Problems with squat on volume (vs. bench not)

Hello,

I have really troubles squatting high volume, not the muscles themselves (they could have done 15 reps more), but to keep the tention, to breath, to keep good technique etc. dont you dont get injured. After about 5th rep, it begins to get horrible, no really matter which weight it is (in a related and serious intensity range)

I’m doing my first time Juggernaut Training System, and the 5x10 is simply killing me, even with only 100kg. my 2RM is 180kg (natty) at 90kg bodyweight. I need the sleeves and belt even more, then on any 160kg by 4 set even tough this is actually way more stress.

I’m not sure how to deal with it, does anyone else has that some problem?
Thinking about just decrease the programm 1RM by 20kg or so, then it would be 90kg 5x10. It really has to be that much less weight that I can manage it. but just drop a few reps and I can add a ton of weight more :smiley:

on the other side, benching is completly opposite. not any problem with 80kg 5x10, it burns and feels amazing, and it is possible. benching becomes then more difficult on less then 3-4 reps, because the triceps is simply not strong enough and is the lack in the chain.

I’m not sure if I should even replace that high volume part from Juggernaut with something different.

Im curious to know your body structure. Mostly femur length and torso length along with your squat form and style.

yes I have longer femur compared to torso, which of course makes squatting always kind of difficult. Deadlift on the other hand, I’m way stronger (long arms as well, good lever)

today I had squat day again, now I can describe it a bit deeper.
it is still that 10reps range, beginning with 85 x 5 / 95kg x 5 and then 105kg 3x10, last as amrap.
I modified it a bit as a trial, I did 85x5 / 95x5 / 105x10 and then the 105kg amrap (12 reps hit) and then took 125kg x 5. Those both 10 rep sets killed me again, especially the amrap. 125x5 was way easier, ok after all those reps done before, it was kind of hard in terms of muscle burn, but not really hard in terms of coordination/technique/fatique/breathing. actually not really harder then the 95x5 except that muscle burns from the reps before. 6th rep is still possible, but after that, I begin to die and breath like somewhat :smiley: no really matter which weight. it would be same at 80kg or 100kg, maybe 80kg a tiny bit easier, because it is less, but not much.

so I really think, this might not be the best rep range for me. I will still try to follow the programm, 8reps phase is almost there, light in the shadow :smiley:

I think your goal in training is to improve vs demonstrate. I’ll bet you get better in this rep range by doing it. Sounds like you plan on working through it, so good stuff!

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Yep that how it normally rolls …

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A video of you squatting would be helpful if you are seeking to perfect your squat efficiency.

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Reduce the weight and do all 10 reps. Some guys suggest starting Juggernaut 5 x 10 with 50% weights, so your plan of 90kg is probably perfect.

Don’t worry about the “best rep range for you” or doing the heaviest possible weights right now. Just do the 10s and practice dealing with the burning muscles and Not dying. Feeling less and less like dying workout to workout is a pretty good indicator of progress when you’re doing high volume work.

Like you said, the time for focusing on pushing weights will be in the future, when the reps are lower. So now, use This time to focus on the “energy systems” and “hypertrophy” with the 10s.

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This is very interesting, since for me it’s harder to keep good form and tightness in long bench sets.

Squats are of course harder in any other matter, but I can always take new breath when standing. When I start breathing with bench, it’s game over soon.

With squats, it is much easier to re-brace during a breath at the top. With the bench press, it is much more difficult to re-brace with a breath at the top

A maximum volume of air in your lungs allows you to attain the maximum bracing for the bench press. Once you breathe you cannot retrieve that maximum bracing that you had before you placed the weight in your hands.

My guess is that OP does not have an efficient squat form as yet.

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think your goal in training is to improve vs demonstrate. I’ll bet you get better in this rep range by doing it. Sounds like you plan on working through it, so good stuff!

nope it isnt, I’m mainly training in my homegym :smiley: yes I wanna try to follow along the program.

A video of you squatting would be helpful if you are seeking to perfect your squat efficiency.

here is the video, but I have to say a few words:

I have changed my whole squatting style last autumn, I always tend to put the hips very far back like equipped lifters doing, but this made problems in terms of depth. A guy in the gym (who lifted 350kg at 90kg..) showed my different style, still low bar or better said “lower bar” but also with knees driving wide forward over the knees. way better quad activation and gains, and no depth problems and also almost no hip-hurt-problems. it tooks a while to getting stronger with it, now I’m on a good way, and started to try sleeves.

they are complete game changers for me, and after a while I noticed why (not about the support itself). here you find 2 screenshots from older videos, with and without sleeves. my knees are in way better position with sleeves, and the whole body and bar position is also better. w/o sleeves, I struggle falling forward, lot of tension problems etc.

