I have to say this thread is making me think more on this subject. I usually disregard it because my workouts are more MMA muscle endurance based, but why not? I’ll experiment on this a bit more myself and see what happens. Can anyone point me in the right direction for how Power Drive would play in this equation.
I’m getting too many hits when I search.
Can someone point me in the direction of something CT has written on the topic? I have read little tidbits here and there that he’s written, but nothing where he goes into much detail, but if there has been a thread on it in his forum, then I missed it, so if such a thread exists, please alert me. Thanks.
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Can someone point me in the direction of something CT has written on the topic? I have read little tidbits here and there that he’s written, but nothing where he goes into much detail, but if there has been a thread on it in his forum, then I missed it, so if such a thread exists, please alert me. Thanks.[/quote]
but seriously, do a search sometime.
There was a science student i talked to once who swore by the method of carbs pre-workout but not immediately after - some kind of fast protein instead.
I dismissed it b/c I was always taught differently… however w/ CT’s protocols I think he was on to something.
He was huge too
Fred Hatfield said that you shouldn’t eat for an hour after training. He thought it interfered with proper hormone release, and that blood needed to be in the muscles rather than at the gut at that point (to clear out waste products).
I have an idea anyway. Check your blood sugar after a workout. It should be up a little bit. Mine tends to go up from about 85 to about 100 by the end of my workout. Check at 30 minute intervals. When it DROPS suddenly, that means that your insulin sensitivity is back up.
My blood sugar is 100 at an hour after a workout, but 70-75 at two hours. Insulin has to have done that. That means that my optimal refueling time is after 1 hour, but before 2 hours.
WO lasting >90mins should include CHO prior to WO. Those CHO should be consumed 15-30 mins beforehand and be “simple” (dextrose = glucose) and no more than a 4-8% solution within ~10-15oz. water. Glucose is the most readily available source to be used as energy: fructose has to be converted in the liver before able to be used by muscle in the TCA cycle. Anything greater than that solutuion will take longer for the body to absorb, simple diffusion.
Insulin does not become less “sensitive” in the body during exercise, there is just less of it. With HR and BP up the body does not need to release as much. The insulin is traveling at a higher rate meaning it will circulate to most areas of the body without having to have such a high concentration within the blood stream.
If your workout does not last for 90 or more then you do not need pre-workout CHO. Just drink plenty of water.
Post-Workout you need 100-150g CHO and ~25-50g protein (depending on what you are trying to accomplish). The sooner the better. Unless I find research to tell me otherwise I will stick to this. There is a 4hr window where glycogen replenishment increases as well as preotein synthesis.
All this is based on research and books I have read while studying to become an Exercise Physiologist.
I sometimes live on the edge by going next door to the Chinaman and ordering white rice and steamed chicken. Makes life a little more enjoyable.
Am I doing the wrong thing, guys? Or have I lost my patience with attention to detail?
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I sometimes live on the edge by going next door to the Chinaman and ordering white rice and steamed chicken. Makes life a little more enjoyable.
Am I doing the wrong thing, guys? Or have I lost my patience with attention to detail? [/quote]
You’re about 36.2% away from optimal PWO nutrition. When you say “go next door” I hope you mean someone is carrying you because the lack of nutrients along that walk will cause an approximate 12.2 pound loss of lean mass depending on how far it is.
This is why you shouldn’t live your life on the edge, but rather a 1/4 mile at a time.
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I sometimes live on the edge by going next door to the Chinaman and ordering white rice and steamed chicken. Makes life a little more enjoyable.
Am I doing the wrong thing, guys? Or have I lost my patience with attention to detail? [/quote]
You’re about 36.2% away from optimal PWO nutrition. When you say “go next door” I hope you mean someone is carrying you because the lack of nutrients along that walk will cause an approximate 12.2 pound loss of lean mass depending on how far it is.
This is why you shouldn’t live your life on the edge, but rather a 1/4 mile at a time.[/quote]
chimera & Bricknyce, both of you are missing somthing in your equations. “optimal” is not the opposite of “the wrong thing”. I will boil this all down into one sentance so that you can understand it.
Overcompensation is directly related to the inverse proportion of your headsize divided by length of rest periods used during your last ramp set of close grip dead stop overhead curls or CGDSOHC’s (as I like to call them) multiplied by the average of your blood O2 saturation taken at 45 seconf intervals throughout your workout and then multiplied by amount of prespiration absorbed by a 12 x 23 inch terrycloth hand-towel during the 1st half of a 73 minute workout (which we all agree is the optimal lenght of a workout) and then added to your LBM. I know it may be combersome, but it is really accurate.
