A lot of times on this site, this statement has been said about pro bodybuilding. I am beginning to wonder if the same can be said for powerlifting.
When bodybuilding was declared “dead” is was because mass and freaky definition became the only things that the sport was about. Gone was the symmetry, friendships, and balance of the old days.
With it’s current obsession with PR’s, I am beginning to wonder if powerlifting is beginning to destroy itself with single minded objectives, very similar to bodybuilding. I believe that the current status of powerlifting is stalling the growth of the athletes.
Let me explain:
In this months powerlifting USA, herb glossbrenner lists the all time heaviest deadlifts and benches per weight class. Taking data from the 3 heaviest weight classes, Amongst the benchers, only 13 of the 75 greatest lifts had occured before 2002. that works out to about 17%.
however, amongst the deadlifts, a lift largely untouched by equipment when compared to the bench, 55 of the 75 greatest lifts, occurred before 2002. That works out to about 73%.
Is this an indicator that the sport of powerlifting has progressed nowhere? With todays modern equipment, greater knowledge of diet, better drug cycles, and supposed superior conjugate cycles, why has the less equipped lift seeminingly stunted, while the bench has grown by leaps and bounds (remember, over 83% of the greatest benches occured during the last 3 years). How superior are these new training systems compared to yester year. Maybe they aren’t better, and equipment has a whole heck of a lot of imore influence than what we thought.
I would be interested to know what others think about this.
I thought about that when I read the list…and I came to the conclusion that:
- Benching is considered cooler than anything else.
- Bench shirts work, those hydraulic rams in the ass are still illegal.
- Deadlifting is hard. (not to say benching isn’t, but deadlifting is harder on the whole body).
- Deadlifting is harder on the body–because it requires the whole body. That’s a lot of weak points to work on v. the bench where you can work on your delts, pecs, and tris.
Again, not to say benching a grand (or 800 or 900 or whatever) is easy, just easier?
Is powerlifting dead? No.
Would it be safe to assume that since deadlift numbers are not rising at the rate of squat or bench press numbers that powerlifting is on it’s deathbed? Hell no.
Most people fail to grasp the concept that a lifter is required to hit 9 lifts on meet day. So I’m talking about warmups plus 9 lifts that are more often than not 100%+ of that lifters max. At the end of the day, most people do not have the gas left to pull record breaking deadlifts. Most lifters are either squatters or benchers and maximize thier training time on those two lifts.
Lifting in a meet, you squat and bench as much as possible and try to utilize your deadlifts to round out your total to the range you want (I do so in my case).
Powerlifting is not a very popular sport and the same names break records. I would even say chemical enhancement helps more than equipment.
Bottom line, to all those who question powerlifting in any sense; Go compete. See what it takes to perform at a level on par with the better lifters. See just how much energy is spent on meet day by competitor and spectator alike. These are events done by men and women who don’t train for a living. No money motivates them, just the next PR.
Nice post, flab.
Good original question, though. I would not say it is dead in the least. There are some very active segments of powerlifting, and they could lead to more positive or more negative states of the sport. I think the WPO is doing great, as is the IPF, and neither is on the point of any kind of “death”. Perhaps they are on some sort of collision course, but I doubt it.
I think the gear may have negative effects on the deadlift. I know that benching a max single in my shirt is tougher on me than benching a max single raw, so 3 maxes in a squat suit and 3 maxes in a bench shirt may take more out of me than their raw, or semi-raw alternatives. This would mean that more lifters today are more tired going into the deadlift than in the past.
I think equipment hurts in other ways too. Most specifically, optimizing the equipment means less raw training which is bad for the dealift, IMO.
Powerlifting is not dead at all, but I definitely see how it could go that way. Let’s hope it doesn’t.
I guess everybody missed my attempt at lingual humor by calling powerlifting “dead” (I did not mean in a literal sense of the sport dying but as a play on words with the deadlift).
I have never powerlifted in a meet before, then again, I have never run a marathon, and I can understand that it is hard to run 26 miles. All sports are hard when taken to their highest levels, not just powerlifting.
However, I still find it strange that guys identify themselves as benchers or squatters, and not deadlifters. the deadlift is as much a part of the three lifts as are the other two. I would imagine that the very same physical charateristics that make a poor bencher would make a great deadlifter (ala ed coan). boosting up the deadlift has just as much an impact on your total as boosting up your bench or squat. So why not focus on it instead, especially if after constant effort on the bench and squat you being the inevitable diminishing return?
