Powerlifting Drug Testing on TRT

Training Powerlifting
21

[quote]0x6a616d6573 wrote:
It is 150mg, once every two weeks. He says that is a middle dose (not high not low) and my test was 650 ng/dL after some treatment so he says that its a good dose…

I did read a lot on TRT and I do know that is pretty low, but how do I get him to prescribe more? he seems to be very conservative and he knows I have strength / bodybuilding goals…I don’t mean to turn this into TRT discussion

Could you guys also be clear if you think its medically too low of a dose or if your saying I would just see better gains with a higher dose?[/quote]

The determining factor is how well you feel. I would think getting injections more frequently would be better though. For some 650 is a good sweet spot. For others more like around 800. Its very individual. I definitely don’t see how 650 would be an issue as many naturals have levels in the 600-900 range. I can tell you right now I’d love mine to be at 650. Last time I had it checked I was at 420…and I just turned 29.

22

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:

[quote]0x6a616d6573 wrote:
It is 150mg, once every two weeks. He says that is a middle dose (not high not low) and my test was 650 ng/dL after some treatment so he says that its a good dose…

I did read a lot on TRT and I do know that is pretty low, but how do I get him to prescribe more? he seems to be very conservative and he knows I have strength / bodybuilding goals…I don’t mean to turn this into TRT discussion

Could you guys also be clear if you think its medically too low of a dose or if your saying I would just see better gains with a higher dose?[/quote]

The determining factor is how well you feel. I would think getting injections more frequently would be better though. For some 650 is a good sweet spot. For others more like around 800. Its very individual. I definitely don’t see how 650 would be an issue as many naturals have levels in the 600-900 range. I can tell you right now I’d love mine to be at 650. Last time I had it checked I was at 420…and I just turned 29. [/quote]

I feel great (I only have the shit feeling of <100 test to compare it to, but whatever) although I do tend to decline towards the end of the two weeks. At the very least I hope to get the doc to set me up with weekly shots when I see him next month.

Thank you for all the advice so far guys you are all a great help.

23

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:
Normally I would agree 100%, but given the OP, I really don’t see the problem. He isn’t very strong and he wants some meet experience, so I don’t really see why it matters. He’s not going to win his weight class, so where’s the unfair advantage?
[/quote]

The OP can get the experience he seeks in the APF. The unfair advantage is that he’ll be competing against people who assume that their competitors in the AAPF aren’t supplementing their body with testosterone. Just because he doesn’t think he’ll place doesn’t make it right. I would feel more sympathetic for the guy if there wasn’t a division that caters to him. But there is – it’s the APF; and with a prior medical clearance from the meet director the AAPF.

Most meet directors won’t test competitors because they assume (apparently incorrectly) that lifters have enough integrity in them to select the division that applies to them.

Like I said, I’ve competed in tested & untested meets. I’ve beat plenty of guys that have used drugs in untested meets and I’ve lost to other guys who are life time drug free. At the end of the day, the experience is the exact same. You still lift on the same stage and are in the same flights. If the OP’s goal is to get experience then the division he lifts in doesn’t make any difference.

24

The Dr I go to prescribes 200 test E every other week, I know other guys getting the same dose, so this sound about right. As far as the comp/meet I personaly would just be honest, if you get medical clearance great, but if not, I would be honest with the guys running the meet. They will let you compete either way, just not place. At your dose it may not show up, but man up, and be honest anyway. Goodluck

25

Guys I thought it was an APF/AAPF but I was looking at the wrong schedule its USAPL, I edited my main post.

USAPL says that TRT or not the drug testing is the same and there are no exemptions.

I want to do it anyway, just to experience a meet, as this is really my only opportunity. I can accept the change if getting a positive test…I’m not trying to break records, just to have fun.

Should I sign up for it?

26

Check out UPA, they don’t test and have meets in Wisconsin.

27

[quote]0x6a616d6573 wrote:
Guys I thought it was an APF/AAPF but I was looking at the wrong schedule its USAPL, I edited my main post.

USAPL says that TRT or not the drug testing is the same and there are no exemptions.

I want to do it anyway, just to experience a meet, as this is really my only opportunity. I can accept the change if getting a positive test…I’m not trying to break records, just to have fun.