[quote]bilj wrote:
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I sometimes live on the edge by going next door to the Chinaman and ordering white rice and steamed chicken. Makes life a little more enjoyable.
Am I doing the wrong thing, guys? Or have I lost my patience with attention to detail? [/quote]
You’re about 36.2% away from optimal PWO nutrition. When you say “go next door” I hope you mean someone is carrying you because the lack of nutrients along that walk will cause an approximate 12.2 pound loss of lean mass depending on how far it is.
This is why you shouldn’t live your life on the edge, but rather a 1/4 mile at a time.[/quote]
chimera & Bricknyce, both of you are missing somthing in your equations. “optimal” is not the opposite of “the wrong thing”. I will boil this all down into one sentance so that you can understand it.
Overcompensation is directly related to the inverse proportion of your headsize divided by length of rest periods used during your last ramp set of close grip dead stop overhead curls or CGDSOHC’s (as I like to call them) multiplied by the average of your blood O2 saturation taken at 45 seconf intervals throughout your workout and then multiplied by amount of prespiration absorbed by a 12 x 23 inch terrycloth hand-towel during the 1st half of a 73 minute workout (which we all agree is the optimal lenght of a workout) and then added to your LBM. I know it may be combersome, but it is really accurate.[/quote]
Dood. Don’t give away your secrets like that, now everyone will be hyooooogee (note the double E at the end), and there will be no more need for Biotest and the forums.
I’m sort of surprised no one has mentioned GLUT4 yet. My understanding is that the increased insulin sensitivity during exercise is directly related to GLUT4 activity. I believe it is this, rather than the increased circulation that was mentioned before, that is the cause of the decreased need for insulin, which is of course in response to the high concentration of catecholamines.
Given the relative flood of GLUT4 to the cell membrane that happens during exercise, it seems that, as BBB said before, it would be most beneficial to keep insulin high before and during your workout as local vasodilation combined with high GLUT4 activity should create an environment significantly more receptive to cellular diffusion as long as insulin is present. And as far as the anaconda protocol is concerned, doesn’t it rely more on leucine mediaed insulin release than carb mediated?
[quote]Vegita wrote:
While the practical advice has been given above, Some of us with too much free time behind a keyboard have nothing better to do than to sit here and think about “optimal” approaches. I think “optimal” would be to Get through the majority of your workout on a previous meals nutrition.
This could be from 1 hour pre- to 2-3 hours depending on the components of the meal. However, you would want to strive to have the tail end of your workouts be in the red as far as nutrition being present in your system. Maybe some higher volume stuff to kill your glycogen stores at the end of a heavy workout could achieve shuch a goal without adding significantly to CNS fatigue. You get the optimal performance and intensity during the nuts and bolts of your workout and you also get the depleted glycogen spurred “supercompensation” period afterwards.
I have no scientific data to support what I say, I just think it makes sense.
V[/quote]
I always thought the following was the most enjoyable - because I always knew that I’d never be be Mr. Olympia and “ideal” and “optimal” don’t apply to me.
I follow the path of least resistance now.
[quote]siouxperman wrote:
I’m sort of surprised no one has mentioned GLUT4 yet. My understanding is that the increased insulin sensitivity during exercise is directly related to GLUT4 activity. I believe it is this, rather than the increased circulation that was mentioned before, that is the cause of the decreased need for insulin, which is of course in response to the high concentration of catecholamines.
Given the relative flood of GLUT4 to the cell membrane that happens during exercise, it seems that, as BBB said before, it would be most beneficial to keep insulin high before and during your workout as local vasodilation combined with high GLUT4 activity should create an environment significantly more receptive to cellular diffusion as long as insulin is present. And as far as the anaconda protocol is concerned, doesn’t it rely more on leucine mediaed insulin release than carb mediated? [/quote]
Too much for me to handle for a hobby.
I’m not saying everybody who works out should be losing sleep over this, but for anyone who competes at an elite level (bodybuilding, various athletics, powerlifting, etc.) or for anyone who just has an interest in the physiology of it, the optimization of training is a worthwhile topic for discussion. Especially with the knowledge of a lot of the members here. Plus, if doing something as simple as moving a shake by a couple hours or changing the composition of it a little can get you more benefit for your time, why not take note?
[quote]siouxperman wrote:
I’m sort of surprised no one has mentioned GLUT4 yet. My understanding is that the increased insulin sensitivity during exercise is directly related to GLUT4 activity. I believe it is this, rather than the increased circulation that was mentioned before, that is the cause of the decreased need for insulin, which is of course in response to the high concentration of catecholamines.