My suspicion is that since you cannot use equipment to boost up your dead, most guys focus on lifts with which they can generate large improvements in by “learning” to use their equipment. If you get stuck on the bench you can always find better equipment to assist you in breaking through your plateau. With the dead, you have no such luck.
Mike,
The other responses were right on as far as the deadlift is concerned. It is the final lift in a very long day. Therefore most if not all competitors are extremely fatigued. So, it’s not like there is a lack of progress. It’s just a slower progression compared to the other lifts.
To get a good perspective on this you would have to either compete yourself or do a mock meet at your own gym. Basically take yourself through a warm up and then three max attempts for each of the lifts. It is very taxing on the CNS. I also find that it is harder to get pumped up for it. By the time I get to my DL I am virtually out of gas and adjust my attempts based on the total I am going for.
~Ericka
I think that the focus on bench or squat may be due to the order in which the lifts occur, moreso than the equipment. Since all the lifters have access to the same equipment it seems silly to have that as a reason to claim the equipment is the reason for the focus, ie the equipment won’t give you an advantage over another equipped lifter.
As far as the records go, of course the equipment is one of the big reasons that so many top lifts in the squat and bench have occurred recently. With the equipment not providing as much assistance I think that 17% of the best lifts occurring in the past 3 years is phenomenal since 3 years doesn’t account for 17% of the total time that is being used for the best lifts.
Regards,
Sensless
I don’t think powerlifting is dead at all. But it certainly appears that equipment is largely responsible for the massive increase in the amount lifters are currently bench pressing.
I don’t buy into the argument that the best deadlift numbers have stalled due to it is the third lift in a meet. I have competed in many meets where someone is going for an American or National bench press record and took a token squat in order to avoid exhaustion. The same holds true for the deadlift - token squat and bench to be fresh for the big deadlift attempt. In my opinion the equipment simply does not assist the deadlift to the same extent as the squat and bench.
[quote]Ericka wrote:
To get a good perspective on this you would have to either compete yourself or do a mock meet at your own gym. Basically take yourself through a warm up and then three max attempts for each of the lifts. It is very taxing on the CNS. I also find that it is harder to get pumped up for it. By the time I get to my DL I am virtually out of gas and adjust my attempts based on the total I am going for.
~Ericka[/quote]
I’ve done this before…it sucks. Besides cumulative fatigue from the meet, things like injuries and bomb-outs mean that some guys may not even get onto the platform, and low attempts to solidfy squat or bench records mean that other lifters may only have 2 real attempts.
I’m not sure I agree with the comments about fatigue at the end of the meet being the cause for poor deadlift progression over the years. I’m not saying that at the end of the meet lifters aren’t tired or possibly injured, they are, but hasn’t that always been the case? I’m not convinced that fatigue is the reason for the bench records to be relatively recent and the deadlift records to better represent all decades.
It makes more sense to me that the equipment is better today than it used to be and people have a better understanding of how to get more out of their shirts today than they used to. To my knowledge, the same can’t be said to the same degree for deadlift suits. Not passing judgement or anything, cause I know this tends to be an emotional topic, but that’s just my take on the differences between the bench and the deadlift over the years-better equipment and more knowledge on how to use it.
I don’t know how this helps or anything, but I remember Louie talking about how it takes a truly intense person to deadlift. He referenced many high-class deadlifters, and the only thing besides being built to deadlift was the fact that they were passionate about deadlifting more so than the average person.
But also I look at it this way, most lifters who compete at the higher levels, from what I understand are trying to win. If you know you can solidy a victory with a lighter deadlift, why go all out and risk injury to a worn out and exhausted CNS and body. I know that if I can win with my opener or second attempt deadlift, then I am not going to go for a PR third attempt. People like Gary Frank are chasing the 3000 mark, so I’m sure he will go all out to reach that total. I may be completely off, but that is how I see it.
And I don’t think powerlifting is dead either. The past 2 weeks I have directed 3 people to the sport, and they love it. More and more people are becoming involved in my opinion. The sport is here to stay. The rules, regulations, federations, etc. may dissapate, but powerlifting, the sport, is not a competition with other lifters in my mind. It is a test of oneself to better a previous mark of achievement. Even if I never compete, powerlifting has given many people desires to break PRs and make lifts that they once thought were unattainable. And for the record, I WILL BE THE FIRST PERSON TO PULL 1,000 IN COMPETITION. That is my goal and without powerlifting I wouldn’t have it.
out of curiosity, whats the world record for deadlifts in any class? in the 165’s class?
Thanks!
Erika, thanks for chimming in.
