I am going to incorporate the power clean into my routines hoping that it will produce great increases in mass and strength.
In terms of the procedure for this exercise, I am not sure about the concentric phase (if there is one). I have seen articles recommend lowering the weight with control before cleaning it again (eccentric phase). However, I have also read articles in which the movement is eccentric only, and after the catch the barbell is allowed to fall (this would be 1 rep).
ANyone know the best way to do it for Mass or strength?
[quote]trap_builder wrote:
I am going to incorporate the power clean into my routines hoping that it will produce great increases in mass and strength.
In terms of the procedure for this exercise, I am not sure about the concentric phase (if there is one). I have seen articles recommend lowering the weight with control before cleaning it again (eccentric phase). However, I have also read articles in which the movement is eccentric only, and after the catch the barbell is allowed to fall (this would be 1 rep).
ANyone know the best way to do it for Mass or strength?
THanks in advance[/quote]
You’ve got concentric and eccentric backwards! The humanity! There are pros and cons both ways, but if your using it to train for a sport, or to improve the lift itself, let it drop-no controlled eccentric-most of the time.
I have heard that if your strong and fast, deadlifts are bad for sports/power. I think this can be eliminated by dropping the weight and not doing the negative.
Anyway, I could see myself doing cleans with or without an eccentric at different times. Five quick power cleans with eccentrics are fine, but a single maximal power clean-I’d let it drop.
There really is no value in the eccentric phase in regard to gains, (except maybe the portion where the movement is the eccentric portion of a reverse curl, and with the weight you should be using I don’t think you’ll be lingering in this zone!) much like there is no real eccentric in a deadlift. I usually do a controlled drop, especially in my current gym where there are no bumper plates.
Side rant: I hate you fuckers who drop the dumbbells! Don’t tell me that shit is too heavy to put down properly, you are just too weak! Side rant over.
I’d like the opinion of some coaches out there, are deads not that useful for power that would be useful in sports? Powercleans are explosive, but I’ve been of the opinion that deads are too if you are trying to lift the weight fast. Coaches?
This is a great movement. When I perform them I always let the bar drop. I do five sets of five reps. Anymore reps than five and I seem to get a bit sloppy with my technique.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
This is a great movement. When I perform them I always let the bar drop. I do five sets of five reps. Anymore reps than five and I seem to get a bit sloppy with my technique.[/quote]
Affirmative.
I am on 10 sets of 5 with 50-60% 1RM for explosive strength / interval training 2x / week. Love it.
Yes, let the bar drop. The only thing I see coming from a slow eccentric is injury.
anyone can do controlled eccentrics in the deadlift using a stiff legged motion with mid level intensities. in the powerclean it is much more difficult because of the positioning of the arms, just try to control the weight. laters pk
You will not gain much direct mass doing powercleans, this might get a rise out of a few, but I feel that it is the truth. I have seen quiet a few people lose a great deal of size while concentrating on the olympic lifts. However, they did improve in other physical qualities.
I dont mean to hi-jak…
But, if I were to include cleans into my routine, when would I do that? (as in like what muscle group (day) do most people put them into?) Because they use more than one muscle group.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
is a power clean from “floor to floor”, or is a power clean from hang position up and back to hang?[/quote]
either, technically its from the floor, but many athletes, including people on football programs insist on doing it fram the hips, as they beleive it requires more upperbody explosive strength, and it tends to be much safer, esp for those not experienced with the lift
i reccomend that you first learn from the hip, practice pulls from the floor, and then bring it together
From what I’ve read here at T-Nation, powercleans are not as effective in building mass as squats and deadlifts.
They have their place. Seems to me they are more about explosiveness than mass building.
[quote]Major Dan wrote:
From what I’ve read here at T-Nation, powercleans are not as effective in building mass as squats and deadlifts.
They have their place. Seems to me they are more about explosiveness than mass building.[/quote]
this isn’t me jumping on you! This is me asking a question!
Okay. But if muscles respond with more strength (I’m not putting that well…), and the WestSide guys do a lot of explosive type stuff to build speed which improves strength…what would be the problem?
[quote]bamit wrote:
You will not gain much direct mass doing powercleans, this might get a rise out of a few, but I feel that it is the truth. I have seen quiet a few people lose a great deal of size while concentrating on the olympic lifts. However, they did improve in other physical qualities. [/quote]
I would say that I got some mass gains in the traps and biceps when doing say 5X5 power cleans. Granted they’re not supposed to be for the biceps.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
I dont mean to hi-jak…
But, if I were to include cleans into my routine, when would I do that? (as in like what muscle group (day) do most people put them into?) Because they use more than one muscle group.[/quote]
You are correct that these will hit several muscle groups - essentially a DL followed by a front squat. Since I normally train a total body program, these replace several exercises on the days that I work them in. If I had to choose, I’d probably alternate these with a DL.
BTW, for me, power cleans followed by a push press for reps has been a fairly effective exercise in a total body program.
Joe Weider-
I’m not saying powercleans are bad. Just pointing out something I came across.
Here’s a quote from Louie Simmons (from ‘How to do the Squat’):
“Everyone thinks the Olympic lifts are so quick. While your cleans at 60% look fast, so do our box squats at 60%. The athlete who can power clean 400 uses 240(60%). The lifter who can squat 800 uses 480 (60%). Who do you really think would be faster and stronger? Compared to a powerlifter, an Olympic lifter can?t squat with the Sunday paper. A kid that can hang clean 400 would look frail to an 800 squatter. And don?t forget, in Olympic lifting, as the bar is raising, the lifter is lowering himself, making it appear that they are moving the bar at great speed. Olympic lifting is the biggest bust in the United States. We have not placed a single lifter on the “A” list, yet strength coaches still advocate the Olympic lifts.”
Power cleans for strength and mass…Please. There is no difinitive proof olympic lifts do anything in regards to speed or strength. It’s a lift that you cannot use a maximum load with (remember Time under tension). Not to mention the other uaseless olympic lifts that most people can’t perform due to their rediculous nature. I will put a world class powerlifter against a world class Olympic lifter any day when comparing strength or speed in a variety of areas. In order to get faster one must get stronger. Your relative strength must be increased. Olympic lifts are among the least effective for athletes looking to increase speed or strngth.
Not this again about olympic weightlifters not being strong… time to bust out “the pic”. I can’t remember this lifter’s name but he’s under 200 pounds and squatted that (~300kg I think) for a double the day before winning gold.
Obviously I’m not questioning Louie Simmon’s knowledge but he is clearly using some hyperbole there… show me a guy who can “hang clean 400” who looks/is frail compared anyone! BS.
I guarantee if you strip the suit/belt and wraps off of the supposed 800 pound powerlifting squatter (650 raw?), the 400 hang clean guy can squat just as much or more, rock bottom. Just watch the ironmind videos if you want to see just how strong the oly guys truly are…