Given the relative flood of GLUT4 to the cell membrane that happens during exercise, it seems that, as BBB said before, it would be most beneficial to keep insulin high before and during your workout as local vasodilation combined with high GLUT4 activity should create an environment significantly more receptive to cellular diffusion as long as insulin is present. And as far as the anaconda protocol is concerned, doesn’t it rely more on leucine mediaed insulin release than carb mediated? [/quote]
Wanted to link this:
point is that blood sugar rises during training and seems to stay up for about an hour. Unless that’s due to a lingering effect of hormones from the workout, then it means either insulin is low, or sensitivity is low for that period.
Also, where does non-insulin mediated uptake fit in? Does GLUT4 help with non-insulin mediated uptake?
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
I always thought the following was the most enjoyable - because I always knew that I’d never be be Mr. Olympia and “ideal” and “optimal” don’t apply to me.
I follow the path of least resistance now. [/quote]
Taking a look at step 3 in your process, its obvious why you never reached Mr.Olympia status Brick, clearly you should have been going next door for Pop-Tarts.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Wanted to link this:
point is that blood sugar rises during training and seems to stay up for about an hour. Unless that’s due to a lingering effect of hormones from the workout, then it means either insulin is low, or sensitivity is low for that period.
Also, where does non-insulin mediated uptake fit in? Does GLUT4 help with non-insulin mediated uptake?[/quote]
It’s not abnormal for blood glucose to rise a bit during exercise, as the liver is stimulated to break down glycogen stores. For most people, blood glucose will probably stay pretty steady during exercise, if not rise a little (outside of extremely intense and/or prolonged exercise). GLUT4, as far as I know, is only a player in insulin mediated glucose disposal. It’s always active, but becomes much more active during exercise. GLUT4 and insulin are like two keys to the same lock, just operating from different sides of the cell membrane. One without the other doesn’t do much. I don’t know too much about non-insulin mediated glucose disposal, except that it does increase during exercise, but I couldn’t tell you the mechanisms. If you were to have abnormal rises in blood glucose with exercise, it would seem to point to an insulin production issue where the liver is producing glucose but there’s an inefficiency in shuttling it into the tissue.
[quote]siouxperman wrote:
I’m sort of surprised no one has mentioned GLUT4 yet. My understanding is that the increased insulin sensitivity during exercise is directly related to GLUT4 activity. I believe it is this, rather than the increased circulation that was mentioned before, that is the cause of the decreased need for insulin, which is of course in response to the high concentration of catecholamines.
Given the relative flood of GLUT4 to the cell membrane that happens during exercise, it seems that, as BBB said before, it would be most beneficial to keep insulin high before and during your workout as local vasodilation combined with high GLUT4 activity should create an environment significantly more receptive to cellular diffusion as long as insulin is present. And as far as the anaconda protocol is concerned, doesn’t it rely more on leucine mediaed insulin release than carb mediated? [/quote]
I’ve never heard of it before. Where’d you come across it?
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]siouxperman wrote:
I’m sort of surprised no one has mentioned GLUT4 yet. My understanding is that the increased insulin sensitivity during exercise is directly related to GLUT4 activity. I believe it is this, rather than the increased circulation that was mentioned before, that is the cause of the decreased need for insulin, which is of course in response to the high concentration of catecholamines.
Given the relative flood of GLUT4 to the cell membrane that happens during exercise, it seems that, as BBB said before, it would be most beneficial to keep insulin high before and during your workout as local vasodilation combined with high GLUT4 activity should create an environment significantly more receptive to cellular diffusion as long as insulin is present. And as far as the anaconda protocol is concerned, doesn’t it rely more on leucine mediaed insulin release than carb mediated? [/quote]
I’ve never heard of it before. Where’d you come across it?[/quote]
Originally, I got a cursory overview of it in an exercise biochemistry class. It was an interesting topic, and the professor for the class was/is my research mentor and did his PhD work in muscular metabolism. He didn’t know great detail about the mechanism, but it was interesting enough that I read up about it and found that it is a pretty important regulator in glucose disposal during exercise. As far as I understand it, muscular contraction can translocate GLUT4 from the vesicles to the plasma membrane of the cell, providing an abundance of it to react in conjunction with insulin (through a number of reactions) for facilitated glucose transport during exercise. I’ve read about it playing a role in non insulin mediated glucose transport, but haven’t seen that claim substantiated. My knowledge of it is still pretty basic, so maybe someone like BBB could shed a little more light on the subject.