[quote]pgnCF wrote:
Zeb,
“Moreover, so I assume by not answering the part of my thread replying to your “who have they trained” query you admit that what crossfit does, for the segment of people it is intended for (i.e. not bodybuilders) is effective.”
It is indeed effective for some people as I have repeatedly stated. Some of them may even be famous. So what? As I stated umpteen times crossfit can give you a great cardio/endurance strength workout, as long as you know how to modify it, or only do it a short time as is. That does not mean that it is all things to all people, now does it? And that is pretty much what they claim!
“I think you’re fundamental dissatisfaction w/ crossfit lies in them not being proponents of the “traditional” conception of what it is to be fit, that it seems you grew up on. I will most certainly concede that a steady routine of pure lifting will produce more hypertrophy than performing the wods. And i do agree that if crossfit makes claims in contrast of that they are incorrect.”
No actually my fundamental dissatisfaction with crossfit lies with a multitude of problems some of which are: 1. Tries to be all things to all people. 2. Denegrates other forms of exercise. 3. Runs a Gestapo like web site. 4. Posts unrealistic daily routines that are actually meant to drive people to throw up. This leads to burnout, injury/sickness and basic disatisfaction.
The fact is you are spewing their hype almost directly from their site: “Many people don’t understand our way of looking at fitness, it’s brand new.” Bull! People have been doing a variety of things for fitness their entire lives. I actually grew up shoveling stone (for a relative). Did this from the age of 10 until I was old enough to get a real job.
Shoveled stone into a wheel barrow and then pushed the wheel barrow to the dumping area. Brought it back to the stone/dirt pile and did it all over again. Do you think that qualifies me for crossfit stardom? Ha ha. Seriously, I think folks have been getting into shape in a variety of ways through work and going to the Gym, long before crossfit ever entered the scene. They will be getting in shape long after crossfit is gone.
Fitness is different things to different people. If Glassman wants to say that fitness is being able to do a muscle up, or 10 of them for that matter, then that’s what fitness means to him. Has nothing to do with traditional or non traditional movements. There are also different types of “condition.” What do you think would happen if Lance Armstrong got into an odd object lifting contest with T-Nations own Brad Cardoza. Do you think Armstrong would win? He would be humiliated! In turn if Brad tried to take on Armstrong in a 50 mile bike race he would get destroyed. So, my friend which one is in shape?
Yes, you can train odd object lifting in addition to long distance bicycling. However, one will suffer won’t it? According to crossfit that is not the case. In the bizzaro land of crossfit they both just keep getting better and better. That’s nutty stuff my friend!
I have espoused my views on fitness on this forum more than one hundred times. If you want to be stronger you have to lift heavier weights. If you want to become larger you must do more volume. If you want to improve your cardio you have to focus on cardio (properly). There are many, many routines that verify this, written by some very exceptional strength coaches who have also worked with some very impressive clientele. Somehow you and some others suspend reality and swallow the pill that claims crossfit can do all things for all people. How many times, and by how many quality coaches does it have to be proven that this does not happen?
“However, the fundamental reason why the system is effective is because it ignores nothing.”
The reason that it is ineffective is because it tries to be all things to all people, and in fact claims that it is!
“While i’m sure you could put up weight in a whole slew of various movements, how would you do deadlifting something after a 800m run? would your chin numbers be just as good after a bunch of burpees? I respect their approach b/c as cliche as it sounds it does mirror real life, in a way that few things (perhaps strongman stuff, or highland games) really do. For my purposes, if I can Deadlift 4 wheels thats great! but when i need to do it after chasing someone in flight what will i do then? I guess it all comes down to a matter of what you are seeking…if you want to just look good nekkid and stack plates, then crossfit is not your best bet. If you want to be able to use your body effectively in most ranges of activity then its a good bet.[/quote]”
What you are stating is that crossfit is not for everyone, and that is my original point. It might be good for some, under certain conditions (oops already stated that, but at this point I already stated everything huh?). How many need to be able to deadlift after running around a track? Cops? Hmm.
How much is your deadlift harmed by running before hand? What if you ran on one day and deadlifted on another thus improving both to a higher degree? Who is to say if you improve your deadlift by 100 pounds, and also improve your running time by X amount of seconds (doing each on a separate day) you won’t be better in a real world situation? “Well gosh Zeb we need to know how strong you are after you run 800 meters cause coach said so” Really? How come? Do you think that mimics reality? Do you think cops have to run as fast as they can and then pick up a really heavy weight? And do you think they have to do this repeatedly? (Several sets and repetitions).
If you are a cop and want to train similar to reality I suggest that you go out to your car ride around for a couple of hours (perhaps while eating a sandwhich) and then (without any warm-up) jump out of your car and sprint 1/4 mile. Now that might mimic reality! That is what you are after right? You want reality. What if you got out of your car after two hours ran a 1/4 mile then practiced your fighting skills with a partner? That might duplicate reality. Does crossfit recommend that?
Okay, maybe I’m being a bit obstinate, however I hope you get the idea. When someone comes along and offers you the hole grail of fitness (as many have in the past) you have to question it my friend. I found that when you examine crossfit in a fair minded manner it comes up far short as compared to what it promises. This does not mean that elements of what they promote are not good.
In fact, the best lies ever told always have an element of truth: “I did not have sex with that women.” He seemed so darn convincing. I guess we didn’t know that Mr. Clinton did not look at oral sex as being real sex…lol you get the idea. Who can argue that running and doing deadlifts are bad?
It’s when you put them together (or any of the other combinations they love to tout) and claim that it’s the best possible way to train for all things it gets ridiculous.
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It’s not the best way to train to build muscle as you have admitted. However they claim that it is.
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It’s not the best way to train to gain sheer strength.
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It’s not the best way to train for track athletes.
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It’s not the best way to train for any specific sport without some serious modifications.
I hate to burst your bubble but you cannot be all things to all people! That is one very serious beef I have with the methodology. Those of us who have not swallowed the koolaide can see this. Those of you who have “taken the drink” will not see this.
With that said, I think crossfit works (as I have stated all along) for some types. If you are slightly overweight and want to get into shape then you can take the wod, modify it (there is that word again ‘modify’) and get into fine shape.
I guess we will save how they run their web site and why they put down other means of fitness for another day.
