Pretty Little Hate Machine

Training Over 35 Lifter
421

[quote]sfp wrote:

[quote]LittleStrick wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:
35lbs of armor, nice. Do you have a group you belong to? If so, do you guys/gals stage fights etc…? It looks mighty fun.[/quote]

Its not actually staged, its a sport with rules and ways to determine the winner etc. but yeah its a blast.[/quote]

Oh cool. Probably a dumb question but is the sword/shield real ? If so, that plus the armour makes for a great cardio workout, haha. I’d be afraid I’d be too competitive and try and chop a limb off.[/quote]

Well the shield is wood and metal, the sword is actually made of rattan. In the real Middle Ages squires trained with wodden swords called wasters. So we use rattan swords because the weight at certain thickness mimics the weight of swords found in the Middle Ages and yet is much safer. So far only one guy has died from fighting injuries.[/quote]

Joe, I never did any of the SCA stuff, but I did play a lot of D&D :slight_smile:
When I was a cop, back in Athens, I used to watch the local SCA do their practicing, in the student union parking lot, late at night. Looked like a lot of fun.
[/quote]

Looks like a whole lot of fun. I was reading recently where, despite most everyone’s notions that medieval swords weight 30-40 pounds, they typically weighed only a couple. Still, I have to imagine that with swinging them around at high speed, the torque alone would really make swordfighting a great wrist/forearm workout.[/quote]

There was a lot of wrestling involved in real sword fighting as well. The sword was often used as a cudgel or a staff as much as a stabbing or slashing weapon from what I’ve been reading. Very physical stuff.

422

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]LittleStrick wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:
35lbs of armor, nice. Do you have a group you belong to? If so, do you guys/gals stage fights etc…? It looks mighty fun.[/quote]

Its not actually staged, its a sport with rules and ways to determine the winner etc. but yeah its a blast.[/quote]

Oh cool. Probably a dumb question but is the sword/shield real ? If so, that plus the armour makes for a great cardio workout, haha. I’d be afraid I’d be too competitive and try and chop a limb off.[/quote]

Well the shield is wood and metal, the sword is actually made of rattan. In the real Middle Ages squires trained with wodden swords called wasters. So we use rattan swords because the weight at certain thickness mimics the weight of swords found in the Middle Ages and yet is much safer. So far only one guy has died from fighting injuries.[/quote]

Joe, I never did any of the SCA stuff, but I did play a lot of D&D :slight_smile:
When I was a cop, back in Athens, I used to watch the local SCA do their practicing, in the student union parking lot, late at night. Looked like a lot of fun.
[/quote]

Its a small world Strick because I bet I know a lot of the people you were watching.
[/quote]

That is very likely, Joe. They were a great group…and didn’t mind a 21 year old cop hanging out and watching.

423

[quote]sfp wrote:

[quote]LittleStrick wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:
35lbs of armor, nice. Do you have a group you belong to? If so, do you guys/gals stage fights etc…? It looks mighty fun.[/quote]

Its not actually staged, its a sport with rules and ways to determine the winner etc. but yeah its a blast.[/quote]

Oh cool. Probably a dumb question but is the sword/shield real ? If so, that plus the armour makes for a great cardio workout, haha. I’d be afraid I’d be too competitive and try and chop a limb off.[/quote]

Well the shield is wood and metal, the sword is actually made of rattan. In the real Middle Ages squires trained with wodden swords called wasters. So we use rattan swords because the weight at certain thickness mimics the weight of swords found in the Middle Ages and yet is much safer. So far only one guy has died from fighting injuries.[/quote]

Joe, I never did any of the SCA stuff, but I did play a lot of D&D :slight_smile:
When I was a cop, back in Athens, I used to watch the local SCA do their practicing, in the student union parking lot, late at night. Looked like a lot of fun.
[/quote]

Looks like a whole lot of fun. I was reading recently where, despite most everyone’s notions that medieval swords weight 30-40 pounds, they typically weighed only a couple. Still, I have to imagine that with swinging them around at high speed, the torque alone would really make swordfighting a great wrist/forearm workout.[/quote]

From what I understand the “average” weight for a non-ceremonial sword was between four and seven pounds.

