Any and all feedback is much appreciated on these… My power cleans have come on a lot recently (hitting 120kg easily all the time now), but my power snatch has moved nowhere. I’m much stronger than I was 2 years ago, and still power snatching roughly the same (squat 225kg and deadlift 260kg belt only for both currently). I really think I should be hitting much more given my strength levels.
So… what can I do??
Here’s a vid;
Power Snatch:
60kg x2
65kg x1
68kg x1
70kg x1
First off, congrats on what looks like an awsome gym to train at. Second, as soon as i read 225k back squat, that told me that you should be able to clean 180k, ideally. And if that were the case, then you should hit 144k on snatch, again ideally. Those numbers would be with very good form, and some luck. But even with okay form you should be hitting around 160 and 125k with a back squat like that. But from the squats in your video, it looks like youre preforming a powerlifting squat vs. an olympic squat, and if you wanna power lift too, that’s fine, but it has very little carry over into your olympic lifts. From your video, it looks like you never get your knees back far enough to allow a proper bar path, which allows the bar to continually accelerate through out the lift. Gaining some extra flexibility in your hamstrings should help.
Also, it looks like you have a tendency to go to your heels when the bar is just below your knees, again due to the potential flexibility issue, but when you go to your heels the is a profoundly slower response from your hamstrings in snapping your knees back into proper position for your second pull or final phase, whatever, which causes improper acceleration, wrong muscles to be used and an overall weaker lift that you would be capable of. If that didn’t make sense or you have any other questions just ask, hope that helped, and good luck.
The gym’s pretty amazing alright… As well as the platform and Eleiko gear, there’s a mono lift, ER racks and benches and a ton of Leoko calibrated powerlifting bars and plates.
(I am a powerlifter by the way… I just like being good at everything… I’ve started crossfitting recently and have always played about with power cleans but never really got anywhere with snatches).
[quote]WolfPackofOne wrote:
First off, congrats on what looks like an awsome gym to train at. Second, as soon as i read 225k back squat, that told me that you should be able to clean 180k, ideally. And if that were the case, then you should hit 144k on snatch, again ideally. Those numbers would be with very good form, and some luck. But even with okay form you should be hitting around 160 and 125k with a back squat like that. But from the squats in your video, it looks like youre preforming a powerlifting squat vs. an olympic squat, and if you wanna power lift too, that’s fine, but it has very little carry over into your olympic lifts. From your video, it looks like you never get your knees back far enough to allow a proper bar path, which allows the bar to continually accelerate through out the lift. Gaining some extra flexibility in your hamstrings should help. [/quote]
Thanks for the reply man. Here’s a vid of a 220kg squat from training a couple of weeks ago, I don’t think it’s quite the “powerlifting squat” most people think of when they hear that phrase, but it’s not a typical high bar oly squat by any means. I’d say 200 would go high bar anyway, what does that say I should do??
So I need to get my knees back further and stay more on the middle of my foot? Does the rest of the lift look broadly ok?
Thanks again!
The gym sounds great, if im ever in Ireland I’ll have to check it out, I love training with eleiko… Not a bad squat, could use just a little more depth and think of changing directions quickly at the bottom, dont bounce, but use the flex in the bar to get you out of the hole… Getting your knees back will help, but dont really concentrate on doing it during your lift, it will drive you crazy and throw your form off.
Just work on your flexibility and know that there is a difference in the rhythm of the snatch and the clean. But other than that your looking pretty good. Keeping your arms straight, finishing your pull and not stomping your feet. In reference to your predicted numbers, I go with the old eastern block method. With good technique, you should be able to clean 80% of your maximal back squat, roughly, a few things can change that number. And as a general rule or guideline, you should snatch roughly 80% of your clean. Hope that helps and good luck with that cross fit, it can be brutal
the snatch looks good, as though you could do more and just catch it a bit lower. Be sure to keep pulling “up” hard with your elbows and wrists. dont kick it out the front with your hips as much and keep that bar close. apart from that just keep doing it for a bit and your CNS will get used to it and unlock some power eqivocl to your BkSq.
-chris
When the bar reaches the power position (approximately mid-thigh to top of thigh), you are on your heels. This inhibits your leg extension since the force vector points backwards as well as up. It must be nearly vertical. Have a coach teach you how to contract your lats to keep your balance on the balls of your feet when you reach the power position. Hope this helps
This thread reminds me how much of a noob I am at this sport.
The bar should come towards you slightly off the floor. In the videos it looks like the bar is coming out around your knees, so you lose momentum/speed and put the bar in a less efficient pulling position. Off the floor, think of keeping the shoulders in front of the bar while knees and hips come back (just pushing with the legs). I also agree with WolfPack that your squat style doesn’t really have as much carryover to the oly lifts as a high bar upright squat.
