Hi, i’ve currently changed my routine from the 20 rep squat routine, this routine requires you to breathe between reps, now I’ve changed routine to a bodybuilding split I’ve got into a habit of resting with the bar still on my back when trying to hit my 3x10, I feel like I’m cheating by resting, should I stop this or is it ok?
Thanks
If I understood you correctly… You were doing 20 reps breathing squats, and now you’re doing a bodybuilding routine with 3x10.
If you’re doing a bodybuilding routine with squats, the goal is usually to maximize the time under tension. When you’re standing there with the bar on your back, it doesn’t really count as “time under tension”.
In my opinion, you’d be best to pick a weight light enough to do 10 reps of squats without stopping. Rack the bar, rest for 60-90 seconds. And repeat twice.
If you can’t do that with the weight you’re currently using, lower the weight until you can. As you get better at it, you can slowly add weight to the bar as long as you’re still able to do it without stopping and with short rest periods.
x2 all that. ^
You shouldn’t really “need” to take a breather/rest during a set of 10, especially if you’re training “bodybuilding-style”. If you’re going 110% balls out, then you might take a quick break (for a breath or two) between the last one or two reps to grind them out, but the majority of the time, I’d say you should be able to get through 10 straight. Stopping for a “rest” is a correctable bad habit in this instance.
I think you’re referring to a rest pause, and there’s nothing wrong with it. As long as you’re going for deep squats without compromising the rigidity of your torso and hips. Just having the load on your back will provide enough stimulus to increase strength.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
I think you’re referring to a rest pause, and there’s nothing wrong with it. As long as you’re going for deep squats without compromising the rigidity of your torso and hips. Just having the load on your back will provide enough stimulus to increase strength. [/quote]
No.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
I think you’re referring to a rest pause, and there’s nothing wrong with it.[/quote]
He’s pretty clearly talking about simply resting during a set of 10, which is very different from rest-pause. Other than during 20-rep squats, very few people would recommend true rest-pause training with squats - reaching muscular failure, resting briefly, and then continuing the set. The risk:reward is generally considered not worth it.
Do you mean core strength or leg strength? In this context and with the weight he’s using (a 10-rep max or lighter), there won’t be much stimulus for “strength gains” either way. And from what we know, he’s not currently training to increase strength, so it’s a non-factor.
Thank you for the clear response Chris. How did you deduce that he is not training for strength? And even if he isn’t, don’t you think building strength would play a definitive role in his hypertrophy?
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
Thank you for the clear response Chris. How did you deduce that he is not training for strength? And even if he isn’t, don’t you think building strength would play a definitive role in his hypertrophy? [/quote]
Because he said it…
[quote]DamianWalker wrote:
I’ve changed routine to a bodybuilding split[/quote]
But for a more helpful answer, if he’s working with a weight he can do for 3 sets of 10, in the very best case he’s working with a true 10RM (so 70-75%), and more realistically, he’s only working with 65% or lower.
You can build hypertrophy at that level of intensity, but strength gains generally require work in at least the high 70% to mid 80% range. In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
Now, there’s certainly an amount of stability (stability strength?) that can be built isometrically from holding heavy weights, but those percentages/RMs are right around what’s been shown to work consistently and effectively for most people.
If you look at more and more strength programs, you can see the patterns. The variation of volume and intensity changes by programs, but the average intensity almost always comes out to 75-85% for the main work, and a little lower if you include all warmup-ramp sets.
Sets of 10 don’t come anywhere near that.
Also I suppose important to note. Strength gains can also come from hypertrophy. Increase the size of a muscle, you can get stronger. Because of this, hypertrophy training is an integral part of most strength programs too.
But this is a different thing than “training for strength”.
[quote]Jarvan wrote:
How did you deduce that he is not training for strength?[/quote]
When he said he’s using a “bodypart split” and “3x10”, it lead me to believe that building strength wasn’t his current number one priority. Also, I’ll admit it’s a bit of a reach, but when he says “it feels like I’m cheating by resting”, I hear that the rest is making the set easier rather than increasing the challenge to his system. Granted, we have a really tiny amount of info to go on, but with what’s been provided, that’s the best guess.
Yes and no because there are different paths to increased strength and/or size. It’s possible to build muscle without significantly increasing strength, and it’s possible to build strength without increasing size. It’s all a matter of programming - mostly load, intensity, and volume. (Nutrition being a whole 'nother can of worms.)
While a “best of both worlds” approach might seem common sensical to most of us, some guys just don’t care about one or the other, for their own reasons. Some folks also believe in periodizing their training, focusing exclusively on one attribute before moving on to focus on another. It’s not exactly the most current or popular training approach, but it’s been around quite a while.
