[quote]matrick wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
Sometimes he does pull-ups but most of the time
he does Pulldowns. He does cable pulldowns
with around 350 pounds and machine pulldowns
with around 500 pounds.
What exactly is the difference between a cable and a machine lat pulldown?[/quote]
not sure, but maybe one type is a hammer strength plate loaded model and another your standard cable plate stack model.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Also, I’d like to throw out that there is no way to REDUCE the training load below bodyweight with a chin-up. If you want to do super-high reps, or drop-sets to exhaustion, it is impossible to do this with chin-ups unless you’re already a monster at it.
If you use one of those assisted chin stations or graviton machines, you are effectively making the motion the same as the pull-down, only with slightly less freedom of motion since your feet are now immobilized. You are now basically imitating a machine movement in one pattern. A cable might be superior if this is what you are doing.
There’s a time and place for everything.
I use both.
Also, it is worth noting that I can FEEL the movement more with pull-downs. This makes them valuable from a mind-muscle link standpoint.[/quote]
Good point, just wanted to mention bands and jumping pullups though.
It’s funny because this sentence
[quote]Hunt wrote:
You will start your back workout with some deads, chins and pull-ups and you will be doing lower weight good form pulldowns (with various grip widths) at the end to completely define and shred you back in certain spots and places. [/quote]
proved this sentence
Works for me man! Well “define” implies low fat % but still… I have gotten good results supplementing chins / pull-ups with machine / cable pulldowns at weights < bodyweight after I was no longer able to perform bodyweight chins. etc. They def have made my lats bigger than if I just quit because I couldn’t do anymore bodyweight reps. Pardon the misused terminology.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
I hope you are being sarcastic. Perhaps you or Mike Boyle can go tell Ed Coan, Kirk Karowski, Chuck Vogelpohl, Brian Siders, Andy Bolton etc. to their face that they are mentally weak for doing lat pulldowns.
But…but…but it’s an article. They can’t be wrong??
And you’re lying anyway. There’s no way Chuck coulda gone from 198 to one of the thickest looking 275’s out there. Look at his back. Couldn’t have been built by pulldowns.
No, of course not…[/quote]
Most of these guys built their impressive backs through doing tons of deadlifts, romanian deads, rack pulls, good morning’s, and bent-over rows. Lat pull-downs would have made a small contribution to their posterior development. Even Coach Poliquin, who doesn’t seem to like Boyle too much, agrees with him:
http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/back_to_basics_no_more_geek_back_training&cr=
However Dan John put it best, “If you cannot do a chin-up, why are you doing lat pull-downs?”
[quote]Mike Sammon wrote:
However Dan John put it best, “If you cannot do a chin-up, why are you doing lat pull-downs?”[/quote]
Errr, because it’s a very good way to build strength for your first pullup?
About pullups and sprinting ability, they can be used as predictor, because they can give you an idea of the relative strength/neural efficiency, but only for untrained/younger individuals. After some point, the specialization for the upper body-endurance exercise gives you nothing when you step on the track.
not to get off topic but what is the benefit of a mixed grip chin?
[quote]robo1 wrote:
not to get off topic but what is the benefit of a mixed grip chin?[/quote]
Functionality. It’s the grip you deadlift with so it makes sense to train it that way when doing chins. Duh!!