Guys, thanks for all the comments. Pushed for time now so will reply properly later/tomorrow, but I took the knee position comment on board and re-tried today. I rock back onto my heels viciously in this video, but I think the positions are improved and once I learn to keep the bar over mid foot I should get some more weight on the bar.
Your just slow in the 2nd pull from what I can see. It takes a lot of Power Snatch’s to really get it. Once you crack on to say near 500-600 repetitions done I GURANTEE you will be A LOT BETTER. So hammer out loads of doubles and triples. Go to a 3-4 heavy singles every 3rd or 4th session. Overall your technique is very reasonable.
Look at this for instance:
That ws me 2yrs ago, a bit slow, not attacking the bar much during the middle
Now this is me 3months ago:
Much faster through the middle.
Also your possibly maybe too fast off the floor. It’s much harder for most people to accellerate a bar if it’s already moving fast. Coupled with the relatiavely lack of actual Power Snatching you can’t expect a big lift yet. You need to get a few hundred reps in and I gurantee by then your Power Snatch will be a lot better.
Another thing to note is that can be faster in the squat to receive the bar.
Get some limit videos down and that will show you where your going wrong mate. My 105kg fails were just a bit too heavy. I couldn’t stop and reverse the change of directin when it’s that low. But 104kg I was fine.
120Kg PC is good, congrats! That should give you at least a 88-90kg Power Snatch and thats on the LOW side, 80% of 120 is 96kg!
WolfPackofOne a 220kg back squat DOES NOT equal a 180kg Clean. Strength is nothing without technique in OL terms. Otherwise the strongest squats with no technique would be lifting the most and that is clearly not the case. But if you OLifting and say 130/155 I can bet you front squat at least 160kg…
Hanley I’m suprised you don’t OLift with the Irish guys! Just get more OLifting in and I can see you getting 90-95 by the end of the year.
Koing
Cheers Koing!! I knew you’d be along.
Attacking the bar in the middle is one thing I’ve really noticed making a difference from watching Barry and Sami train (I think I saw vids of them training in your gym in London?!?). The speed they have their is 1,000,000x better than mine.
RE: training with them - I just don’t have time and it’s not practical at the moment for me because the gym they all train outta in Dublin closes downstairs at 7pm. The absolute max time I’d get in there after work is 1 hour, and that includes warm ups etc. That and I’m still working hard on powerlifting and some crossfitting means my schedule’s jammers!! I have 12 weeks free during the summer, and it’ll be after powerlifting national champs too so I might just bite the bullet and go for it, having said I would for the last 2 years haha!
I did a bit more today with them, 60 x2, 65 3x2. Concentrated on getting the weight in the middle of my foot more and it definitely helped. Everything felt a lot smoother and more natural. In the last 3 days I’ve done;
DAY 1 (Sun) - 60 x2, 65 x1, 68 x1, 70 x1
DAY 2 (Mon) - 60 x1, 65 x1, 70 x1, 72 x1, 75 5x1
DAY 3 (Tue)- 60 x2, 65 3x2
Is that too much? Won’t get to power snatch again til Friday, planning on working to a near max attempt then. And I’ll have access to bumpers and good bars on Sunday so I’ll take an actual max then and see what happens. I’ll be sure to get vids.
Any tips for attacking the middle of the lift, or is it just something that’s gonna have to come with practice?
[quote]Koing wrote:
WolfPackofOne a 220kg back squat DOES NOT equal a 180kg Clean. Strength is nothing without technique in OL terms. Otherwise the strongest squats with no technique would be lifting the most and that is clearly not the case. But if you OLifting and say 130/155 I can bet you front squat at least 160kg…
Koing[/quote]
Maybe I was unclear… I completely agree with you, the stronger the squat doesnt mean the stronger the clean bc technique and strength in the proper positions has much more to do than just strength period, as i said, a powerlifting squat has very little carry over to the o-lifts, but, if youre doing a legit o-squat, and your technique is sound, you should ideally with good technique, hit roughly 80% of your back squat in your clean and jerk. I am basing this off of the early eastern block teachings and my own experience with the lifts… no aggression, just making myself clear
Koing, it looks like you swing the bar out a bit when you make contact with your hips.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
Cheers Koing!! I knew you’d be along.
Attacking the bar in the middle is one thing I’ve really noticed making a difference from watching Barry and Sami train (I think I saw vids of them training in your gym in London?!?). The speed they have their is 1,000,000x better than mine.