424

[quote]DaCharmingAlbino wrote:

[quote]sfp wrote:

[quote]LittleStrick wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]scottgomez wrote:
35lbs of armor, nice. Do you have a group you belong to? If so, do you guys/gals stage fights etc…? It looks mighty fun.[/quote]

Its not actually staged, its a sport with rules and ways to determine the winner etc. but yeah its a blast.[/quote]

Oh cool. Probably a dumb question but is the sword/shield real ? If so, that plus the armour makes for a great cardio workout, haha. I’d be afraid I’d be too competitive and try and chop a limb off.[/quote]

Well the shield is wood and metal, the sword is actually made of rattan. In the real Middle Ages squires trained with wodden swords called wasters. So we use rattan swords because the weight at certain thickness mimics the weight of swords found in the Middle Ages and yet is much safer. So far only one guy has died from fighting injuries.[/quote]

Joe, I never did any of the SCA stuff, but I did play a lot of D&D :slight_smile:
When I was a cop, back in Athens, I used to watch the local SCA do their practicing, in the student union parking lot, late at night. Looked like a lot of fun.
[/quote]

Looks like a whole lot of fun. I was reading recently where, despite most everyone’s notions that medieval swords weight 30-40 pounds, they typically weighed only a couple. Still, I have to imagine that with swinging them around at high speed, the torque alone would really make swordfighting a great wrist/forearm workout.[/quote]

There was a lot of wrestling involved in real sword fighting as well. The sword was often used as a cudgel or a staff as much as a stabbing or slashing weapon from what I’ve been reading. Very physical stuff.[/quote]

Yep, for a perod of time advances in armor making including the inroduction of rivited chainmail and then later plate armor proceded faster than advances in weapons making so that a quality made chain could not be breached by the edge of a sword and only a thrust to a mailed area could kill. But you could beat them down “through” the mail breaking bones etc.

Later the hand cracnked crossbow would change all of that.

425

Cool stuff with the swords. I was a fencer in my long lost youth. Gave it up due to excessive politicking required, plus it wasn’t macho enough for a young buck. Took up karate instead. Looked into kendo after retiring from empty-handed stuff, but passed due to similar issues with fencing; maybe if I’d known about your SCA stuff though…

Btw, nice food pictures, but I’m still waiting on the fried chicken.

426

Wave 2-Cycle 1-Week 4-Day 2

Deads

5x155
5x190
5x230

3x10x230

SLDL’s

3x10x145

Standing EZ Curls

3x13x90 (+1 rep PR)

So it feels like I’m rounding my back on deads. Any suggestions? Would a belt help?

Also I’m 5’ 11" with a 30" inseam so I’m short legged, short armed and long torsoed could this be making this worse?

427

Have you taken a video from the side? It’s always hard for me to gauge what my back looks like. I think I’m arching, but my back is really fairly straight, etc.

428

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
From what I understand the “average” weight for a non-ceremonial sword was between four and seven pounds.[/quote]

Here’s the website I was reading:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm

OK, now I’m feeling really geeky. I became interested in the subject because of a “speculative fiction” series I was reading at the time.

429

[quote]sfp wrote:
Have you taken a video from the side? It’s always hard for me to gauge what my back looks like. I think I’m arching, but my back is really fairly straight, etc.[/quote]

One the first page of this thread is a video of me DLing from the side. It doesn’t look horrible to me but it does look rounded.

You might be distracted by the back ground though.

430

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Also I’m 5’ 11" with a 30" inseam so I’m short legged, short armed and long torsoed could this be making this worse?
[/quote]

Joe,

I’m the same height, with the same inseam. Having a long torso makes the deadlift my toughest lift. I’d take a look at this article:

I have to really focus on getting my back into a good hard extension and break from the floor with my quads, trying to keep my back angle constant on the ascent (with my hamstrings). When I get tired I can lose the arch in my lower back, which usually means my butt comes up without breaking the weight off the ground, turning it all into a horrible straight leg deadlift.

I’ve been doing good mornings and focusing on my form during deadlifts, it seems to help. The article suggests pulling sumo but i’m sticking to conventional for now, i’m trying to build a stronger back, not as worried about the weight im moving yet.

Good work as usual.

