is just a general question and hopefully anyone with the knowledge for sports training can answer”

My goal is to be right at failure on my last rep. of each set.