Should I sign up for it?[/quote]
Yes. Go do your meet and stop worrying about it.

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^^This^^

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[quote]frankjl wrote:
The OP can get the experience he seeks in the APF. The unfair advantage is that he’ll be competing against people who assume that their competitors in the AAPF aren’t supplementing their body with testosterone. Just because he doesn’t think he’ll place doesn’t make it right. I would feel more sympathetic for the guy if there wasn’t a division that caters to him. But there is – it’s the APF; and with a prior medical clearance from the meet director the AAPF.

Most meet directors won’t test competitors because they assume (apparently incorrectly) that lifters have enough integrity in them to select the division that applies to them.

Like I said, I’ve competed in tested & untested meets. I’ve beat plenty of guys that have used drugs in untested meets and I’ve lost to other guys who are life time drug free. At the end of the day, the experience is the exact same. You still lift on the same stage and are in the same flights. If the OP’s goal is to get experience then the division he lifts in doesn’t make any difference.[/quote]

This is where I stand.
Even if one could ‘get away’ with lifting in a tested division; they are willfully violating the spirit of the competition. How a person can ‘rationalize’ respecting themselves after that is beyond me. I suspect behaving in such a manner leads to erectile issues.

30

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

This is where I stand.
Even if one could ‘get away’ with lifting in a tested division; they are willfully violating the spirit of the competition. How a person can ‘rationalize’ respecting themselves after that is beyond me. I suspect behaving in such a manner leads to erectile issues.
[/quote]

This is the only way to look at this.

Note that earlier the OP mentions one of the reasons he doesn’t want to lift untested is because he will be crushed by the juice monkeys. So the solution is to lift against the clean guys, even though he is not clean, (and there is no debating this point, he’s taking exogenous test,) for the reason that he will be more competitive. How is this not simply cheating and cowardice?

O.P., don’t be a cheat and a coward, you are using steroids, compete untested or not at all.

31

I still think you guys are blowing this out of proportion. Just a guy taking TRT who wants to try a powerlifting meet. I mean it’s not like he’s got a 700lb deadlift from microdosing test and wants to beat up on some natties lol.

What are the numbers you want to hit OP?

32

And another thing, what makes you guys think he wouldn’t pass any test anyway? He said in the OP his natural levels were less than 100… I don’t see what the big deal is.

33

[quote]csulli wrote:
And another thing, what makes you guys think he wouldn’t pass any test anyway? He said in the OP his natural levels were less than 100… I don’t see what the big deal is.[/quote]

That’s not how testing works. They test for the metabolites of exegenous compounds, not whether your T levels are within “normal” limits. Since it is impossible to know where someone would fall in the spectrum, you can’t use T levels alone as a measure of doping.

Second, the whole point of having a tested fed doesn’t rest on the presumption that all competitors are coming to the table with approximately the same amount of testosterone. Rather, like most athletic competitions, it rests on the presumption that all competitors come to the table with a combination of their own natural talents, strengths and weaknesses, and their own training experience and methodologies.

I’m sorry OP has low test levels. That sucks. Some of us have shit leverages. Some of us started late in training. Some of us have small hands. Some of us have rickety joints. Everyone has their own weaknesses.

There’s simply know way to know what effect, if any, the TRT will have on OP’s performance. That’s the whole reason there are tested and un-tested feds.

It’s kind of upsetting that so many people are ok with this.

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[quote]csulli wrote:
And another thing, what makes you guys think he wouldn’t pass any test anyway? He said in the OP his natural levels were less than 100… I don’t see what the big deal is.[/quote]

In the USAPL he would be cheating by definition. I’m not saying there’s anything illegitimate about his TRT, but if he competes in the USAPL he will have to sign a form asserting he is not taking exogenous hormones, so right up front he has to lie to get into the meet.

The fact that he isn’t strong and likely wouldn’t be tested is really of no moment, nor is the fact that he’s on a low dose. Likelihood of detection has nothing to do with it. If you think there is no moral problem with rolling the dice and hoping you don’t get caught, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

But make no mistake, OP would be cheating by competing in a drug-tested meet, and he would have to lie to enter the meet.