431

[quote]Scotto wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Also I’m 5’ 11" with a 30" inseam so I’m short legged, short armed and long torsoed could this be making this worse?
[/quote]

Joe,

I’m the same height, with the same inseam. Having a long torso makes the deadlift my toughest lift. I’d take a look at this article:

I have to really focus on getting my back into a good hard extension and break from the floor with my quads, trying to keep my back angle constant on the ascent (with my hamstrings). When I get tired I can lose the arch in my lower back, which usually means my butt comes up without breaking the weight off the ground, turning it all into a horrible straight leg deadlift.

I’ve been doing good mornings and focusing on my form during deadlifts, it seems to help. The article suggests pulling sumo but i’m sticking to conventional for now, i’m trying to build a stronger back, not as worried about the weight im moving yet.

Good work as usual.[/quote]

Oh hell yes, I can good morning the hell out of some pulls as I get close to max. I’m goign to try and keep my eyes on my form. I played with pulling sumo once and it did not feel goo on the old groin so I stopped but maybe I need to try it out again.

Part of me wonder if I’m getting my hips too low and I’m rounding because its too low for me to keep the arch but to be freaking honest I’ve never been able to find anybody willing to say just exactly how freaking low the hips should drop.

432

[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Part of me wonder if I’m getting my hips too low and I’m rounding because its too low for me to keep the arch but to be freaking honest I’ve never been able to find anybody willing to say just exactly how freaking low the hips should drop.[/quote]

I hear ya, everybody is different but trying to get my body into a good position for a deadlift is challenging. I’d refer to the book starting strength for good coverage of the basics but there is a good youtube video of how to setup.

Since my torso is long like yours I start with my shins almost touching the bar, grab the bar keeping my butt up, touch my shins to the bar, set my back into hard extension and pull. Like you it feels natural to get into a lower squat as a starting position but for me anyway its just because my lower back is the weak link in my pull. I’m trying to make it stronger and hoping my dead will climb as it strengthens.

Good luck

433

There is no exact answer to how low the hips go because it depends on your leverages.

Until the experts chime in, here’s my .02: supposedly, “everybody” rounds a little during max effort deadlifts, the key is that the back remains stable and locked, i.e. not move around, in whatever position it rounds to. (if that makes any sense) Plus it’s perfectly fine to round in the thoracic area, just not good (usually) in the lumbar area.

Based on my limited understanding to date, the only “exact” cues for the DL is to pull back, not up, off the floor. (edit: need to be driving through your heels only off the floor) Then, once you’ve broken off the floor, your hips should be moving towards the bar at all times; everything else “depends”.

Would I be upsetting you further if I told you that short legs and arms plus a long torso means you should be a big squatter? :wink:

434

No offense Scotto, but with all due respect to Rippetoe, I think the guy from Wild Iron Gym is much better:

edit: I should’ve just linked this to begin with instead of running off at the mouth.

435

No offense taken, that’s a darn good tutorial, haven’t seen it before. I’m going to try a couple of the points he raised about foot position next deadlift day!

436

Really good deadlift tutorial video. Thanks for sharing that.

The only thing I can see in your first video is your chest moves over the bar to break it off the floor. The video advocates pulling the bar back toward you as your first move rather than having your hips move too far behind you (and chest over the bar) when you break the bar. See the tutorial starting at 2 min.

I pull less than you, so take my observations with a grain of salt.

437

I don’t know if you’re rounding your back or not Joe but I’m learning all kinda stuff from these posts. Good stuff guys. Are you sacrificing your form for more weight? Might be time to just work form at a lower weight for a while.

438

Cant see the tutorial at work, Joe are you having sticking points? Using straps? Mixed Grip? Are you squeezing your shoulder blades together? What kind of shoes are you wearing?

439

[quote]hel320 wrote:
I don’t know if you’re rounding your back or not Joe but I’m learning all kinda stuff from these posts. Good stuff guys. Are you sacrificing your form for more weight? Might be time to just work form at a lower weight for a while.[/quote]

I don’t think I am hel but its always be hard for me to tell if my low back was rounded or not. I’ve just reset my 5/3/1 so I’m going to focus on form for a bit and see what happens.

440

[quote]punnyguy wrote:
No offense Scotto, but with all due respect to Rippetoe, I think the guy from Wild Iron Gym is much better:

edit: I should’ve just linked this to begin with instead of running off at the mouth.[/quote]

Watching this I don’t think my back is rounding then. maybe its that I don’t have a great arch like I see on some people but its not rounding. Still this is a great video and I’m going to work on pulling back on the bar a bit more.

Thanks.