I am starting to doubt the need for post workout carbs…
I don’t know how some of you guys down a drink full of dextrose with the already sweet whey protein. That is enough to make a diabetic turn over and just die.
any thoughts?
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
I definitely feel the difference between Surge Recovery and no Surge. Recovery happens faster, which means the opportunity for more workouts. And I just generally feel better after a tough workout. Not sure about being a diabetic, so while I hate suggesting people go see doctors for nutrition advice… diabetics should consult a doctor first. Comas, loss of limb, etc. aren’t things to confer with T-Nation about.
Out of curiosity, do carbs pre/during workout, as has been touted recently for bodybuilding purposes, work just as well for post workout carbs in regards to glycogen replenishment (with athletes in mind), or does the exercise negate the storage of glycogen significantly?
Glycogen replenishment can occur up to 24-36 hours post workout. I think the most current thinking is to keep post-WO carbs low because of the antagonistic hormone response to insulin due to strenuous exercise. Either the release of adrenaline or catecholamines counteract the insulin response. I don’t know where to point (as far as literature goes), but there are TONS of posts about this floating around. Most of them are on CT’s peri-WO nutrition thread. Last I checked carbs pre-WO were best and then either nothing or just protein was better post-WO. This shit changes daily though and you’ll find differing opinions online.
My personal philosophy is as long as I get my macros correct for the day and some carbs+protein pre-WO I’ll be satisfied. I have no problem eating a meal with carbs post-WO (at least 60 min after).
Is the OP’s only complaint the sweetness of the drinks? If so, you can get progressively less sweet sources of carbs:
fructose > sugar > dextrose > maltodextrin > starches (maize, oats, the stuff in Surge Workout Fuel).
but if course if you’re buying a prepared drink, then they may have additional sweeteners in it.
If the problem is a sugar crash from the drinks… you could try drinking it slower, and stretched out over a longer time.
Art Devany commented on this.
IMO, carbs are necessary to spare muscle.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]
With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.
But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Art Devany commented on this.
IMO, carbs are necessary to spare muscle.[/quote]
Spare muscle?
Is this thread about dieting? I thought it was about adding muscle.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Art Devany commented on this.
IMO, carbs are necessary to spare muscle.[/quote]
Spare muscle?
Is this thread about dieting? I thought it was about adding muscle. [/quote]
Carbs spare muscle after a workout, so your body doesn’t chew up your muscles for energy, so you can put more muscle on.
i usually have a 100g of waxy maize and 30 grams pepto pro pre workout then eat a burrito about an house after my workout. works fine for me. not an expert or anything and dont have time to look up studies and what not but honestly dude i doubt your big enough to worry about this. just make sure you eat and hour or two after your workout. its not going to matter in 5 years which is about how long it takes to build a body worth noticing.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Art Devany commented on this.
IMO, carbs are necessary to spare muscle.[/quote]
Spare muscle?
Is this thread about dieting? I thought it was about adding muscle. [/quote]
Carbs spare muscle after a workout, so your body doesn’t chew up your muscles for energy, so you can put more muscle on.[/quote]
If somoene is in a caloric surplus and doesnt do something stupid like lift weights for 4 hours straight why would he worry about going catabolic? Muscle cells grow because of adequate stimulus and a caloric surplus. We’re not talking about running marathons here.
I know that carbs are an essential part of a diet but NOT to spike insulin immediately after a workout. That was my point. Your post was too general to apply to the question in the thread.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]
With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.
But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]
What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.
For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]
With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.
But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]
What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.
For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm[/quote]
Considering the fact that you aren’t in elite shape, shouldn’t you be trying to do as much as possible to make improvements?
Why even pay attention to science or anything technical if you are going to disregard facts because theyre “only 6 months old”? The muscle is built using magic spells, right? A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Art Devany commented on this.
IMO, carbs are necessary to spare muscle.[/quote]
Spare muscle?
Is this thread about dieting? I thought it was about adding muscle. [/quote]
Carbs spare muscle after a workout, so your body doesn’t chew up your muscles for energy, so you can put more muscle on.[/quote]
well, when i was cutting (body recomp from years of carb abuse) i had no problem keeping my muscle as long as i didn’t do something crazy like a fasting workout. even if all you consume periwokout is amino acids, then your muscles are not going to be sought out for fuel.
in general though, this thread is too general. we consider the different types: athletes/fitness, strong-man/strength, body builder… before throwing down a hard and fast rule
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]
With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.
But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]
What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.
For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm[/quote]
Considering the fact that you aren’t in elite shape, shouldn’t you be trying to do as much as possible to make improvements?
Why even pay attention to science or anything technical if you are going to disregard facts because theyre “only 6 months old”? The muscle is built using magic spells, right? A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.
[/quote]
Way to side step the argument. And since I’m not in elite shape, i doubt having carbs PWO is going to be detrimental for me 
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.
[/quote]
Agreed there. that’s how I’ve gone from 20% BF to 10% BF. Now granted, I do need to find some magic pills, got any?
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
even though some protein may be sweet it doesnt mean there are alot of sugars in it?? some people are going to argue that PWO carbs are necassary and others will argue thats they arent that important. But, in my opinion PWO carbs are definitely something you need especially after a tough workout…you just have to make sure your taking the proper amount of protein/carbs in that PWO shake…and im sure a Diabetic wouldnt have a double dose of Surge Recovery after a workout…
IronWarrior[/quote]
And where is this literature coming from? Not trying to be smart.
Interesting wording you chose “bad idea”. Why would it be bad if it’s worked so well for countless people up to 6 months ago before the whole “ANACONDA Protocol”?
Perhaps it may not be seen as optimal any more, but bad?
Carbs are needed for people looking to add muscle. But consuming carbs immediately after a workout with the goal of spiking insulin is a bad idea. There is a lot a lot of new-ish literature on this topic. [/quote]
[/quote]
With the amount you spend on supplements you cant tell me you havent read the “para-workout nutrition” stuff.
But unless CT is blatantly lying to us about how catecholamine levels increase after a workout, I cant see any way how consuming carbs in an attempt to spike insulin can do anything positive for body composition.
[/quote]
What I am getting at, is why is spiking insulin PWO an awful idea for body comp, if even CT was recommending doing such 6 months ago. The human body hasn’t changed, granted the science may be giving us a better picture of things. But to say carbs PWO is a bad idea is limited thinking IMO.
For fat loss, they may not be necessary or even ideal, for gaining muscle I don’t see the harm[/quote]
Considering the fact that you aren’t in elite shape, shouldn’t you be trying to do as much as possible to make improvements?
Why even pay attention to science or anything technical if you are going to disregard facts because theyre “only 6 months old”? The muscle is built using magic spells, right? A fat loss occurs because of ritual sacrifice.
[/quote]
Way to side step the argument. And since I’m not in elite shape, i doubt having carbs PWO is going to be detrimental for me ;)[/quote]
I just think it’s too easy to move a maltodextrin/whey shake to 30 minutes pre workout instead of post workout for this to even be an issue. If something that simple can provide even 5% better results I am definitely going to do it.
Have you at least tried having a carb/whey shake pre workout as opposed to post before passing judgment?