Also, we don’t know the results of his work with the 20-rep squats and that could be a factor. Maybe he worked up to 405x20 and wants to use the 3x10 to give his joints a break. Lots of unknown variables, again because we don’t have much info to go on. We’re all only interpreting those three or four lines he gave us.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
[/quote]
My own personal experiences have run counter to this honestly. I feel like it’s very much programming and movement dependent.
Are you saying anything higher than 6 reps won’t yield strength gains… Because I greatly disagree.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
[/quote]
My own personal experiences have run counter to this honestly. I feel like it’s very much programming and movement dependent.[/quote]
Meh, I was just trying to get past the “if the guy says he’s doing a bodybuilder routine AND he’s doing 3x10 squats, his primary goal is probably not strength.”
But I said too much/said it poorly, and that’s what happens, lol.
That being said, I would be interested in you elaborating on that. I’ve certainly gotten stronger in several rep ranges.
Which movements have you found more benefit in higher rep ranges?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
[/quote]
My own personal experiences have run counter to this honestly. I feel like it’s very much programming and movement dependent.[/quote]
Meh, I was just trying to get past the “if the guy says he’s doing a bodybuilder routine AND he’s doing 3x10 squats, his primary goal is probably not strength.”
But I said too much/said it poorly, and that’s what happens, lol.
That being said, I would be interested in you elaborating on that. I’ve certainly gotten stronger in several rep ranges.
Which movements have you found more benefit in higher rep ranges?[/quote]
Squats and legs in General
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
[/quote]
My own personal experiences have run counter to this honestly. I feel like it’s very much programming and movement dependent.[/quote]
Meh, I was just trying to get past the “if the guy says he’s doing a bodybuilder routine AND he’s doing 3x10 squats, his primary goal is probably not strength.”
But I said too much/said it poorly, and that’s what happens, lol.
That being said, I would be interested in you elaborating on that. I’ve certainly gotten stronger in several rep ranges.
Which movements have you found more benefit in higher rep ranges?[/quote]
Honestly, at this point it would be easier to list the movements that I benefit more from low rep ranges on. I think the only big one for me is the press. Benching, squatting and deads seem to progress very well with more along the 8-10 range for me, whereas pressing seems to necessitate lower reps to get used to the feel of heavier weight.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In terms of RMs, a true 6RM is about the lowest you can really build strength.
[/quote]
My own personal experiences have run counter to this honestly. I feel like it’s very much programming and movement dependent.[/quote]
[…]
That being said, I would be interested in you elaborating on that. I’ve certainly gotten stronger in several rep ranges.
Which movements have you found more benefit in higher rep ranges?[/quote]
Honestly, at this point it would be easier to list the movements that I benefit more from low rep ranges on. I think the only big one for me is the press. Benching, squatting and deads seem to progress very well with more along the 8-10 range for me, whereas pressing seems to necessitate lower reps to get used to the feel of heavier weight.[/quote]
That’s actually really interesting. As a percentage of your 1RMs, where do you end up spending your time working (when you’re in the 8-10 range)?
I realize that’s arguably an irrelevant question, but I’m curious.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
That’s actually really interesting. As a percentage of your 1RMs, where do you end up spending your time working (when you’re in the 8-10 range)?
I realize that’s arguably an irrelevant question, but I’m curious.[/quote]
I haven’t tested my 1rms in well over a year, I honestly have no idea what percentage I’m working at. I more just set weights and see how many reps I can get at them. Since I use ROM progression, when I start a cycle, I tend to be in the 10-14 rep range for 1 top set and then lose reps each cycle until I’m around 3-4 total, then I start the whole process over. While I’m in the higher/shorter portion of the ROM, I tend to be working with much higher reps than the lower portion.
hi, sorry for not replying back, thought no one was going to comment after the first reply.
i don’t really feel i need to add anything else but il explain my situation a bit better.
i am looking for size (hypertrophy) il take gains in strength of course, but not my main focus as the minute, still always trying to improve weight/reps though.
i was doing the 20 rep squat routine, which is a 3x week routine based on squats, great routine if you can hack it, and yes i am doing a 1x week split because the 20 rep squat routine does give your body a battering. i do plan to increase to a 2x week soon, PPL type routine twice over.
the intensity is high, I’m not just getting a weight i can rep out for 10, and resting, its more like getting a weight i can rep 5 in a row, then busting out the rest with a couple of breaths, up to a probably ten seconds of getting my breath for the rest in-between. I’m currently ramping sets, i took a routine from a thread called, ‘do this routine not the dumb one’ or something like that.
currently squatting like this:
warm up
acclimation reps
110kg x 10
115kg x 10
120kg x F
oh and thank you for the replies!