But I meanwhile know how to handle that, still room for improvement, but the course is the correct one, which you can also see on the video. and keep in mind, this is my horrible rep range, in relation to that, I’m really quite happy :smiley:

first set is 105kg x 10 reps w/o sleeves/belt, 2nd set is 125 x 5 reps on the same day with sleeve/belt (the difference is not that big anymore then on the screenshots), unfortunately I’ve missed press record for the amrap set at 105kg with sleeves to have a comparison at same intensity… last paused set was 1 month ago with 127,5kg - the technique was a bit better I think.

Video

Reduce the weight and do all 10 reps. Some guys suggest starting Juggernaut 5 x 10 with 50% weights, so your plan of 90kg is probably perfect.
Don’t worry about the “best rep range for you” or doing the heaviest possible weights right now. Just do the 10s and practice dealing…

yes that sound like a plan, even though it is really hard like described before. it is mainly endurance and breathing problem, I could also drop another 10kg and it still would hurt.. especially with long femur and general technique difficulties.

This is very interesting, since for me it’s harder to keep good form and tightness in long bench sets.

no for me not, benching only difficult in low rep range. in squatting, you easy hold tention for a few reps and put a lot of wheight, in bench, I cannot, is it is the triceps who limits me.

With squats, it is much easier to re-brace during a breath at the top. With the bench press, it is much more difficult to re-brace with a breath at the top

it is something completly different for me. of course, squat on top, you just stand “still” I know what you mean, whereas on bench, you need to hold the wheight there. but my problem after 5 reps + in squat, is that my whole endurance is getting less and less. even after put down the weight, I sit there for 2-3 minutes and almost die…

Maybe it’s an endurance problem then? Tens in squats suck, and they’ve left me gasping air afterwards several times.

Maybe we are all just different. I believed that 10 reps were optimal for thigh hypertrophy, so 10 rep squats came easy as far as endurance is concerned. I did all quad focused thigh work for 10 reps. I did 5 rep squats in a strength building phase, but that was for the sole purpose of using greater weight on hypertrophy training. (20 rep squats is a completely different monster.)

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Maybe it’s an endurance problem then? Tens in squats suck, and they’ve left me gasping air afterwards several times.

yes it is, but it is almost same for every people when squatting high volume. I drive 1500-2000km with my gravel-bike each year, so I have kind of endurance base, but this doesnt help anything related to squat endurance, as it is the breathing/bracing, holding tention etc. which makes it that hard.

here is the video from previous post again, I have changed a setting, everyone should be able to open it now without sign in to Microsoft account

video link new

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Squats looked decent at least to my eye. Some minor technical errors, but nothing that stops you from squatting.

Mayber take few kgs off and build up the weights as you get used to the high rep squats.

Surely we are. Some are more prone to higher reps than others. And surely you can condition yourself to an certain rep range.

I cannot agree that 10 rep squats is in the high rep range. IMO, 10 reps is simply an optimal rep range for hypertrophy. I know powerlifters don’t like doing over 5 reps on squats.

If you are a competitive powerlifter, I appreciate you not liking or doing reps over 5. For everyone else, I just scratch my head. And there is definitely no successful bodybuilder who struggles at the thought of 10 rep squats.

Do you likewise have trouble with 10 reps on the leg press? How does a 20 rep leg press feel?

Like this? https://youtube.com/shorts/TeAOd1YJBuk?si=eVTCY_6B_1lcyY6g

I agree that PL and WL are probably only groups that can pussy out from high rep squat sets. But high rep squats aren’t uncommon even among strength athletes. Hooper is a strongman, so he of course needs a lot of muscle endurance.

I felt that I never trained “high” reps. I am amazed that 10 reps falls in the high rep category.

If I were to categorize rep ranges:

  1. Low reps is 1 to 5 reps
  2. Moderate reps is 6 to 12 reps
  3. High reps is over 12 reps

Low reps build strength
Moderate reps build size
High reps IMO are a waste of time

Though I never was interested in Strongman contests, I can imagine that endurance is much more important than that required in Powerlifting contests.

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I think I would say the same.

It depends on the movement and context too though. 10s in deadlifts start to be high reps, in O-lifts 6s are already high reps. In cable tricep extensions anything under 10 feels low reps, for me at least.

Training for bodybuilding contests I did two sets of 10 reps in the deadlift after doing bent over rows year round. I used a weight that allowed all 10 reps at the same tempo. Probably left 2 or 3 reps in the tank. I did not feel like those were high reps. Now I did try 20 reps with 405lbs once just to see if I could do it. My form stayed good all 20 reps, but I would call those high reps.

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When is it acceptable to say “10 reps squats aren’t a great fit for me” and use assistance exercises or pre-exhaust or belt squats for high rep quad work?

How bad do squats workouts have to be before it’s Better to leg press or a leg extension/goblet squat superset?

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