RE: training with them - I just don’t have time and it’s not practical at the moment for me because the gym they all train outta in Dublin closes downstairs at 7pm. The absolute max time I’d get in there after work is 1 hour, and that includes warm ups etc. That and I’m still working hard on powerlifting and some crossfitting means my schedule’s jammers!! I have 12 weeks free during the summer, and it’ll be after powerlifting national champs too so I might just bite the bullet and go for it, having said I would for the last 2 years haha!
I did a bit more today with them, 60 x2, 65 3x2. Concentrated on getting the weight in the middle of my foot more and it definitely helped. Everything felt a lot smoother and more natural. In the last 3 days I’ve done;
DAY 1 (Sun) - 60 x2, 65 x1, 68 x1, 70 x1
DAY 2 (Mon) - 60 x1, 65 x1, 70 x1, 72 x1, 75 5x1
DAY 3 (Tue)- 60 x2, 65 3x2
Is that too much? Won’t get to power snatch again til Friday, planning on working to a near max attempt then. And I’ll have access to bumpers and good bars on Sunday so I’ll take an actual max then and see what happens. I’ll be sure to get vids.
Any tips for attacking the middle of the lift, or is it just something that’s gonna have to come with practice?[/quote]
Thats fine, your not liited by your strength or power with your 120K PC! The Day 3 is very little volume. I’d up it by at least 2-3sets. Yes max out on Fridayand record it, you find out a lot by how you fail your lifts.
Yeah Barry, Rami, Chyahal (totally hacked up the spelling) and Paudie came to stay at my house and train at the Woking gym. I trained with them for one day as I was on holiday. It’s just technique and practice.
[quote]krayon wrote:
Koing, it looks like you swing the bar out a bit when you make contact with your hips. [/quote]
I’m working on that. Thats one of my negative points about my lifting, in my bid to be aggressive with the bar it comes away from me. I need to be moving more up and bend my arms a bit earlier as I keep my arms straight for too long. This is more noticeable on my Cleans more so then my Snatchs.
BUT my real issue is nailing the Jerk properly…which is a never ending battle…
Koing
I have the same problem and I always end up chasing the bar when I start going heavy. I hate how I know I can lift it high enough to get under, but it’s so far out that I end up missing it.
I always lose the bar behind and rarely ever in front unless the Snatch is far too heavy!
It swings out and loops over me at the top…but the end result is I lose the Snatch. I rarely lose Cleans no matter the swing though…
Keeping it closer makes it much more consistent and easier to lift.
Koing
[quote]dfreezy wrote:
The bar should come towards you slightly off the floor. In the videos it looks like the bar is coming out around your knees, so you lose momentum/speed and put the bar in a less efficient pulling position. Off the floor, think of keeping the shoulders in front of the bar while knees and hips come back (just pushing with the legs). [/quote]
I noticed the same thing. I had this same exact problem. What helped me tremendously was moving about 2 inches closer to the bar during my set up. Suddenly, I’m snatching better. Also, perhaps try keeping your butt lower and focus on keeping your chest up. This will require some flexibility as others have mentioned. Then, as freezy said, focus on just pushing with the legs while keeping the angle of your back relative to the ground the same.
[quote]
I also agree with WolfPack that your squat style doesn’t really have as much carryover to the oly lifts as a high bar upright squat. [/quote]
Meh, squats are squats.
Thanks again for all the tips so far lads.
I tore a callus last week and it got infected so gripping the bar was extremely painful, I kept snatching but they were all fugly as a result. Today was the first day I could grip relatively pain free. Here’s the result
70kg x2
I think my form’s regressed a bit. Start position’s better imo, I’ve got my knees back more and my hips a bit lower, I think I extend relatively well, but am still rocking back onto my heels. That catch STINKS. I think I’m splitting too wide, and instead of sitting back a bit I’m going down and coming forward as a result.
Once more, thoughts and criticisms much appreciated!
Looks pretty solid, better start position.
You lack the finish at the top end of the Snatch. Your sort of still pressing it out a bit. You need to tear it up at the end. THROW THE WEIGHT UP THERE and PULL YOUSRELF DOWN.
Post up heavier lifts so we can see whats up. Your receive position is high. Finish lower even if it’s light. You will get use to hitting the same position when it’s heavier as it sure as hell won’t go higher. The issue is the change of speed to the receive position.
It’s coming along!
Koing
The key to completing heavier lifts is being able to support the weight in a proper catch phase. Make sure that you are getting enough glute load and lower back strengthening to be able to take the lift to itâ??s proper receiving position.
Suggestion heavy Full ROM overhead squats