Let’s just for arguments sake say that you are 100% correct in your analysis as to why the dead does not improve ala fatigue. How then does that explain all the push pull meets out there in which the deadlifts are not going through the roof?
Everytime I go thru PLUSA I see adds for dead/bench only meets. Yet, you don’t see big jumps in the lifts.
Also, just as some lifters would do only a bench exibition, couldn’t your arguement be laid to rest by doing a deadlift exhibition? I sure one has been done.
While I have never been in a powerlifting meet does take away from my argument, I will say that when eddy coan broke the 900lb barrier, he did so at the end of a long day, going 8 for 9 or something like that. He also totaled over 2400 that day at 220 with minimal equipment as compared to the current crop of champions like travis mash. Granted, Coan, with his short torso, long long arms, and huge freakin hands is built for the deadlift, but his performance does fly in the face of your argument.
I would really value your input on this, please write back.
lavi, the 165lb record is held by none other than equipment manufactioner extrodinaire, (John) Inzer. He pulled an amazing 780, way back in sept. of 95. It has been over 9 and 1/2 years and nobody has come 53lbs of him within the last 3 years.
Incidently, 22 of the top 25 deadlifts in that weight class occured before 2002. Much greater disparity than the upper weights.
I think that the main reasons that the squat and bench numbers are moving so fast (out of sync with the deadlift) are two fold: 1) the gear itself is improving for squats and benches, 2) trainers are now learning to modifying training to best suit the gear, a la Bill Crawford/Metal Militia; whereas previously (I assume) the habit was to train raw (and train to increase your raw lifts) most of the year and only add in gear as an extra assistance close to the meet. In some cases, lifters have probably sacrificed raw strength to get their meet lifts up, which is probably affecting the DL numbers.
Keep in mind too, the squat and bench both allow you to take advantage of the stretch-shortening cycle and stored kinetic energy in the muscles, which gives you a greater rebound out of the bottom of the lift. The deadlift starts at the bottom not allowing you to rebound at all. This is one of the major reasons I think that some people report getting 150-200lbs. out of a squat suit in the squat, yet only getting 20-50 using the same exact suit for the deadlift.
Just my opinion.
-Scott
As far as powerlifting, I feel it is alive and well. Too many people like to whine and cry longing for the “old days” like they were actually around then or something. All sports progress and gear gets more extreme, I don’t care what sport, it happens. You can either adapt and play with the new stuff, or find a federation that allows only what you want to use, be it raw, single ply, multi-ply, drugs, no drugs, whatever.
Could it be simply that there is an absolute limit to grip strength potential in the human body?
I don’t really buy the fatigue thing.
A lifter’s conditioning and how well they picked attempts on the lifts prior to the pull will have alot to do with their physical and emotional state going into the last stretch.
There are specialists in everything, including the DL. Look at the numbers coming out of WABDL. This is where you would arguably find these guys. If fatigue were a factor, specialists would be flocking to these meets and this is where you would see the numbers being pushed. (Push/pull meets.)
The answer relative to the DL numbers is quite simple. Gear.
Anybody who was around during the day of blast shirts, z-suits and Marathon wraps knows what I am talking about.
the stall in the deadlift is not due to lack of equipment
its due to grip.
once lifters get in the 900+ range grip seems to be the limiting factor.
a euro lifter is dling 400kg for 4 reps, but this does not transfer over to the platform because, again, grip.
a 1000lb dead will be done, without any advance in equipment. but it will be done by a deadlift specialist - someone who does nothing but dl’s.
i’ve no doubt that if frank focused on it, he could do 1000lb if thats all he did in a meet.
[quote]john222 wrote:
the stall in the deadlift is not due to lack of equipment
its due to grip.
once lifters get in the 900+ range grip seems to be the limiting factor.
a euro lifter is dling 400kg for 4 reps, but this does not transfer over to the platform because, again, grip.
a 1000lb dead will be done, without any advance in equipment. but it will be done by a deadlift specialist - someone who does nothing but dl’s.
i’ve no doubt that if frank focused on it, he could do 1000lb if thats all he did in a meet.[/quote]
I don’t buy that, either. Look at what some of these strongmen are using for Farmer’s walks. This is a much more taxing activity than a single rep deadlift.
There are several strongmen I know personally who spend several hours a week training their grip.
In fact, I have one of their written programs on my PC right now. It requires 3.5 hours a week just focusing on grip.
With the right coaching, you are completely unable to convince me that a DL specialist could not develop the grip strength needed to pull whatever they were capable of.