35

I can’t believe the horseshit replies you are getting to this. Oh wait, yes I can.

IPF federations (USAPL is one) are drug tested. They are not “drug free”. If you have a medical requirement to take a banned substance (not an illegal substance, a substance banned for your particular sport) then you have a process by which you can still compete.

You can apply for a theraputic use exemption (TUE). Sounds easy but you have to get all your ducks in a row including pre-TRT blood test results and current results plus have your doctor fill out a form. Each country may be different so go check out the USAPL site and find the link to your WADA sanctioned drug testing organisation, whatever that is in the US. You should be able to find the forms and directions there.

On the other hand, you could just go ahead and compete. At the doses you are taking you are not gaining an advantage over a normal healthy person of your sex, age and weight. I doubt that it would show up on a test as they do not test for “testosterone” or the product you are taking. Without getting all CSI about it they have to use some very, very expensive equipement to determine if your testosterone is plant based (which is what all injectables are made from) and not human testo.

What they check for in your urine sample is the ration of testosterone to epitestosterone. If it’s over 4:1 they might go and do the further tests. At your level of TRT it would not show up.

However, if a USAPL is the closest and most convenient meet, then it probably would be best to go through the red tape and get a TUE. Yes, its a pain, especially for a beginner lifter, but it will ease your mind and avoid any extra stress. Its like filling in your tax return forms even though you did not make any money for the year. A pain, a drag but you can rest easy.

Full props go to you for wanting to compete. You will be doing something that most gym goers never do: walking the walk and putting it on the line in front of your peers. You will have a great time. Do it.

36

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
And another thing, what makes you guys think he wouldn’t pass any test anyway? He said in the OP his natural levels were less than 100… I don’t see what the big deal is.[/quote]

That’s not how testing works. They test for the metabolites of exegenous compounds, not whether your T levels are within “normal” limits. Since it is impossible to know where someone would fall in the spectrum, you can’t use T levels alone as a measure of doping.
[/quote]
Ah okay that makes sense.

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I’m sorry OP has low test levels. That sucks. Some of us have shit leverages. Some of us started late in training. Some of us have small hands. Some of us have rickety joints. Everyone has their own weaknesses.[/quote]
Um… I see what you’re saying lol, but I don’t really think that’s comparable. You can overcome leverages, a late start, small hands, and rickety joints with the right kind of hard work. Good luck doing sweet fuck all about having a sub 100 test level without a script.

[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
It’s kind of upsetting that so many people are ok with this.[/quote]
I just don’t get why it matters to anyone. No one here is setting any real records. Ostensibly the only reason I can see for us to go to a meet is to legitimize our lifts and keep getting stronger for ourselves. Sure it’s fun competing against other people, but if you’re honest with yourself doesn’t everyone here assume they’re gonna get beaten by some pincushion on 2000mg a week anyway? I mean you’re just not gonna beat those guys if they even half know what they’re doing.

Does anyone want the bullshit trophies? What do they matter? How many times have you seen some 50 year old dude pay to enter 3 different classes and leave with 3 first place trophies for being the only person in all of them? It doesn’t mean anything. The only meaningful part of doing a meet is the numbers you can personally walk away with.

37

I am in the same boat as the OP. Here is the thing OP. Since you are on TRT I presume you are 50ish. You could win your weight/age group by nothing more than lack of competitors. Now lets say they did decide to test you and you failed. Other Feds are starting to say "you failed there, so you can’t compete in our fed either.: Okay so you try it and you love it and want to continue, but say the fed like NASA you could compete in won’t let you now because of your failure under USAPL. NASA tests and it must be under 6:1. Don’t as me what the ratio represents; i am still trying to get someone at NASA to respond to emails.

If I am going to try to compete I am just going to wait until I can get to an untested fed’s meet. USAPL would be really convenient, they have several meets a year within 50 miles. But it is not worth it to me.

But I would not give up the TRT for a plastic trophy and the thrill of victory. The TRT makes me feel better daily, not just for a brief moment in time.

