Program for Beginner Gains?

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Ok here’s a video of me squatting 315 lbs it was from a few weeks ago before I hurt my back.[/quote]

What was the reason you were doing a 1 rep max in this video?[/quote]
It was a joker set after I had hit a PR I could have gone much heavier because this felt easy but the gym was going to close soon and I had to do Boring But Big. [/quote]

That looked far more like a max attempt than a training lift from my perspective.

Do you psyche up before heavy lifts?

Yes I listen to music that pumps me up.

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Yes I listen to music that pumps me up and I curse at myself. [/quote]

I don’t think you understand the point of the question.

I guess not…

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Yes I listen to music that pumps me up and I curse at myself. [/quote]

Consider stopping that and only saving it for max attempts. Lifting in an emotionally aroused state can be very taxing and difficult to recover from, and can easily explain the difficulty you’ve had in progressing.

Aim to be tight, focused, and on point, but not psyched up. If you find yourself fearing the weight, getting angry, breathing fast, heart racing, etc before a lift, you may be too “up”.

Alright thank you for the advice, I will keep it in mind.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
I was using 85’s and yes I do need coaching because 5/3/1 isn’t really getting me anywhere.[/quote]

… a couple things. I didn’t mean you need coaching for programming needs. You need coaching on your form. 5/3/1 isn’t ‘dangerous’ by any means. Wendler came up with the program as a means to come back from injury. Which means, if anything, it’s one of the more reliably safe programs in existence.

Beyond this though, what do farmers walks have to do with the basics of 5/3/1? If you were running 5/3/1, then the farmers walks would have been implemented as assistance work. Assistance work should NEVER result in injury. It should be done using weights that essentially can’t hurt you.

Have you read the actual 5/3/1 manual? If that’s indeed the program you are running, you need to learn what is and what isn’t essential to the program. Don’t rely on internet forums for this information. Get it straight from Wendler.[/quote]

I’d have to disagree with the dangerous part, just because I have experience with it, and I’ll tell you why I disagree.

5/3/1 is dangerous to the inexperienced lifter, or the beginner, or someone with not proper form (which is all the above). I kept injurying myself on deadlift day for months upon months. I had lower back issues for 10 years, got it fixed, started the program, kept hurting my back again, blamed it on my back…wrong!

What I would do is try to get that last rep, or that last 2 reps, to break a PR, which is what 5/3/1 is all about. It felt awesome to pull, say, 385 for 8 one week, then 395 for 9 the next. You could see the progress, get really stoked for that final lit, etc.

problem is, in order to push out those last couple reps the form falls to just absolute shit. Notice, this is for inexperienced lifters, which I considered myself at the time (and still do, I can only pull around 5, squat around 5, bench around 330. But, more importantly, I’ve only been doing this for about 8 months. After 2 years, I’ll consider myself experienced).

So, I always cringe when I see newbies doing 5/3/1, because man, it works great, but the nature o the workout is pushing yourself past what you did last week, and for me at least, that meant failing on form.

Which is all the reason why the OP needs coaching on form, not program, maybe not even food, just form work. You may think your form is good, but it’s probably not. I know mine still needs work, but I haven’t been injured in 5 months, and all I see is gains!

And, OP, from my lower back issues, I found that working it was better than not. Meaning, I’d get hurt from going too hard, but simply resting it made things worse. I’d go back into light assistance work / lighter deadlift work. If I hurt it doing 405x5, then I’d do 315x3 the next week or something similar. But, not doing anything made it just terrible.

Strengthening the lower back muscles is what fixed me, good mornings, Romanian deadlifts, deadlifts, stiff legged deadlift, etc. Try that during your rehab period, maybe it will help with recovery.

Oh, and when you think you are healed, give it two more weeks.

[quote]dzirkelb wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
I was using 85’s and yes I do need coaching because 5/3/1 isn’t really getting me anywhere.[/quote]

… a couple things. I didn’t mean you need coaching for programming needs. You need coaching on your form. 5/3/1 isn’t ‘dangerous’ by any means. Wendler came up with the program as a means to come back from injury. Which means, if anything, it’s one of the more reliably safe programs in existence.

Beyond this though, what do farmers walks have to do with the basics of 5/3/1? If you were running 5/3/1, then the farmers walks would have been implemented as assistance work. Assistance work should NEVER result in injury. It should be done using weights that essentially can’t hurt you.

Have you read the actual 5/3/1 manual? If that’s indeed the program you are running, you need to learn what is and what isn’t essential to the program. Don’t rely on internet forums for this information. Get it straight from Wendler.[/quote]

I’d have to disagree with the dangerous part, just because I have experience with it, and I’ll tell you why I disagree.

