[quote]CLewis wrote:
Programming: Reps, Sets, Frequency and Volume, You vs. Thib
Recommendations from Christian Thibaudeau:
For each exercise:
3 sets if working in the 8-10 range;
4 sets if working in the 6-8 range; and
5 sets if working in the 4-6 range.
Recommendations based on how many times you hit the gym/muscle group/week:
? Working each muscle group once a week: 3-4 sets of 4 exercises per muscle group (2 compounds, 2 isolation)
? Working each muscle group twice a week: 3-4 sets of 3 exercises per muscle group (2 compounds, 1 isolation)
? Working each muscle group three times a week: 3-4 sets of 2 exercises (1 compound, 1 isolation)
? Working each muscle group four times a week: 3-4 sets of 1 exercise (1 compound)
Keeping in mind that his recommendations are based in part of bodybuilding, do you agree or disagree - or do you prefer someone else’s parameters?[/quote]
Always trying to learn more, hear more perspectives - particularly when it comes to programming. I respect the opinions of many here on T-Nation and like to learn from their experience.
[quote]CLewis wrote:
Programming: Reps, Sets, Frequency and Volume, You vs. Thib
Recommendations from Christian Thibaudeau:
For each exercise:
3 sets if working in the 8-10 range;
4 sets if working in the 6-8 range; and
5 sets if working in the 4-6 range.
[/quote]
Why not do 4 sets of 7 one week, 3 sets of 8 the next, 4 sets of 8 the week after, and then 5 sets of 4 to round out the month?
[quote]
Recommendations based on how many times you hit the gym/muscle group/week:
? Working each muscle group once a week: 3-4 sets of 4 exercises per muscle group (2 compounds, 2 isolation)
? Working each muscle group twice a week: 3-4 sets of 3 exercises per muscle group (2 compounds, 1 isolation)
? Working each muscle group three times a week: 3-4 sets of 2 exercises (1 compound, 1 isolation)
? Working each muscle group four times a week: 3-4 sets of 1 exercise (1 compound)
Keeping in mind that his recommendations are based in part of bodybuilding, do you agree or disagree - or do you prefer someone else’s parameters?[/quote]
Again, you don’t have to engrave your movement selections in stone. Play with it week by week. If a bodypart is lagging, train that group more and then do “maintenance” with the rest of your body.
From the 2 responses, I obviously didn’t ask the question well. The question I’m asking is even more basic than the last response.
Let me give an example. Waterbury recommends doing 10 sets of 3 reps, which is clearly different than what Thibaudeau recommends. Obviously, as you recommended, you would use different ranges at different times. The point is whether what he recommends (how many sets for those specific rep ranges) makes since.
For the other example, others recommend only ONE compound exercise per muscle group each week. The question was, in part, even once you have figured out how many sets you’re doing, how many exercises do you do per muscle group?
[quote]CLewis wrote:
From the 2 responses, I obviously didn’t ask the question well. The question I’m asking is even more basic than the last response.
Let me give an example. Waterbury recommends doing 10 sets of 3 reps, which is clearly different than what Thibaudeau recommends. Obviously, as you recommended, you would use different ranges at different times. The point is whether what he recommends (how many sets for those specific rep ranges) makes since.
For the other example, others recommend only ONE compound exercise per muscle group each week. The question was, in part, even once you have figured out how many sets you’re doing, how many exercises do you do per muscle group?
[/quote]
[quote]CLewis wrote:
From the 2 responses, I obviously didn’t ask the question well. The question I’m asking is even more basic than the last response.
Let me give an example. Waterbury recommends doing 10 sets of 3 reps, which is clearly different than what Thibaudeau recommends. Obviously, as you recommended, you would use different ranges at different times. The point is whether what he recommends (how many sets for those specific rep ranges) makes since.
For the other example, others recommend only ONE compound exercise per muscle group each week. The question was, in part, even once you have figured out how many sets you’re doing, how many exercises do you do per muscle group?
[/quote]
It depends on what you are lifting for. If symmetry and aesthetics are highly important to you, go with Thibs. His recommendations are geared to bodybuilders. If you are lifting for strength (for sport or just because) go with Waterbury. Apart from that, other considerations are how much other exercise you are doing and what type, your recovery ability and the recovery modalities you have access to. Oh, and how much time you have available.