38

This is ridiculous, it’s a guy that wants to try out a meet, period, he’s not going to win anything, he’s not over dosing on test, and hiding it, he just wants to try a meet. He’s angered the victem mentality crowd, where everyone’s cheating if they don’t suck as bad as me. What about women, you want to take it this far, as a trainer, I know that women that are on the pill are weaker than women that aren’t on the pill, should we test for that. Should the OP go off test for a year, and put his health at risk, because him placing last in a tested meet, is going to what, hurt some tested guys vagina, by the sound of it, sounds like more guys here should be running some test, so they can man up, and let the OP lift.
I realize at a high level, how important this is, I get it, but this isn’t that. What ever happened to common sense, in sports, in life, common sense will usually give you the answer your looking for, but people loose sight of this, when they get caught up, with to many details that don’t pertain to the actual issue at hand

Op, if it’s a small meet, like it sounds, just be honest with the organizers, tell them your story, and that you don’t want to place, just particapate, have some fun, and see what a meet feels like. I’m sure they’ll understand, and you’ll feel like a man for being honest. Goodluck

39

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
This is ridiculous, it’s a guy that wants to try out a meet, period, he’s not going to win anything, he’s not over dosing on test, and hiding it, he just wants to try a meet. He’s angered the victem mentality crowd, where everyone’s cheating if they don’t suck as bad as me. What about women, you want to take it this far, as a trainer, I know that women that are on the pill are weaker than women that aren’t on the pill, should we test for that. Should the OP go off test for a year, and put his health at risk, because him placing last in a tested meet, is going to what, hurt some tested guys vagina, by the sound of it, sounds like more guys here should be running some test, so they can man up, and let the OP lift.
I realize at a high level, how important this is, I get it, but this isn’t that. What ever happened to common sense, in sports, in life, common sense will usually give you the answer your looking for, but people loose sight of this, when they get caught up, with to many details that don’t pertain to the actual issue at hand

Op, if it’s a small meet, like it sounds, just be honest with the organizers, tell them your story, and that you don’t want to place, just particapate, have some fun, and see what a meet feels like. I’m sure they’ll understand, and you’ll feel like a man for being honest. Goodluck[/quote]

This is kind of a convoluted post, but if your last paragraph is where you stand, I agree, it’s best not to lie. Not sure how anyone argues with that.

Unfortunately, the bit before that about a wink and a nod with the meet organizer is not going to fly at a USAPL meet.

Still not getting the disconnect here, it’s a sport, there are standards and you have to follow the rules.

W/r/t the “victim mentality” as you put it: let me get this straight, the people who are saying he should (1) tell the truth and (2) follow the rules of the sport he wants to participate in have the “victim mentality,” but the people whining about the rules and how the poor guy whose balls have given up the fight can’t lift in the USAPL don’t? You got it backward friend.

40

Haha. I don’t get this. His only options ARE NOT to: A) stop taking TRT or B) lie and compete in a tested fed with his fingers crossed. There are, in fact, other options. He can C) competed in a tested fed w/TRT or D) not compete at all. This isn’t an either/or proposition. This isn’t life or death. He has a lot of options.

And, the option he is considering is cheating. Cheating doesn’t become not cheating because the competition is inconsequential to him. Consequential ethics don’t work in sports, because its all inconsequential in an existensial sense - its only value/consequence lies in the experience of the participant and the spectator. If the outcome is inconsequential to him, he shouldn’t ruin the experience for those who find subjective consequence in their own performance. Little league “doesn’t matter” in the grand scheme of things, but I would never encourage a 10 year old to break the rules of little league.

Cheating also doesn’t become not cheating because, in theory, you’ve ended up where the other competitors are. If I’m a slow fuck who enters a marathon, and I use a segway for 10 miles to catch up to the pack and still lose - guess what, I cheated. It doesn’t become not cheating because I lost. And, it doesn’t become not cheating because I was born with asthma and some gimpy legs. Life isn’t fair.

Also, btw, the only person with a “victim mentality” is the person who rationalizes that its ok to take TRT and lie about it because he is disadantaged by genetics. I can’t think of a better example of false victim rationalization. Actually complaining about cheating doesn’t give someone a “victim mentality.” It just means his or her sense of ethics aren’t all out of whack. As I said above, sneaking by in a tested fed is not a life or death situation. He should man up, and get a waiver or participate in the tested fed.