5/3/1 is dangerous to the inexperienced lifter, or the beginner, or someone with not proper form (which is all the above). I kept injurying myself on deadlift day for months upon months. I had lower back issues for 10 years, got it fixed, started the program, kept hurting my back again, blamed it on my back…wrong!

What I would do is try to get that last rep, or that last 2 reps, to break a PR, which is what 5/3/1 is all about. It felt awesome to pull, say, 385 for 8 one week, then 395 for 9 the next. You could see the progress, get really stoked for that final lit, etc.

problem is, in order to push out those last couple reps the form falls to just absolute shit. Notice, this is for inexperienced lifters, which I considered myself at the time (and still do, I can only pull around 5, squat around 5, bench around 330. But, more importantly, I’ve only been doing this for about 8 months. After 2 years, I’ll consider myself experienced).

So, I always cringe when I see newbies doing 5/3/1, because man, it works great, but the nature o the workout is pushing yourself past what you did last week, and for me at least, that meant failing on form.

Which is all the reason why the OP needs coaching on form, not program, maybe not even food, just form work. You may think your form is good, but it’s probably not. I know mine still needs work, but I haven’t been injured in 5 months, and all I see is gains!
[/quote]

from the 5/3/1 manual: “I hesitate to tell anyone to do anything to failure, because thatâ??s not what Iâ??m after. I wouldnâ??t prescribe this.”…“On the last set, however, youâ??ll have to reach further and grind it out â?? not to failure so youâ??re dead and canâ??t train the rest of the week, but it should take some life out of you.”

It sounds like you need to re-read the program if you believe that doing sets to the point of absolute shit form is what 5/3/1 is all about. Wendler states that rep PR’s are a goal, not a necessity. The problem here is not the program, it’s the implementation of shitty form that violates the spirit of the program. Pretty huge difference.

[quote]dzirkelb wrote:
And, OP, from my lower back issues, I found that working it was better than not. Meaning, I’d get hurt from going too hard, but simply resting it made things worse. I’d go back into light assistance work / lighter deadlift work. If I hurt it doing 405x5, then I’d do 315x3 the next week or something similar. But, not doing anything made it just terrible.

Strengthening the lower back muscles is what fixed me, good mornings, Romanian deadlifts, deadlifts, stiff legged deadlift, etc. Try that during your rehab period, maybe it will help with recovery.

Oh, and when you think you are healed, give it two more weeks.[/quote]

I do agree with this whole heartedly. My back feels much better when I’m training it consistently.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]dzirkelb wrote:
And, OP, from my lower back issues, I found that working it was better than not. Meaning, I’d get hurt from going too hard, but simply resting it made things worse. I’d go back into light assistance work / lighter deadlift work. If I hurt it doing 405x5, then I’d do 315x3 the next week or something similar. But, not doing anything made it just terrible.

Strengthening the lower back muscles is what fixed me, good mornings, Romanian deadlifts, deadlifts, stiff legged deadlift, etc. Try that during your rehab period, maybe it will help with recovery.

Oh, and when you think you are healed, give it two more weeks.[/quote]

I do agree with this whole heartedly. My back feels much better when I’m training it consistently.
[/quote]

Concur. Very heavy partials and reverse band full ROM work have been crucial to injury recovery for me.

Right now it hurts to bend over so I think I should wait a while until I start deadlifting or squatting again.

[quote]BangkokHustle wrote:
Right now it hurts to bend over so I think I should wait a while until I start deadlifting or squatting again. [/quote]

Whenever I experience that feeling, I reach the exact opposite conclusion, but you ultimately know your body better than we do.

What is your current gameplan to get yourself healthy enough to squat and deadlift again?

I will start upper body training again next week but I might start on Friday. I am going to work my legs with the machines for a couple more weeks before I start to do real squats and deadlifts. I’ll do a lot of foam rolling on my back and lower back stretches. I’ll see how my lower back feels and I might do some back extensions also to keep my lower back working.

I’m also kind of thinking that my lower back might have been strained because of it being overly arched. I need to learn how to squat correctly by keeping myself upright while maintaining a straight back.

If your goal is to be upright when you squat, you need to do high bar. Right now, you are low bar.

I don’t think I can do high bar because my vertebrae are in the way when I do low bar I can rest the bar on my rear delts.

The bar should be on top of your traps for high bar, not on your vertebrae.

I prefer low bar personally, but if you do it, you won’t be upright. You will have a forward lean.

One of the guys in my gym told me that low bar squatting won’t help me as much as high bar in sports performance, is this true?

I do not know if it is true that he told you that.

If that guy seemed worth listening to, I would listen to him.