I know where your coming from, but I found what is important is change and most often more difficult. Wiether it is more weight, more reps, more sets, less rest, or more explosive. CT’s parameters are good. If it is something new for you try it out.
[quote]jet9153 wrote:
I know where your coming from, but I found what is important is change and most often more difficult. Wiether it is more weight, more reps, more sets, less rest, or more explosive. CT’s parameters are good. If it is something new for you try it out.[/quote]
Yes, I understand where you’re coming from also. My post was more about the variety of exercises. I agree on the need to change things up frequently. However, I rarely do more than 5 reps, and mostly use compound exercises. I tend to use waves for the weight, or else work up to a near max double or single. Just what I like. I don’t really care if the results are suboptimal from aesthetic perspectives. I mainly lift because I enjoy lifting. I don’t enjoy high rep lifting.
I tend to agree with all of you. I think my original question just sucked. The idea is this: I think I’m correct in assuming that the fewer reps you do, the more sets you need to do that day. Thib suggested one bunch of ranges as a guideline for how to adjust them. I was asking if his guidelines held true. Regardless of whether you like heavy weights or not, he suggested a certain number of sets if you’re lifting low reps. My question was whether that was appropriate.
Yes, Thib’s recommendations are in the ballpark. Waterbury is in the same ballpark if you think about it. (Thibs doesn’t talk about how many sets if you go down to 3 reps, but given he suggests 5 sets for the 4-6 rep range, 8-10 sets might be about right for 3 reps.)
I tend to use 8-10 5 rep sets if I am using 5 reps, but I am usually doing fewer exercises than Thib is envisaging.
Waterbury has an article somewhere in which he suggests 18 to 50 reps as the optimum range for total reps for an exercise (for hypertrophy). The total number of reps will depend on the intensity and the number of reps/set.
[quote]CLewis wrote:
I tend to agree with all of you. I think my original question just sucked. The idea is this: I think I’m correct in assuming that the fewer reps you do, the more sets you need to do that day. Thib suggested one bunch of ranges as a guideline for how to adjust them. I was asking if his guidelines held true. Regardless of whether you like heavy weights or not, he suggested a certain number of sets if you’re lifting low reps. My question was whether that was appropriate.[/quote]
There is no concrete answer to this question. You have to experiment to see what works for you. Take a program here, and follow it to the letter for a few months. Give it an honest effort. If it doesn’t give you the results you’re looking for, dump it and try something else.
[quote]Doug Adams wrote:
CLewis wrote:
I tend to agree with all of you. I think my original question just sucked. The idea is this: I think I’m correct in assuming that the fewer reps you do, the more sets you need to do that day. Thib suggested one bunch of ranges as a guideline for how to adjust them. I was asking if his guidelines held true. Regardless of whether you like heavy weights or not, he suggested a certain number of sets if you’re lifting low reps. My question was whether that was appropriate.
There is no concrete answer to this question. You have to experiment to see what works for you. Take a program here, and follow it to the letter for a few months. Give it an honest effort. If it doesn’t give you the results you’re looking for, dump it and try something else.
[/quote]
Goodness. Any program should produce results assuming you are actually training a muscle frequently enough, hard enough and eating enough to support any growth. If you are half assing any one of those your “results” will be limited.
The only routines that I give little to no credit to are insane HIT routines I’ve read from some people where they only train once a week or less.
I don’t think Thib’s recommendations are bad as a starting point.
Obviously if you are trying to bring up a lagging body part, you will want to train it more frequently and more intensely while maintaining the rest of the body. But if everything is in reasonable proportion, then give his set/rep scheme a try and tweak it from there.
One comment that you’ll get from many people is that they only do one or two movements but use a higher number of sets. For example, 8 or 10 sets of 3-5 reps on bench. This isn’t much different than doing 2 similar exercises, bench and incline (or bench and DB’s) for 4-5 sets each. But it is the difference between a BB’er who is looking to hit a muscle from every angle possible, and a PL’er who is primarily focused on improving strength in a specific lift.
Then general rule is:
High weight, low reps, high sets.
Low weight, high reps, low sets.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Any program should produce results assuming you are actually training a muscle frequently enough, hard enough and eating enough to support any growth. If you are half assing any one of those your “results” will be limited.
[/quote]
Well said. There it is. The magic formula.
I’ve always said that if you take a “less than optimal” program but train frequently and intensely, you will have much better results than the “perfect” program that you half ass.